David Cameron on Tuition Fees

[Skola]

"Recession has been the perfect opportunity for the tories to push through their age old agenda of cuts to public funding and moves towards more privitisation."

This is disingenuous. Although you might think Tories are some evil cunts who enjoy to make working people's lives miserable.

Not at all.

The tories agenda is to support business and the rich at the expense of the working class. Always has been and always will be. Get on your bike anyone?

Look at all the cuts - they hit the poor the most. Public services that the rich people dont need but the poorest people depend on. Even something small like VAT hits the poor people proportionally harder. And we've got people living in fuel poverty, cant afford to put more money on the meter, whilst the energy companies are making billions and the rich folk on other side of town live in mansions and drive X5s. Not to mention the likes of 'Lord' Ashcroft and all the dodgy dealings regarding tax havens.

The benefit state and the poor people of this country might be part of the problem, but shitting on them isnt the solution.

[Corrigan]

C/S - Yuri on the suggestion of vouchers, Food/Books/Music vouchers would be a lot better than straight £30.

Also, I can actually see the NHS going private,purely because they could somehow justify the f*ckry in this climate, would be a f*ck*ng disaster and show the greed of our politicians/businessmen. But that's when the spirit of Guy needs to be be re-ignited.

I agree Esqui, Education in this country is shabby. The way it is funded, the curriculum, and how schools are ranked and given targets. Needs to be totally revamped, and a whole lot of money should go into training teachers and making our schools perform at high levels, like the kids in singapore.

tbh the main difference between this country and places like singapore, china etc is the attitude of the students towards learning

Its true students in those parts of the world work so so hard, they have a confucian approach to education, and no sense of entitlement. Nobody is paying Singaporeans to go to college, and it is advanced economy with some of the best educational standards in the world. Increased funding will not solve anything, Labour has increased education funding year on year, but standards in maths and english have consistently fallen, some of the worst standards out of OCED countries. Same with Healthcare, the UK has some of the worst outcomes for illnesses in the developed world, despite so much extra funding has gone in. We have to look at countries like Singapore which have a much more affordable healthcare system, where the poor are looked after, they also have a degree of economic liberalism in their healthcare system

what and you think the tories are gunna bother lookin at singapore?

get out of your bubble you fool

all they're going to do is CUT, without looking for alternatives

why do the tories care about education standards when their children all go to private school?

Labour wern't perfect but cared alot more for working people, dunno if your rich or whatever, but if so i hope daddy's business fails and your left up sh*t's creak with no paddle, maybe then you'll realise how f*ckED the callous scum are

[Flojo]

They need to realise that not everyone is academic, and can't/ don't want to do business studies n sh*t

Bring more hands on classes back, brickwork, metal work, building sh*t, electrician course, ICT needs to be more concise, so many avenues

These are options in school nowadays.

I remember speaking to one of my youngers and he's telling me about how he's on half day at school to go do some brick laying course whilst he was at school, it worked wonders because his attitude to learning a practical skill was much better than his attitude towards learning from a text book.

[Guest Esquilax]

Well it needs to be more prevalent

I also knew a guy who was doing a mechanics course, same thing, took a couple days out of school

Counted for 5 GCSE's as well

[Corrigan]

yh under labour there was an increase in the amount of practical courses, it was under the tories they went to pot

gunna happen again im afraid lads

told so many dumb heads not to vote cons and that Lab were the best option despite their problems, now the same heads are moaning about the coalition SMH.

From when i was seeing single parents vote conservative "cos that cameron fella looks nice and brown is an idiot" u know we live in a nation of idiots

despite what people say Brown was the best leader out of the 3 men..FACT

Smear campaign by the murdoch controlled media finished him

[Corrigan]

if it wernt for labour and their immigration policy you would probs be gettin penetrated by abdul out in kabul right about now

[Guest WAVESURFER]

Pos'd Jas, Skola, flojo,smaddy, Dave & 1 or 2 others.

FT Tories.

[carpedeum]

truesay tho when labour established the welfare state one of its key functions was to re-distribute wealth across the poorer sects of Britain

EMA was an embodiment of this promise, under the coalition we will see even more principles and functions of the welfare state eradicated

hope man like angelo and carpe are happy

never knew about ema but im pro education so i dont agree with education funding cuts.

[Reivax ™]

Cutting EMA is a terrible thing imo

How do they expect prospective college/6th form students to cope.

I know students that rely on ema for travel,food and clothing and that aint even enough. Especially with travel fairs/cards prices rising it's going to be much harder for students to travel. I think the government have underestimated how well ema has worked over the past few years in terms of keeping teenagers off the street ect.

[Corrigan]

truesay tho when labour established the welfare state one of its key functions was to re-distribute wealth across the poorer sects of Britain

EMA was an embodiment of this promise, under the coalition we will see even more principles and functions of the welfare state eradicated

hope man like angelo and carpe are happy

never knew about ema but im pro education so i dont agree with education funding cuts.

LOL well why did u vote tory then?

anyone with even a basic knowledge of politics new this would happen

[carpedeum]

truesay tho when labour established the welfare state one of its key functions was to re-distribute wealth across the poorer sects of Britain

EMA was an embodiment of this promise, under the coalition we will see even more principles and functions of the welfare state eradicated

hope man like angelo and carpe are happy

never knew about ema but im pro education so i dont agree with education funding cuts.

LOL well why did u vote tory then?

anyone with even a basic knowledge of politics new this would happen

cos there was time for a change, and whilst i dont agree with the education cuts

labour govt was spending on all sorts of sh*t, and was way too big, and no govt really "has" money

that money is Tax from working people of all social status and borrowing from banks.

did you agree with EVERYthing labour did? if you didnt then that explains why i could vote tory

[Corrigan]

each party has their faults

but this time for change thing was all hype catted from Obama

the recession wasnt time to change to a party that is grossly out of touch with reality

no tory MP's care about your average person, thats real talk whether you like it or not, they are all cunts, i have worked in the houses of parliament in the past and can say from experience they are all arrogant snobs

this element does exist to a lesser extent under new labour, i would be blind not to admit this, but all the Labour MP's and Lords i have conversed with have been kool normal people

Labour Party welcomes people from all backgrounds, conservatives just care about the upper echelons of society and then rely on the ignorant masses and pretentious barely middle class to vote for them, without caring about them

I can whole heartedly say that i have been given bare opportunities under the Labour Government that most of my older family members didn't receive under the Tory administration

/

In regards to what is saying it boils down to remembering where you came from

when i progess i will still vote labour, cos it was them who provided the opportunities for me

if it was the tories in power when i was coming up, i most probably wouldnt be at uni now, i would be on a building site, as thats what would have been expected of me (not sending for those who do manual labour, i just know my talents lay elsewhere) .

Anybody with any moral fibre who has alleviated themselves from humble upbringings, will still vote Labour

[Ulysses]

"Recession has been the perfect opportunity for the tories to push through their age old agenda of cuts to public funding and moves towards more privitisation."

This is disingenuous. Although you might think Tories are some evil cunts who enjoy to make working people's lives miserable.

Not at all.

The tories agenda is to support business and the rich at the expense of the working class. Always has been and always will be. Get on your bike anyone?

Look at all the cuts - they hit the poor the most. Public services that the rich people dont need but the poorest people depend on. Even something small like VAT hits the poor people proportionally harder. And we've got people living in fuel poverty, cant afford to put more money on the meter, whilst the energy companies are making billions and the rich folk on other side of town live in mansions and drive X5s. Not to mention the likes of 'Lord' Ashcroft and all the dodgy dealings regarding tax havens.

The benefit state and the poor people of this country might be part of the problem, but shitting on them isnt the solution.

Really? Last time I checked, income inequality has been at its highest levels since WW2 under Blair, Brown. Who do you think pays most of the taxes in this country? Something like the richest 5% pay 70% of the taxes. You talking like people didn't live in fuel poverty under labour, or that people didn't live in mansions and drive X5s under Labour, thats quite laughable. Energy companies have been making obscene profits for years. How many dodgy people were funding Labour? Hinduja brothers anyone? Cash for honours?

[Mr Q]

But it's already been noted that attitude towards education is totally different in those countries. And they fail any many areas that we don't.

And I wasn't debating that fact anyway, I was saying why people probably can't be bothered to debate with .

[carpedeum]

On 20/01/2011 at 0:42 AM, Josiah Bartlet said:

But it's already been noted that attitude towards education is totally different in those countries. And they fail any many areas that we don't.

And I wasn't debating that fact anyway, I was saying why people probably can't be bothered to debate with .

well they're learning from the positives, so should this country.

[Ulysses]

C/S - Yuri on the suggestion of vouchers, Food/Books/Music vouchers would be a lot better than straight £30.

Also, I can actually see the NHS going private,purely because they could somehow justify the f*ckry in this climate, would be a f*ck*ng disaster and show the greed of our politicians/businessmen. But that's when the spirit of Guy needs to be be re-ignited.

I agree Esqui, Education in this country is shabby. The way it is funded, the curriculum, and how schools are ranked and given targets. Needs to be totally revamped, and a whole lot of money should go into training teachers and making our schools perform at high levels, like the kids in singapore.

tbh the main difference between this country and places like singapore, china etc is the attitude of the students towards learning

Its true students in those parts of the world work so so hard, they have a confucian approach to education, and no sense of entitlement. Nobody is paying Singaporeans to go to college, and it is advanced economy with some of the best educational standards in the world. Increased funding will not solve anything, Labour has increased education funding year on year, but standards in maths and english have consistently fallen, some of the worst standards out of OCED countries. Same with Healthcare, the UK has some of the worst outcomes for illnesses in the developed world, despite so much extra funding has gone in. We have to look at countries like Singapore which have a much more affordable healthcare system, where the poor are looked after, they also have a degree of economic liberalism in their healthcare system

what and you think the tories are gunna bother lookin at singapore?

get out of your bubble you fool

all they're going to do is CUT, without looking for alternatives

why do the tories care about education standards when their children all go to private school?

Labour wern't perfect but cared alot more for working people, dunno if your rich or whatever, but if so i hope daddy's business fails and your left up sh*t's creak with no paddle, maybe then you'll realise how f*ckED the callous scum are

MEMO TO JACK McWAVEY: THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT HAVE ANY MONEY!

I'm not from a rich background, but I realise that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The government is not here to be anyone's 'African' Uncle. Many problems in this country, health and education included, can be solved through reform. Einstein once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results; Vast Investment year on year in Health and Education have not resulted in better outcomes. The gap between rich and poor has increased under Labour. Fact. Get over your tribal and irrational hatred for the Tories, and look at the facts.

[Guest Johnny Dang]

2 PAC STUDIES :lol:

[carpedeum]

C/S - Yuri on the suggestion of vouchers, Food/Books/Music vouchers would be a lot better than straight £30.

Also, I can actually see the NHS going private,purely because they could somehow justify the f*ckry in this climate, would be a f*ck*ng disaster and show the greed of our politicians/businessmen. But that's when the spirit of Guy needs to be be re-ignited.

I agree Esqui, Education in this country is shabby. The way it is funded, the curriculum, and how schools are ranked and given targets. Needs to be totally revamped, and a whole lot of money should go into training teachers and making our schools perform at high levels, like the kids in singapore.

tbh the main difference between this country and places like singapore, china etc is the attitude of the students towards learning

Its true students in those parts of the world work so so hard, they have a confucian approach to education, and no sense of entitlement. Nobody is paying Singaporeans to go to college, and it is advanced economy with some of the best educational standards in the world. Increased funding will not solve anything, Labour has increased education funding year on year, but standards in maths and english have consistently fallen, some of the worst standards out of OCED countries. Same with Healthcare, the UK has some of the worst outcomes for illnesses in the developed world, despite so much extra funding has gone in. We have to look at countries like Singapore which have a much more affordable healthcare system, where the poor are looked after, they also have a degree of economic liberalism in their healthcare system

what and you think the tories are gunna bother lookin at singapore?

get out of your bubble you fool

all they're going to do is CUT, without looking for alternatives

why do the tories care about education standards when their children all go to private school?

Labour wern't perfect but cared alot more for working people, dunno if your rich or whatever, but if so i hope daddy's business fails and your left up sh*t's creak with no paddle, maybe then you'll realise how f*ckED the callous scum are

MEMO TO JACK McWAVEY: THIS COUNTRY DOES NOT HAVE ANY MONEY!

I'm not from a rich background, but I realise that there is no such thing as a free lunch. The government is not here to be anyone's 'African' Uncle. Many problems in this country, health and education included, can be solved through reform. Einstein once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results; Vast Investment year on year in Health and Education have not resulted in better outcomes. The gap between rich and poor has increased under Labour. Fact. Get over your tribal and irrational hatred for the Tories, and look at the facts.

tbh....

[Corrigan]

bruv im no economist but simple economics tells you too many cuts in a time of recession more often results in a double-dip recession

Cuts are needed, yes.

But tories are cutting with no foresight, they are going to f*ck this country up in the long run

the gap between rich and poor increased because there was a period of economic boom which allowed the rich to get much richer

it would have been much worse under thee tories

and it's not a tribal hatred, if you study political history in this country it's common knowledge the tories don't help normal people, this has been the case since parliament took the main powers of governance from the monarchy. Im definitely looking at the facts

[Ulysses]

bruv im no economist but simple economics tells you too many cuts in a time of recession more often results in a double-dip recession

Cuts are needed, yes.

But tories are cutting with no foresight, they are going to f*ck this country up in the long run

the gap between rich and poor increased because there was a period of economic boom which allowed the rich to get much richer

it would have been much worse under thee tories

and it's not a tribal hatred, if you study political history in this country it's common knowledge the tories don't help normal people, this has been the case since parliament took the main powers of governance from the monarchy. Im definitely looking at the facts

It would have been much worse under the tories? Really? You have consulted some witchdoctor and he told you this?

Tories don't help normal people? What would account for their electoral success? Even thatcher had bare working class people voting for her, she helped to get many of them on the housing ladder. I think what people seem to forget is the mess Labour leaves behind. Before Thatcher under Labour, the country had a three-day week, the country had to get a loan from the IMF, power shortages (people were using candlelight), the Winter of Discontent (gravediggers and waste collectors going on strike) high inflation (which is always a tax on the poor) etc. You think 'Normal' people didn't benefit from her reforms?

[Corrigan]

in the south yes some benefited

but look at the thousands of lives she destroyed in northern areas, who are still f*cked to this day

and the way in which she diminished trade unions was disgusting, it gave the average working man no/little leg to stand on when in times of trouble

and yes the gap would have been worse, labour introduced various measures such as the minimum wage, tax credits etc

these were changes the tories were against, if they wernt in place the gap would have been larger imo

[The Infamous]

This country is tryna f*ck up the lives of us low income families. f*ck the government make your money and get the f*ck out of here before it goes into meltdown.

[Ulysses]

in the south yes some benefited

but look at the thousands of lives she destroyed in northern areas, who are still f*cked to this day

and the way in which she diminished trade unions was disgusting, it gave the average working man no/little leg to stand on when in times of trouble

and yes the gap would have been worse, labour introduced various measures such as the minimum wage, tax credits etc

these were changes the tories were against, if they wernt in place the gap would have been larger imo

Anti-Thatcherites will always point towards the her closing down the old industries in northern areas. (She didn’t, of course: she simply stopped obliging everyone else to support them.) It must surely be obvious by now that nothing would have kept the dockyards and coalmines and steel mills open. A similar process of deindustrialisation has unfolded in every other Western European country, and the only parties that still talk of “reviving our manufacturing base” are Respect, the Scottish Socialists and the BNP. The way in which she diminished trade union was good for the country as whole, they could no longer hold this country to ransom. How many of you get pissed with the RMT, and Bob Crow? these situations would certainly be a lot worse without her reforms.

[Corrigan]

yh but the way she just de-industrialised at such a rate without placing provisions to support them is the main gripe, she didnt provide any notable re-training schemes etc.

how you gunna cut jobs and benefits at the same time wtf

trade unions were a good thing imo, i agree with them personally

tbh tho we are never going to agree, i care about the welfare of working british citizens you don't

snm

[The Infamous]

all these pompous cunts that are saying cutting ema and the tuition fees raise is a good thing. Would be funny if them school drop outs rob you

just cos you were from a privileged background you dont know the difference that it(ema_ makes to peoples lives

Once they cut housing benefits this country will be in turmoil