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Adam & Eve & the Serpent in the Garden of Eden

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I'm sure everybody is familiar in some sense (even if vague) with the story of Adam & Eve and their fall

 

So God made the garden & Adam, and it went as follows

 

And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

 

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

 

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. 

 

 

(Genesis 15-17)

 

God explains to Adam the day he eats from the tree, he will die.

 

God then creates Eve to be Adams partner, Eve, they are naked an unashamed

 

It is after this we are first introduced to the Serpent

 

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field whic the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

 

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

 

But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

 

The Snake explains to Eve that by eating the fruit, she would not die, but she would instead be like God, and have knowledge of good & evil, we all know what happens next, they eat the fruit

 

 

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

 

God then discovers this turn of events after Adam confesses to him  - God then curses the serpent to he hated by all other animals for the rest of eternity, curses all woman kind to have 'sorrowful' childbirth due to Eve, and curses Adam (all mankind) to have to toil in the field in order to live/grow crops etc - of course, all 3 are kicked out from the garden of eden

 

So, my questions / observations are

 

1. The Serpent told the truth, God lied. - God tells Adam he will die the day he eats the fruit - the serpent tells eve they will have their eyes opened and know good and evil - the latter happens, the former did not.

 

2. Adam & Eve were unaware of good or evil (they did not even know they were unclothed) - Do you think is it just to punish someone who has no concept of right or wrong for what they have done?

 

3. The serpent was punished, though under no orders, for simply telling the truth

 

Cool story, bro bible.

-2

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Bro, do you follow any religion or certain belief?

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Adam was going to live forever, eating the apple ended eternal life for humans, making the dying part true

 

With no concept of good and evil, You wouldn't have the desire to do wrong, You'd simply do as You're told

 

I agree with number 3. Even if the Devil was doing wrong, the snake was an innocent animal, whose form the devil simply took, snakes should not have been punished for that. 

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yeah werent they going to be immortal had they not eaten from the tree?

 

/

 

would you have munched the fruit?

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Adam was going to live forever, eating the apple ended eternal life for humans, making the dying part true

 

This wasn't what God said, though, he didn't say 'If you eat the apple, you will die a thousand years from now', and given that he was speaking to a person who did not even have knowledge of his own nudity, you cannot expect him to understand a metaphor - There also had to be death before the fall, as Adam & Eve had to consume food to survive.
 
 
 
 

With no concept of good and evil, You wouldn't have the desire to do wrong, You'd simply do as You're told

 
 
I think it's less about the desire to do wrong, and the accountability to be punished for doing wrong.
 
 

I agree with number 3. Even if the Devil was doing wrong, the snake was an innocent animal, whose form the devil simply took, snakes should not have been punished for that. 

 

Adam & Eve were innocent (as were the billions on unborn humans who happened to inhert their sin)

-2

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would you have munched the fruit?

 

It is the interesting dictatorial/religious command that essentially states knowledge is evil, which I find rather telling (not to mention that the human body is also, evil)

 

 

Bro, do you follow any religion or certain belief?

 

Not any religious beliefs no (though of course I have some of my own), but I am extremely interested in studying most types of things, I find the biblical stories interesting, especially in light of 21st century of morality & knowledge

-1

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I think You mistake "right and wrong" for "good and evil". the Bible isn't clear on this, but they may well have had a concept of doing right and wrong, without knowing specifically about evil (the devil, death). It's still a grey area I'd rather the Bible didn't have.

 

also, the mistake a lot of people make with the bible is taking it as historical rather than as fables intended to put God's word across.

 

the moral of the story "the fall of man" is that man tried to become great like God, because the Devil told man he could, disobeying God in the process, and as punishment, God took their immortal life, punished women with periods, and I believe childbirth was also a punishment, and men with having to work for food.

 

(no Christian, just interpreting the Bible for debate. 

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Them stories there

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I think You mistake "right and wrong" for "good and evil". the Bible isn't clear on this, but they may well have had a concept of doing right and wrong, without knowing specifically about evil (the devil, death). It's still a grey area I'd rather the Bible didn't have.

 

also, the mistake a lot of people make with the bible is taking it as historical rather than as fables intended to put God's word across.

 

the moral of the story "the fall of man" is that man tried to become great like God, because the Devil told man he could, disobeying God in the process, and as punishment, God took their immortal life, punished women with periods, and I believe childbirth was also a punishment, and men with having to work for food.

 

(no Christian, just interpreting the Bible for debate. 

 

No, I don't mistake it for good and evil - the terms in the bible as synonymous, hence the first thing that happens when they ate was realizing they were naked, and covering up, this is to illustrate that they are innocent

 

Secondly Adam /Man did not try to become God, the serpent (who couldn't have been Satan as Satan had not fallen then, according to Ezekiel) the snake said he would become as God, i.e. knowing good & evil, this is confirmed in Genesis 22

 

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

 

 

It also states that he must be banished lest he eat from the tree of life and live forever - which very explicitly means that he would not have lived forever otherwise

 

22 And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

 

 

In summary

 

 Adam would not have lived forever - the concept of no death before the fall was not established in the OT

-1

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Genesis 3:5

 

when You eat from it Your eyes will be open, and You will become like God

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Genesis 2: 17

 

for when You eat from it, You will surely die

 

he was never gonna die, unless he ate from the tree

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Genesis 3:5

 

when You eat from it Your eyes will be open, and You will become like God

 

Like God as in have knowledge, hence god saying 'he has become like one of us, knowing good & evil'

 

& you are also using the New Age American bible, that says 'like' instead of 'as' and does not say 'die that day', merely die..

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Revelation 12:9

 

"that ancient serpent called the Devil, or Satan, which deceiveth the whole world"

 

that's the passage Christians quote when they want to argue, stating that the ancient serpent means the serpent from Genesis, and deceiving the whole world was making all humans have to be punished for this sin of eating the apple. 

 

I see room for error, and fully understand anyone not accepting it, but I accept that the bible is referring to the same serpent. 

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I concede, that I saw "in the day that You eat of it, You shall die" when I looked at my revised standard bible. 

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Revelations was part of the New Testament, Genesis was part of the Old Testament, there are 400 years between the two 'books', written by entirely different generations and cultures of people.

 

There isn't a coherent 'the bible says' on issues in the different books anymore than there is a coherent Vip2 says

-1

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Revelation was supposedly God speaking directly to John, so 400 years later or not, God wouldn't incorrectly call Satan the serpent from Eden. 

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Revelation was supposedly God speaking directly to John, so 400 years later or not, God wouldn't incorrectly call Satan the serpent from Eden. 

 

Play devils advocate, don't actually play the role of a bible belt Pentecostal, Lench.

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what I mean is, if we're talking about the bible being self contained, true to itself, since all we're looking for is an inconsistency, then, by its own rules

 

John wrote the book of Revelations, with God speaking to him directly, telling him what to write.

 

so God is calling the devil in Revelations, the serpent from Genesis.

 

meaning that the bible does in fact say the serpent who deceived Eve was Satan

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The Bible ALSO says it wasn't Satan

 

It's not true to itself...its filled with contradictions

-1

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when does it say it wasn't Satan?

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hold on?

he punished eve by making women suffer child birth?

Sooo he punished 90% of animals who had nothing to so with this too?

was he just going to have two humans?

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there are inconsistencies in the bible? no way!

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