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Wow, maybe I credited you with too much intelligence.

Where did I say rivalry was not important?

Infact I'd love you to quote me using the terms "not important" or "irrelevant".

I said we should be looking to the LONG TERM, City are looking to now, we can't compete with them now so we play a different game.

They are not blooding youth so we should make that the basis of our long term strategy.

The financial restraints will slow them down in the near future, they won't be allowed to continue at their current rate guaranteed.

Pride shouldn't be used to make flippant decisions and we certainly shouldn't be letting our best youth go as a result of it, yes Fergie used Liverpool's success as a benchmark, Man City have only won 1 title, you can't compare the 2.

We should focus on us, that is the only way you can win in the long haul, one battle doesn't win a war.

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Pogba's agent has already cone out and said the reason he may leave is not down to Fergie,

Winning the tittle is ahead of the development of Paul Pogba,

I'm taking his agents words about the reasons for him leaving as a nod to the possibility that him leaving could be down to the contract and wages, something the club is stringent about due to them looking to the future,

The lack of action is not on the training putch or match pitch, but in the boardroom,

Getting into contract dramas with players who had made literally a couple of first team appearances us not stringent ir intelligent,

Bowing down to them and letting them ride rough shod and winning said dramas would be even more damaging,

I would've actually preferred fir him to go the Ravel route and say I'm leaving coz I want first team football and I dint see Mr Ferguson giving me that, bu that isn't the reason.

If you want to blame someone/something for Pogba's possible departure, blame the clubs stringent contract dealings with young players, which ate in place due to tge view to tge long term future of the club,

City would've kept him, coz they would've offered what he wanted, but you say yourself we can't do what city do.

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make a list.

i'll start it,

Pique Was seen as no more than an equal to Johnny Evans, he was a Barca kid and we probably foresaw a time when he'd act upon that a la cesc got a £7 offer and it made sense at the time,

Rossi this one was a bit sad even at the time, but you win some and you lose some. he was undoubtedly talented but you can't get them all right,

i'm struggling to think of many more who came through the ranks left and went on to achieve massive things,

i've probably missed someone really obvious, help me out. (not even being sarcastic)

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i'm trying to think of those who went on to play in the premiership or championship

Danny Simpson got a decent ammount of games but wasn't deemed good enough especially with Rafael in the wings, so was let go.

Bardsley ditto.

Frasier Campbell again wasn't deemed good enough, and at the time we had our fair share of attackers/strikers, and Welbeck and Macheda were seen as better talents in the long run,

Eagles, wasn't good enough.

Lee Martin, Wasn't good enough,

Gibson.............

David Jones......

Ebanks-Blake, got a bad injury during his time here if IRC and didn't pick up his momentum again and so was moved on, (think he broke his leg or something)

Madds Timm got involved with an unfortunate incident, then his progress sort of stalled,

Eikrem is one we have to see about in the next few years, but i don't think he was fancied much. who knows with that one,

Possebon had something about him, picked up a bad injury had a disastrous loan deal where he went AWOL then was sent off to south America.

Tosic, was always a odd deal. not even sure what happened there.

Micheal Stewart came through around the same time as Fletcher and looked good, but again he sort of stalled and was moved on,

im struggling to find the long list of young guys who we are regretting letting go, apart from Rossi and Pique. who are obvious.

maybe we fall victim to the fact that when concerning reserve and youth football the trend is not to criticise at all but to heap praise on young players, so their short comings aren't always apparent and tangible. most of these guys just were not good enough in the long run. simple as that really,

if your arguement is the method of recruitment in the first place and then the subsequent training and development whilst at the club in the youth and reserve set ups, then you might have an arguement

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Rossi and Pique are the two the touch me to this day (No homo) Was in shock when they left Haha.

agreed, but i'm struggling to find any glaring f*ck ups apart from those two,

the development and transition of youth players to first team regulars hasn't been as constant as we all would've liked, but the belief that we let endless ammounts of talented youth slip through our fingers is a bit of a myth tbh.

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Other than Ravel and Pogs, the only other person im REALLY watching for atm is Tunniclife. Hes not even overly talented or anything, but there is something about him. Something that makes me think he could be a United player years to come.

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Spector looked good, i remember seeing him play on occasions when h was making his first appearences for the club and i thought we had a real player, i was a bit miffed when he left, but saw in time that he just wasn't good enough.

Shawcross, it could be possible to say that that was an oversight, however many would disagree and say that he's found he's level.

Rhichardson, Lord snotty, gained a bad reputation for his cocky attitude round the club, and wasn't deemed to have the talent to back it up.

Eckersley, wasn't good enough.

Phil Marsh, Came to play for Fc United for a while, kind of shows he wasn't god enough,

the legions of ex players at Hull all had talent, but now they're at Hull and don't seem to be really setting the world alight, to make us think we've f*cked up.

....................

i'll wait for the long list that buck the trend,

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You've mentioned most of them, I'll add a few.

Shawcross

Richard Eckersley

Stewart

Zieler

Brandy

Nicky Ajose (Don't laugh)

Many of the names have not gone on to do great things but they have moved down levels, it would have been different stories if they had been given an opportunity.

Look at someone like John O'shea, even dare I say Gary Neville, they arguably would not stick out for a league 1/Championship team but became integral parts of our squad.

I believe most of the names mentioned were more talented than them 2.

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Other than Ravel and Pogs, the only other person im REALLY watching for atm is Tunniclife. Hes not even overly talented or anything, but there is something about him. Something that makes me think he could be a United player years to come.

he's style makes his development a lot easier than Pogba's, coupled with his nationality and temprement makes it possible to send him out on loan and a lot easier to do so than it was with Pogba or Ravel.

he's a player i'm hopefull of, along with Cole and Lingard, Will Keane goes without saying, Petrucci has the talent just a case of him staying fit, People are tiping Brady to make a first team push next season also,

in the longer term Blackett is one i hope can keep developing as he seems like hie's going to have the physical capabilities its just whether or not he can develop the skill and tech

to carry on the list, Matty james is one i'm a little sick about, but his injuries have stunted his development.

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You've mentioned most of them, I'll add a few.

Shawcross

Richard Eckersley

Stewart

Zieler

Brandy

Nicky Ajose (Don't laugh)

Many of the names have not gone on to do great things but they have moved down levels, it would have been different stories if they had been given an opportunity.

Look at someone like John O'shea, even dare I say Gary Neville, they arguably would not stick out for a league 1/Championship team but became integral parts of our squad.

I believe most of the names mentioned were more talented than them 2.

From that list only cameron stewart is worth a serious response. I remember him desperately wanting to go on loan and being told by united he wasnt ready. Then as soon as he went he started murking. Hes a good lad and will play prem ball.

The rest your mad. ecks was one of this shittest players ever. Guys used to run rings around him for jokes back in the day. so many man were shocked he made it as far as he did and even more shocked that he left of his own accord. His brother was a far better player than him and didnt get half the opportuntities.

Fabs got done by injuries more than anything, broke his leg and his ankle all within a couple years. i remember playing with him and the boy was fucked on so many levels.

Shawcross is at his level at that isnt uniteds level

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matty james is/was good enough but unfortunately i think hes missed the boat. he will probs have a good championship/lower-mid table prem careeer but he will never get the push at united. guy was on loan with welbs at preston and look at how far apart they are now

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You've mentioned most of them, I'll add a few.

Shawcross

Richard Eckersley

Stewart

Zieler

Brandy

Nicky Ajose (Don't laugh)

Many of the names have not gone on to do great things but they have moved down levels, it would have been different stories if they had been given an opportunity.

Look at someone like John O'shea, even dare I say Gary Neville, they arguably would not stick out for a league 1/Championship team but became integral parts of our squad.

I believe most of the names mentioned were more talented than them 2.

Zieler and Shawcross are the only ones playing top flight football, so your saying all the rest of the top flight managers across Europe have missed the boat on the others. Just changed your arguement and question the capabilities of the coaching staff who deal with the young players, as the evidence and subsequent careers of the players mentioned have sort of vindicated the decisions to let the players go..

ohh dear. its always good to end a good ol' debate with a bit of humour

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Obviously the coaching staff may have to take some of the slack but I don't think it is all down to them.

Sometimes I think it's just a case of Fergie overlooking youth.

Lee Martin to me would be a different player now had he been given a real chance with us.

Ajose should have got a debut atleast, if he looks shit then fair enough but he didn't even get the chance.

Possebon was ready for big man ball imo.

Zieler should have been given a chance, he is currently no.1 keeper for a Bundesliga team which finished 7th, why were we so fearful of trying to find a VDS replacement when he was there all along?

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At the end of the day this argument is futile because it all comes down to philosophy.

I am an over optimistic person by nature, if I had my way 1 to 11 would be youth graduates.

Where next man see a guy who ain't good enough I see a guy who has potential and can be made good enough.

I don't really see the point in a youth system when 2 players come through every 10 years, the youth system is where the real value is so to me Fergie is talking bull cos he overlooks too many of them.

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My list is Pique, Rossi and Eikrem(I remember there was a month in the reserves where he was involved in every goal we scored. Thought he deserved a chance then.)

Pogba will soon be added to that list.

Possebon had the potential to be a first team regular but never looked the same after the injury.

Ravel definitely has the ability to perform at the top level but the jury is still out for me on whether he has the mentality.

The majority of the other names previously mentioned haven't been a bigg loss imo.

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i remember David Jones doing really when he went on loan to Holland - always wondered why he didn't get to make that move permanent, because from all accounts he was a pretty valuable member of the team then (think it was at NEC?)

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