did this little shit change the modern day midfields?

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

after a drunken discussion yesterday the merits of defensive midfielders were spoken about and it was suggested that claude makalele has changed the way top managers think. Which is a very big statement and a bit 'bbc-ish' for me.Okay i know defensive minded midfielders existed way before makalele (desially, Dunga, Mattheus, etc) and will continue to exist long after he hangs up his boots. The term 'makalele role' is perhaps the most overused in modern day football, and a lot of teams tend to employ what is essentially a 'midfield breaker' as an essential part of the midfield. Javier Mascherano is a another name which got mentioned and it was argued that his introduction has brought more to steven gerrards play than Torres has. Mascheranos introduction has also seen liverpool often employ 1 striker as well though and take Gerrard out of his favoured position. An example of how a defensive mid can disrupt a teams shape and put layers out of position as A defensive mid ussually calls for a 4-5-1 formation (1 i hate with a passion). Even european heavyweights such as Real and Barca have changed their policies and have recently signed 2 man monsters in Diarra and Toure respectively to add muscle to their midfields.I don't think its coincidence that Chelsea won something in every of the 1st 3 years that makalele played whilst madrid won not a thing! maybe this is testament to makaleles abiility of due to the need for a defensive minded mid. Is the box to box midfielder a dying breed? i remeber when a box to box was an essential part of a succesful team recent examples are players like Essien, Gerrard, Hargreeves, Flamini, Manuel fernandes (pre 2004), vieria, rob lee! Keane and gatusso.My question is a defensive shield essential for succes in modern day football? OR is this type of player being replaced in elite teams by the ball playing midfielder? Pirlo, xavi, Veloso, Carrick are examples of players in teams who employ a deep lying playmaker in front of the defence?Personally i feel a 'makalele' type player is not needed in a good football team as a good team should be good enough to pick up ruunner without a defensive shield and a defensive mnided midfielder limits a team. Give me alonso over mascherano, Xavi over Marquez, Barry over reo-coker any day of the week.

[Aquaman]

i don't think its neccessary for players with good discipline and tactical sense. but some players (stevie g) are so inept tactically they have to have one or become a liability.flamini/fabregas was a good example of not needing 1. gilberto wern't needed cos them 2 knew each others games inside out and covered each other instaed of 1 staying back 1 forward at all times.i think every cm needs some sort of enforcer tho. uneed someone to put there foot in, whether they are running everywhere or just sitting back is a case of whats needed in each case

[n/a]

NOT A FANOF THem it all depends on ur opinion what football u likebut ilook at players like makele nd mascherano with little respectthere effective performersbut what they do dont impress methat s why i respect teams who dont play with traditional 'makele' defensive midfielders

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

The only thing I find is that when a team plays someone in this position they then have to have two other mids alongside. Resulting in 4-5-1 (My most hated formation) or a really sh*t 4-3-3.3 central midfielders is not cool imo. Leads to boring football. Cheap boring football.4-4-2 with someone who is clever and can sit when needed>>>>>

[Hernandez Balcazar]

we aint got one.goin mighty fine

[Action Dan]

Makalele is a genuinely top footballer though, not just someone who breaks the play up.His passing is superb, as his ball retention.

[Reuben]

the main reason real madrid went 3 seasons without winning anything was them selling makalelebut i think its nothing new for all their attacking talent in the 80's brazil flopped until they brought in dungayou can play with a makalele type player and not be negative 'spoiling' teami genuinely like his play and dont think he's as on dimensional as anelka said

[n/a]

Makalele is a genuinely top footballer though, not just someone who breaks the play up.His passing is superb, as his ball retention.

top footballer?at DMwhat about in a midfield 2

[Action Dan]

Makalele is a genuinely top footballer though, not just someone who breaks the play up.His passing is superb, as his ball retention.

top footballer?at DMwhat about in a midfield 2

Would depend on who's next to him? Him and Fabregas or Scholes would clearly work.

[Reuben]

when he was younger he could play in a two man midim sure he didnt play with 2 other cm's in the early's of his real career

[Guest Tronics]

I agree with the initial post that managers have put too much emphasis on the DM role now, kinda relates to manangers sending out teams to draw or scrap a win.In terms of teams still needing a 'makele' nowadays i would have to say, yes.The only thing that's changed are the specifications, now managers/fans want more from their players, so even a DM needs to be able to spray balls, shoot and dominant the midfield, where as before it was all about nullifying the opposing teams threats and breaking up play.Lastly, DM's role change from team to team and country to country. So a Pirlo wouldn't necessarily work (or do the same job) if he played for Liverpool etc.

[Guest Mickey Kane]

Makalele is a genuinely top footballer though, not just someone who breaks the play up.His passing is superb, as his ball retention.

top footballer?at DMwhat about in a midfield 2

France?

[Action Dan]

I agree with the initial post that managers have put too much emphasis on the DM role now, kinda relates to manangers sending out teams to draw or scrap a win.In terms of teams still needing a 'makele' nowadays i would have to say, yes.The only thing that's changed are the specifications, now managers/fans want more from their players, so even a DM needs to be able to spray balls, shoot and dominant the midfield, where as before it was all about nullifying the opposing teams threats and breaking up play.Lastly, DM's role change from team to team and country to country. So a Pirlo wouldn't necessarily work (or do the same job) if he played for Liverpool etc.

I agree.Pirlo would need to play in a team that play good football based on a short passing game.

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

NOT A FANOF THem it all depends on ur opinion what football u likebut ilook at players like makele nd mascherano with little respectthere effective performersbut what they do dont impress methat s why i respect teams who dont play with traditional 'makele' defensive midfielders

yeah agree. I see it that having a player like this in midfield puts the other midfielder under much more pressure as he has to do 2 jobs:-get on the ball and spray it aroundANDsupport the attackThats why most teams end up playing 3 in the middle. I rate makalele but i disagree that he's good at distributing the ball i think he's quite average. Only midfield breaker in recent times who has skill and good passing range that i can remembers redondo.

[Trim]

Thing is it depends on each individual one. e.g. Makalele seems not to be able to play in a 2 man midfield as well as he can in a 3. Mascherano on the other hand can play in both and he's the best DM in the world right now imo. The way he breaks up play is sick and i can see why people dont like them. But mascherano as an example has shown a quite a few times that he does alot more than just break up opposition play. He is actually a sick passer, if you watch him in a match, alot of the passes to feet he makes are sick and he doesnt misplace many passes, when he gets forward he does it with intent and he's quick aswell. I prefer deep lying playmakers normally because its good to see someone able to just pull the strings in a midfield so effortlessly and control the game but i like these types of players, they dont get enough praise for whet they do. That was the 4-1 win at anfield last season, i dont think we would have won it 4-1 without him. The analysis was good, west ham were insane to not play him then sell him, he's a world class player. so happy we bought him brings so much to the table and his partnership with alonso is good aswell. these types of players are very underrated and i think they always will be.

[Rsonist]

Our DM's have consisted of Stefan Freund, Nicola Berti, Didier Zokora and even Jason f*ckin Cundy.So i really cant comment on the role seeing as we have never had someone who actually does the job of a DM although thats supposed to be their role....

[HangTheDJ]

No.Makelele is the only 'Makelele type player' in the world.Because he CANNOT play in a two (for prolonged periods), because he has no legs... Mascherano is more than capable of playing in a two, and more than capable of bossing a game and driving forward.There isn't another play like that in the world, and Makelele didn't cause this "put someone infront of the back four" craze, negative managers did.Mascherano is the best in the world at sitting there and sweeping up, but he's wasting his career IMO, he has alot more to offer than that.Liverpool and Chelsea, and arguballly Barcelona are the only teams I can think of who play with a disciplined defensive midfielder... and thats down to the negative approach by the managers than Makelele.United, Villa, Arsenal, Madrid, so many teams play/have played 4-3-3 without someone sitting like that, and have played free-flowing attacking football, where the most-defensive midfielder still gets heavily involved with the attacking play.Moretime the deep lying players are brilliant footballers - i.e Pirlo, Carrick, Barry, Alonso.

[The Somalian]

I came into this thread expectin g to see makelele and guess what i did

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

as someone said its because a lot of footballers are so bad tactically and so inept at playing simple football and only know kick rush that these guys get forced into only sweeping someones shiteness

c/sI dont think they realise you cant pass the ball through someone elses body. they dont realise they arent invisible

[Aquaman]

edit - got what u was saying twistedmakelele can ball tho. u have to distinguish them sh*t ballers from skilled tactical playerscertain coaches got it twisted and thought all u had to do was buy some lanky african breh to run a marathon whilst kicking lumps out of any and everyones calfs n shinsthem sissoko type players. big up rafa

[Reuben]

as someone said its because a lot of footballers are so bad tactically and so inept at playing simple football and only know kick rush that these guys get forced into only sweeping someones shiteness

makelele can ball tho. u have to distinguish them sh*t ballers from skilled tactical playerscertain coaches got it twisted and thought all u had to do was buy some lanky african breh to run a marathon whilst kicking lumps out of any and everyones calfs n shinsthem sissoko type players. big up rafa

LOL funny thing is his ball playin has improved at juve

[Trim]

I seriously dont understand how people dont get tired of cussin the same people, shits ridiculous.

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

edit - got what u was saying twistedmakelele can ball tho. u have to distinguish them sh*t ballers from skilled tactical playerscertain coaches got it twisted and thought all u had to do was buy some lanky african breh to run a marathon whilst kicking lumps out of any and everyones calfs n shinsthem sissoko type players. big up rafa

yeah true and this is kind of the point i was trying to make. It became a phenomenon that managers started to feel that they had to have a player in the 'makalele role' and the big african midfielder was supposed to be a 2003-2007 upgrade on what makalele did but didn't generally work. JJ i agree with what your saying about its the managers who need to take a lot of the blame for the negative tactics. But fact remains in tight games most teams will have a man that will come in and sit in a 4-5-1. United have hargreeves (but surprisingly didn't use him as much as i thought they might), Arsenal have Gilberto and Madrid sometimes play diarra and gago!Theres only barca and United as top teams who you could say regularly play without an out and out defensive midfielder. Theres an argument that makalele at madrid started this trend. However if United and say barca started to dominate europe then perhaps a deep lying playmaker will become the new must.THE FORMER TOP 4Liverpool - ince/redknapp OR alonso/gerrardUnited - Keane/ScholesArsenal - viera/petitNewcastle - Lee/clarkAll used to play with a box to box and an attacking midfielder. Now the trend seems to be a DM and an attacking midfielder (x2). Arsenal were playing with gilberto before this season so they don't get a bly.

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

I seriously dont understand how people dont get tired of cussin the same people, shits ridiculous.

no i think its a fair point. would you not agree a limited player such as sissoka limited liverpools football? and you were much more effective with the box to box (gerrard) and Playmaker Alonso?This isn't strictly for liverpool fans same for arsenal fans gilberto/fabregas or flamini type and fabregas, Chelsea fans Essien or Makalele?