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Mr.Skeng

Do we have free will??

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was talking about this with a mate the other day.The way i see it, there are 2 factors which influence our decsisions in life. Those being our brains/personality,, along with external factors.The way our brains work is determined by the DNA which inherit from our parents (something which we have no choice in). the external factors which determine our decisions such as upbrininging, things we are tought in school etc. are something which we have no choice in. This raises the question of if we have no choice in either of these 2 criteria; do we have freedom of choice? Every decision we make is determined by these 2 factors. So, are we really responsible for our actions?

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Guest Medic

Yes, we have complete will over ourselves. Those factors seem like a cop-out/petty excuse to rid ourselves of responsibility. Blame the DNA and upbringing, dont buy it for a second.

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Yes, we have complete will over ourselves. Those factors seem like a cop-out/petty excuse to rid ourselves of responsibility. Blame the DNA and upbringing, dont buy it for a second.
say A punced B in the face. B, if he inherited p*ssy genes from his parents and grew up in an enviroment where violence wasnt practiced, then he probably wouldnt punch A back.However, if B had violent parents (who he inherite their genes) and grew up in an enviroment where violence was the norm, he probably would punch A back. Both these two options are determined by factors which B had no choice in, therefore is his decision on how he reacts really his independant decision??

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Guest Medic

Probability? You cant measure or predict anyones actions. All these hypothetical situations arent so black and white as your putting across

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Yes, we have complete will over ourselves. Those factors seem like a cop-out/petty excuse to rid ourselves of responsibility. Blame the DNA and upbringing, dont buy it for a second.
say A punced B in the face. B, if he inherited p*ssy genes from his parents and grew up in an enviroment where violence wasnt practiced, then he probably wouldnt punch A back.However, if B had violent parents (who he inherite their genes) and grew up in an enviroment where violence was the norm, he probably would punch A back. Both these two options are determined by factors which B had no choice in, therefore is his decision on how he reacts really his independant decision??
You can modify your behaviour and train yourself to behave in certain waysAn individual who was raised in a violent environment and is "naturally" violent could practice not being violent, not losing his temper etc. to the point where that became his "natural" behaviourAn individual who comes from a non-violent background who is thrown into a violent situation or exposed to violence can "learn" violent behaviour eg soldiers in the Vietnam war who had never experienced anymore violence than the average young male found themsevles doing horrendous things to women and children

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Yes, we have complete will over ourselves. Those factors seem like a cop-out/petty excuse to rid ourselves of responsibility. Blame the DNA and upbringing, dont buy it for a second.
say A punced B in the face. B, if he inherited p*ssy genes from his parents and grew up in an enviroment where violence wasnt practiced, then he probably wouldnt punch A back.However, if B had violent parents (who he inherite their genes) and grew up in an enviroment where violence was the norm, he probably would punch A back. Both these two options are determined by factors which B had no choice in, therefore is his decision on how he reacts really his independant decision??
You can modify your behaviour and train yourself to behave in certain waysAn individual who was raised in a violent environment and is "naturally" violent could practice not being violent, not losing his temper etc. to the point where that became his "natural" behaviourAn individual who comes from a non-violent background who is thrown into a violent situation or exposed to violence can "learn" violent behaviour eg soldiers in the Vietnam war who had never experienced anymore violence than the average young male found themsevles doing horrendous things to women and children
his decision to modify his behaviour would be down to the individual. This decision would of course be determined by how his brain works (the genes he inherited from his parents) along with the way his personality has been shaped through his life (again, other external factors). The reason why some1 from a non-violent background would choose to do horrific acts in the vietnam war is pur down to external factors (war). Nobody thinks war is pleasent and it brings out the worst in people , an example can be the photos of american soldiers pissing on iraqi's. These, as i said before are determined by a combination of personality and external factors suck as hatred for iraqi's and the general stress of war. all of these i would class as 'external'

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you have constructed your thesis in a way that it can't be disproveni.e. i could spend all day citing examples of reformed violent individuals and you would merely say that all that means is they were socialised to be capable of reform anywaythis doesn't mean that you would be,right though

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we doto say otherwise would mean that reason and innovation doesn't exist.

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I know my argument cant be proven or disproven (thats whats frustrating about it) But to me, the best way to describe it is with using a robot. If someone makes an itelligent robot who can learn and adapt to surroundings. The robot has artificial intelligence but can also adapt its behaviour to what it experiences. Every action which the robot chooses will be dependant on how it is made from the creator combined with what it experiences. Both of these factors are not down to the robot itself (so is it really responsible for when it does something 'bad'.)The only logical alternative is that we all have 'souls' which influence us. but still (what determines how our souls act?)IMO people are scared that we dont have free will and we all like to think we are responsible for our actions

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Every action which the robot chooses will be dependant on how it is made from the creator combined with what it experiences. Both of these factors are not down to the robot itself (so is it really responsible for when it does something 'bad'.)The only logical alternative is that we all have 'souls' which influence us
NahLike I said, if you're actually interested in this then you should do some reading, cos you're putting across a very basic argument/thought (no offence intended)
Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you represents determinism; the way you play it is free will.

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we do but we are controled by others and we think we have to live a certain waythe government own our livesnow we all HAVE TO GO TO SCHOOL, PAY BILLS, etc. our life is about money, where as before money existed we would just go by authority like lions in a pride, or nature taking course.

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Every action which the robot chooses will be dependant on how it is made from the creator combined with what it experiences. Both of these factors are not down to the robot itself (so is it really responsible for when it does something 'bad'.)The only logical alternative is that we all have 'souls' which influence us
NahLike I said, if you're actually interested in this then you should do some reading, cos you're putting across a very basic argument/thought (no offence intended)
Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you represents determinism; the way you play it is free will.
if you're not prepared to offer a locigal answer then dont bother posting.That quote you put in at the end, i dont know if you think it made you look cool, but really it shows you havent read anything which ive posted. I think im wasting my time here.

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Yes, we have complete will over ourselves. Those factors seem like a cop-out/petty excuse to rid ourselves of responsibility. Blame the DNA and upbringing, dont buy it for a second.
say A punced B in the face. B, if he inherited p*ssy genes from his parents and grew up in an enviroment where violence wasnt practiced, then he probably wouldnt punch A back.However, if B had violent parents (who he inherite their genes) and grew up in an enviroment where violence was the norm, he probably would punch A back. Both these two options are determined by factors which B had no choice in, therefore is his decision on how he reacts really his independant decision??
You can modify your behaviour and train yourself to behave in certain ways
I'm sure the Army can testify to this.

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i actually hate this topic even though i think about it quite a loti believe in free will, which i believe meansthat time can not be a stream, the past ceases to be, and the future has yet to exists thus time travel will never be realised, because there is nothing to travel throughthe concept of destiny is a liei also believe it is not possible to believe in both Gods omnipotence and free will

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of course there is free willbut we are influenced by genes, upbringing,etc. but we ultimately make the decisions that we do in lifeand i beg noone come with the concept of predestiny

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of course there is free willbut we are influenced by genes, upbringing,etc. but we ultimately make the decisions that we do in lifeand i beg noone come with the concept of predestiny
destiny or predestinationpredestiny isn't a word

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