Joint Enterprise

[imhim]

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?

 

The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".

 

In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.

Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries. If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.

 

Jointly responsible? Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

[Guest WAVESURFER]

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries.If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.Jointly responsible?Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

"New law"? Did you even read this before you posted it?

[Bardissimo]

know of someone whose in pen for suttin similiar to thisf*ck*ng despicable tbh, he ain't even the type

[imhim]

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries.If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.Jointly responsible?Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

"New law"? Did you even read this before you posted it?

typo

[Guest WAVESURFER]

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries.If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.Jointly responsible?Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

"New law"? Did you even read this before you posted it?

typo

Nice save.

[imhim]

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries.If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.Jointly responsible?Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

"New law"? Did you even read this before you posted it?

typo

Nice save.

phew

[NO SUNSHINE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_8370000/8370746.stm

[Grafter]

smokin the snitches out

[Grafter]

watchin this now

[charliechalk]

know someone whose in pen for this

[TF S4DK]

Thing is you can beat it on appeal.

[charliechalk]

You have the potential to beat the majority of things on appeal... hence its existance.

[TF S4DK]

No but on appeal its very easy to beat.Its just as someone has died, you have no choice in the orginal murder case of not going in. Even if the ACTUAL killer admits at trial.

[Guest Tosser]

you can beat it on appeal.

Them rapist slogans there

[Guest Tosser]

No but on appeal its very easy to beat.

And again

[Young £]

its a madness thoughwatched it earlier, very good watchc/s tf also

[North Aleng]

"so go f*ck ur joint enterprise, i bun i joint till u cant see any eyes"easy cases to beat, try sting man earlier this year wid one of dem

[Gunner]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/law_in_action/8126388.stm

Joint enterprise

LAW IN ACTION

How do you solve a murder where a gang is involved, there is no evidence as to who inflicted the fatal blow, and no-one is talking?

The answer lies in a powerful legal doctrine known as "joint enterprise".

In short, it enables entire groups of people to be prosecuted for murder even though they may have played very different roles in a killing.

Joint enterprise is not new - it has been around for centuries.

If a killing took place in a duel, for instance, the law of joint enterprise would convict not only the duellers, but also the seconds and even doctors standing by ready to attend to the injured.

Jointly responsible?

Perhaps most famously the doctrine was used in 1952 to convict Derek Bentley of the shooting of a police officer - the words "let him have it" forming part of the evidence of joint enterprise.

The actual murder was committed by his accomplice Christopher Craig who escaped the death penalty because he was 16 at the time.

It is said Bentley's mental age was 11 - which the jury was not told

The older Bentley was hanged in 1953.

In a normal murder charge the prosecution have to prove that the defendant either intended to kill or cause serious bodily harm.

But the law of joint enterprise is much looser and effectively allows someone to be prosecuted for murder if they foresaw that another member of the group might kill or inflict serious harm.

There is a concern that this sets the bar too low for the prosecution, and in some cases leads to people on the fringes of a group being prosecuted when they are too morally remote from the murder to be charged with it.

Gang violence

Lorraine Fraser's 16 year old son, Tyrone Clarke, was beaten and stabbed to death by a mob of up to 30 youths in Leeds in 2004.

It is probable that none of the four men convicted of his murder actually struck the fatal blow.

It was the law of joint enterprise that enabled the four to be prosecuted and convicted.

For Lorraine Fraser though, all 30 should have been prosecuted.

Martin Dinnegan was killed during a dispute between up to 20 youths

"If all them hadn't gone down there that day, Tyrone would have been alive today" she told the programme.

"I blame all 30 - not just the four - and there's 26 more on the streets of Beeston who've got blood on their hands for my son."

The law of joint enterprise places a heavy burden on young people in gangs and groups.

They need to be asking themselves constantly who is in the gang, might they be carrying weapons and what might they do with those weapons?

If they do not ask themselves those questions, and act accordingly, they could find themselves charged with murder.

Rene John-Baptiste was one of four men charged with the murder of fourteen year old Martin Dinnegan.

He was later acquitted along with another defendant of all charges, but says he was shocked when told he was being charged with murder.

"I didn't have nothing to do with it - I was just there as well as a lot of others.

"Obviously I was upset, because I knew I didn't kill anyone."

Schools initiative

The police believe that a greater awareness of the law of joint enterprise among young people could have a positive effect in preventing gang violence.

The police hope to encourage young people not to join gangs

The Metropolitan Police are taking a proactive approach to informing young people about joint enterprise.

They have produced a DVD in which a murder scenario is played out when a group of youths enter a playground.

Each plays a different role - one hangs back, one turns away, one kills.

The police play the DVD in schools to promote awareness and stimulate debate.

The hope is that once young people appreciate the way the law operates, they will think twice about their involvement with groups and gangs and walk away before any trouble starts.

Commander Simon Foy, head of the Met's Homicide and Serious Crime Command, is optimistic.

"If you can get young people thinking about what they're doing, you're well on your way to educating them.

"We are tapping into something which young people in particular just haven't thought about."

Contact the programme

If you have thoughts on any of the topics we have covered, or any other legal issues, you can contact us by email at [email protected], or by post at Law In Action, BBC White City, Wood Lane, London W12 7TS.

This is not a new thing as in this year.

But just been speaking to someone on fb and i know it was used to convict those in this case

http://www.bexleytimes.co.uk/content/bexley/times/news/story.aspx?brand=BXYOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsbxy&itemid=WeED15%20Apr%202010%2010:28:23:667

Teens deny part in mafia gang's throat slashing

15 April 2010

A TEENAGE gang known as the 'Black Mafia' slit a man's throat after smashing their way into a 16th birthday party, a court heard.

Up to 17 youths battered down the front door of the house in Bellingham, Lewisham, in the early hours of the morning.

Most of the partygoers managed to flee upstairs to the bedrooms or into the garden, but 26 year-old Dameon Phillips was caught on the stairs. He was left bleeding heavily from his neck and had to have extensive treatment in hospital, jurors at the Old Bailey were told on Tuesday.

Nine alleged gang members, aged between 15 and 18, are standing trial, including seven youths, from Blackheath, Catford and Lewisham, who can not be identified. They deny wounding with intent and violent disorder.

Five more young men, including 18 year-olds Lloyd Reid, of Paynell Court, Lawn Terrace, Blackheath, and Le-Reece Buchanan, of Lewisham High Street, Lewisham, were identified by witnesses inside the house, the court heard.

They both deny wounding with intent and violent disorder Prosecutor Benedict Kelleher said: "Just before 2am the house was attacked. They gathered outside the house, banged on the windows and shouted the name of their gang, Black Mafia. They burst into the house and attacked the occupant. One of the gang was carrying a brick in his hand and one had what appeared to be a gun.

"As they burst in the female partygoers ran upstairs in fear of what was going on.

"The male partygoers ran out the back of the house into the back garden but one young man did not leave. He was older than the others and he stood where he was on the staircase. He was the person the gang saw as they entered and he was struck repeatedly and suffered severe injuries.

"It must have had some gang motive. There was clearly some purpose."

The most serious wound was a 17cm cut across his neck, the court heard.

It is claimed were 17 youths in the gang which cycled from Catford to the house in Otterden Street, Bellingham, in the early hours of May 24 last year. The trial, which is expected to last eight weeks, continues.

Slightly related, but another person shot dead in my ends.

Operation Trident has launched their second murder investigation in a matter of days after a man was shot over the bank holiday weekend in Brockley.

23-year-old Matthew Clement was shot dead in the early hours of Sunday morning on Howson Road, South London. Officers were called at 2.03am to reports of a man lying injured in the street - he was pronounced dead at the scene.

There have been no arrests.

Operation Trident investigates black on black gun crime in the Afro-Caribbean community.

Detective Chief Inspector Neil Hutchison the murder took place "in a quiet residential street" and made a plea to the community "to find the perpetrators and get justice for Matthew and his family."

Adding:

"We need to speak to anyone who heard or saw people in Howson Road, Whitbread Road or the surrounding streets between midnight and 2am on Sunday, and to anyone who heard shots or sounds of a disturbance."

Operation Trident investigates black on black gun crime in the Afro-Caribbean community.

RIP Chubzie

End is getting nuts, very nuts.

Opinions on the Joint Enterprise issue.

[A Bit Better]

Haven't read the articles but reckon it'll be used in the case of that kid in the train station as like 7 people go charged for murder. Madness though. Imagine you go to fight and one person takes it too far next thing you're going down for murder.

[Lethaldabizzle2008]

Joint Enterpise is a good thing.

Getting youths thinkin about how the law works, and how they could get in trouble even if they arent technically involved has got to be a good thing.

Make you think twice about what youre doing.

But then its bait if ur wit some boys and summet pops off and sumone gets killed, you know you had nothing to do with it yet still go down.

Pros & Cons but more Pros than Cons IMO

[Mr Q]

I think that it is a good thing tbh, purely from how I have read the law itself.

People who are guilty of aiding/abetting/counsel/procument or inducing people into a crime, face the prospect of being charged with the same offence as the principal offender, as long as they are aware of what they are doing. In cases where it is a number of people who assist in the crime, I don't see why they shouldn't all face the same charge, especially where the circumstances are like that of the boy who was killed in Victoria.

[Wavant]

f*ck*ng hate Lewi

[Meticulous]

Joint Enterpise is a good thing.

How can potentially jailing innocent people be good?

[Guest Yilmaz]

silly law

negro induced however

[Mr. Martinez]

I remember being in school 7 years ago and the dudes from YAP telling us about this

True say it's easy for a child to think, I didn't stab him so i'm bless

In fact, one goon trying to talk to his youngers a long time ago on the bus

he actually said, it's nothing a whole bag of us man jump these guys, whoever puts the ting in him, no-one's going to see cos they'll be so many of us, they're not going to put all of us in jail, it's bless

all for this tbh