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Dizzee Rascal - OMM Interview


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Dizzee Rascal is not proud of everything in his past, he tells Ben Thompson in a remarkably frank interview. But he's more than happy with his astonishing new album Sunday April 22, 2007The Observer Last month, when 15-year-old Adam Regis was stabbed to death on the way home from the cinema in Plaistow - just a couple of tube stops from Dizzee Rascal's own teenage stamping grounds - headlines trumpeted another step towards an abyss of inner-city malevolence. This event, sad as it was, barely registered as news in the Rascal household.'It's normal,' Dizzee shrugs regretfully a few days later, in the midst of last-minute remastering duties on his third album. 'Just the everyday sh*t I knew growing up. There was another one the other day - on All Saints train station in Poplar. Two kids were fighting, and one punched the other, and knocked him down onto the train track ...'Article continues----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Not without good cause did the message on the inner sleeve of Dizzee Rascal's second album [showtime] read 'Black Britain stop dying!' It's not a case of Dizzee Rascal hearing these horror stories and thinking, 'It could've been me.' It was him.The first time I met this softly spoken east Londoner (real name Dylan Mills) was in the summer of 2003. Aged 18, and just back from his first trip to LA, he was sporting eye-catchingly mismatched trainers - one black, one white (a trend which has mysteriously refused to catch on) - and joking that the imminent release of his debut album left him with 'nothing much left to say'. 'Even I find myself boring sometimes,' he admitted with an infectious grin, 'then I realise it's because my life's on CD.'Five days later, between musical engagements in the Cypriot resort of Ayia Napa - then the rowdy playground of the turbulent UK garage scene - this talented and ebullient teenager, with everything to live for, was pulled off a moped and stabbed four times in the chest. This is the first of two facts that everyone who knows anything about Dizzee Rascal will already have at their command. The second is that shortly after this life-threatening event (if the main entry wound had been an inch to the left or right, it would have been fatal), his dazzlingly downbeat and compellingly claustrophobic debut album Boy in Da Corner won the Mercury Music Prize.While the careers of many rappers - from 50 Cent right down the hip-hop food chain - have survived and even flourished in the wake of the first of these, Dizzee is pretty much alone among his peers in evading the curse of the Mercury. The previous year, when his friend and fellow MC laureate Mike Skinner was nominated, the man behind the Streets was so alarmed at the 'coffee-table' stain a Mercury win might leave on his reputation that he didn't even attend the ceremony (a lapse in decorum that would seem to be exonerated by the subsequent decline in fortunes of eventual winner, Ms Dynamite).Dizzee, on the other hand, accepted the poison chalice with open arms, took it back to his mum's Bow council flat in triumph, and returned a year later to graciously present the prize to his successors. The Alice in Wonderland-style fearlessness with which he walks through each new door that opens for him is one key theme of his career. The other is the strength of the forces pulling him back.Three and a half years on from our first meeting, in the same west London record company offices - a badge of continuity which is in itself something of an achievement on Dizzee Rascal's part, given the parlous economic circumstances of British music's urban sector - the mismatched trainers have gone.'Getting sucked back in,' grimaces Dizzee, now a worldly-wise 22-year-old, 'that's the story of my f*cking life.' It would be easy to say that his third album, Maths & English, is the sound of Dizzee breaking free of the forces that seek to contain him, but it would not quite be true. It's more that he has used those pressures to push forward - turning negatives into positives with the ease of a practised alchemist. And it should take nothing away from his first two albums to say that his third is the most complete, intense and thrilling British hip hop record ever made. Bar none.From the rampant metal guitars of first single 'Sirens' (perhaps the first homegrown rap tune that can truly hold its own next to the crunching chrome and steel of Jay-Z's '99 Problems') through the ambient adventures of 'World Outside', to ear-opening collaborations with Lily Allen and Arctic Monkeys, Maths & English offers a crash course in the creative possibilities of a medium which many people thought was on its last legs. It's equally liable to amaze those who have heard everything Dizzee Rascal has done before, and those encountering his guttural eloquence for the very first time. This album also has a distinct political dimension. If David Cameron's 'hug a hoodie' speech is a nut, Maths & English is a sledgehammer.'The answer's there in everyone's faces,' Dizzee insists, 'and it's almost a cliche to repeat it, but people act the way they do because they feel they have no choice. Whether that's actually true or not is another thing, though. In the end, we're all responsible for our own decisions, and the point of this album is to say that we do have a choice. That's why the first track on it is "World Outside" (sample lyric: "There's a world outside of the manor, and I want you to see it"). But that's followed up by some raw and nasty sh*t, because that's what people know in the environment I'm talking about, and at least when they hear songs like "Sirens" and [heroically radio-unfriendly second single] "Pussyole", they can verify "OK, I can listen to this...."'While in sonic terms, Maths & English is Dizzee's most upfront and accessible record, it pulls no punches on the lyrical front. The first verse of 'Sirens' ('1 to the 2 to the 3 to the 4, Limehouse police knocking at my door, 12 black boots on my bedroom floor, what they want with Rascal I'm not sure') offers an economical snapshot of outlaw cool, worthy of comparison with anyone from Johnny Cash to Ice-T. But the second and third verses - detailing a street mugging that gets out of control - bring an intensity of physical and emotional detail that is downright disturbing. The different levels of lost innocence compressed into the apparently inarticulate couplet 'She went my school/ She saw it all' are the work of someone who is not afraid to ask himself difficult questions, as well as everyone else.Dizzee makes no bones that this story is autobiographical, and his participation in the real life incident which inspired it was not on the side of the angels. 'It's not clever, it's not good,' he shakes his head shamefacedly. 'I'm definitely not proud of some of the stuff I did as a youth, but that's where my mind-frame was at one point in my life, and I can't pretend those things didn't happen. I'm not glorifying them, I'm trying to make them into art ...'While the man who wrote 'Sirens' is in no doubt about its moral perspective - 'the whole song is just wrong really' - he admits to being 'surprised' at how easy people seem to find it to listen to. 'There's been lots of positive responses, but no one's actually said anything about the content.... I guess,' Dizzee continues, wryly, 'everyone likes a little urban story.'As if the ethics of this situation weren't complicated enough, the video to 'Sirens' features Dizzee - the fur trim on his parka marking him out as a true urban fox - being hunted through concrete walkways by redcoats on horseback. The purpose of this strangely fetishistic promo clip seems to be to present Dizzee as sexual prey. He certainly doesn't look all that desperate to escape, and the slow-motion chase culminates, somewhat luridly, in one of his white female pursuers being 'blooded' - fox hunt-style - with Dizzee's 'tail'.When this sequence is shown for the first time at a record label sales conference, Dizzee's noticeably buff physique attracts the admiration of master of ceremonies Simon Amstell. 'Why did you take your shirt off before being chased by a horse?' he demands flirtatiously. 'It was nice to see your nipples, anyway.' Dizzee - whose understanding of what such occasions require from him could not be more complete - smiles and waves.For all the apparent familiarity of its locations, the video was actually filmed in Romania. 'They've got estates over there that look just like ours,' Dizzee explains, 'except there are still bullet holes in the buildings... and that's in the nice part. It's definitely being opened up a bit, because they've just joined the EU, but away from the touristy areas, it's a deep and eerie vibe. It's like my friend over there was saying, "The facade is thin" - it feels like anything could happen at any time, and sometimes, it does.'A lascivious cackle indicates that Dizzee's trip to the former Eastern Bloc was not all doom and gloom. Where Showtime - recorded in the aftermath of the attempt on his life - found Dizzee pent up with fury and paranoia, and his debut sometimes felt like the work of a man whose music was the only thing preventing him from being overwhelmed by solitude, the mood of Maths & English is far more exuberant. From the summery 'Da Feelin' (a gleeful collaboration with one of his musical heroes, drum'n'bass don Shy FX), to Kiss FM-worthy dance tracks like 'Flex' - which is as close as Dizzee is ever likely to get to a funky house tune - it feels as if a weight has been lifted from his shoulders.'A lot of raves, a lot of drugs, and a lot of sex have kind of accounted for some of that,' says Dizzee, cheerfully. Does he think all those good times have calmed him down? 'I don't know about calm, but it's a different kind of energy - there's no feeling like seeing however many thousand people jumping up and down, bubbling and happy, all because of you. I could do that all day and all night. The world would be a better place if it was just about that.'An upcoming Channel 4 documentary by video-maker Goetz Werner (to be screened on the weekend before Maths & English's release) will shed more light on Dizzee Rascal's fun side. It contains a brief but memorable encounter with Jonathan Ross, in which Britain's highest-paid broadcaster is encouraged to spit Dizzee's 'Showtime' verse, 'Inside, outside rah rah rah ...' ('He's a cheeky bastard,' says Dizzee, admiringly. 'I wanted to hear him saying "wah wah wah" because he has trouble with his r's'). This film also contains footage of Dizzee's debut as a speaker at the Oxford University Union. This was not his first visit to Oxford. An earlier appearance at a black-tie ball - playing 'Fix Up Look Sharp' to an audience in ball-gowns and dinner suits - went down so well, particularly with the ladies (and, indeed, the Ladies) in the house, that the memory still prompts a whoop of delight. 'It'd make people think twice about Oxford University, I can tell you,' Dizzee slaps his knee expansively. 'That is one of my major achievements - coming from Bow ... Thanks!'Are Oxbridge May Balls now an annual feature of the Dizzee Rascal calendar?'That'd just be greedy,' he grins. 'There's no point in chasing that first high - it's never the same.'The feeling of release which permeates Maths & English's many more expansive moments is still balanced by an encroaching sense of dread. The rhythm track for 'World Outside' is an ominous sharpening of knives, sampled from a martial arts film soundtrack. (When Dizzee performed this song with Matthew Herbert's Big Band at the Barbican's Jazz Britannia festival a couple of years back, someone actually played the knives.) And 'World's Gone Crazy' is another of those sombre metaphysical meditations at which Dizzee has always excelled.'The direction changed a lot with this album,' Dizzee admits. 'It started out with a lot more reflective tunes about how sad sh*t is and what a f*cked up world we live in - because that was kind of where my head was at the time. But then I started listening to a lot of different music - old OutKast stuff ,Young Jeezy, Dem Franchize Boyz, D4L's 'Laffy Taffy': that whole Atlanta 'snap' thing - and it got me back into the mould of that jump-up party sh*t, so I wanted to make banging tunes - tunes that people can bump to and be ignorant to.'While American influences were vital to the creative evolution of Maths & English, the album never compromises its distinctively British identity. Even when US rap luminaries Bun B and Pimp C step up to the mic. 'Those are two of the most important people in America, as far as the hip-hop scene is concerned,' says Dizzee, proudly. 'These are certified gangsta rappers. The real deal. It's not a joke. And they're on a grime tune - respecting it, and understanding that I'm different, but in some way we come from the same place. For me, that's a real achievement for British hip hop. It proves we can be accepted by America, but only if we do things our own way.' This doesn't have to mean making music which is worthy and dull. 'Because one of my early songs contained the line "f*ck the glitz and glamour", people take that out of context,' Dizzee says. 'As far as Americans doing it, and it being sold to me - like Snoop Dogg - I love that sh*t. But I know it's being done by them in the highest, best way it could be, so what's the point in me doing it? Coming from where I come from - a council estate in east London. The similarities are there, but it's not gonna work. Not blowing my own horn too much, but look back at my catalogue: that's some sh*t which could only have been done by an English boy.'Hip hop is the way it is because of America,' Dizzee continues. 'But I don't think it could ever be like that here - not so much because of the money, but because of the mind-set. There's the work ethic, for one thing. It's like a machine out there ... we've had that over here with rock music and pop, but not really as far as hip hop or R&B is concerned. America is the land of the hustler: it's bigger, bolder, flasher, more in your face, whereas England's more about attention to detail - trying to be refined and classy, and I think a lot of people in the urban scene in this country have had trouble accepting that. Because Britain's a different place demographically - there are a lot fewer black people for a start - you do look a bit silly walking around with a hundred grand gold chain on your chest. You stand out. We don't wear bandanas and carry rags ... "Look, really now, leave it alone." Some people are still having trouble rapping in their own accents - that kills me.'The apparent determination of Britain's wannabe gangster fraternity to emulate their US role models' self-destructive propensities - the 'beefs', feuds and grudges with which first the UK garage and then grime scenes have been bedevilled - have threatened Dizzee's physical as well as his metaphorical survival. And his oft-stated desire to rise above this futile cycle of violence has only made this particular tall poppy stand out all the more.'Paranoid', one of the new album's more sinister moments, seems to be outlining some kind of kidnap plot. 'They were meant to be my friends as well,' Dizzee nods, ruefully. 'When you start to make a bit of money, people switch on you. They get the wrong end of the stick. They think you're this or that, but really it's just that they miss you. And 'cause of the kind of people they are, they don't deal with it properly: they can only respond with violence. But then, when they actually see you, they realise, "Oh, he ain't changed that much really."'For all his forgiving bravado - 'They weren't really gonna kidnap me, they were just yapping' - it's no wonder a rare trip inside Dizzee Rascal's studio raises security concerns for his management. A certain amount of geographical vagueness is usually requisite on these occasions, but in Dizzee's case, it's a condition of admission that no clue should be given as to whether we're in north or south or west or east London.'Ultimately, we can do without the inconvenience,' insists his not-to-be-messed-with manager Nick. 'You don't want a bunch of f*cking 12-year-olds outside. Not because it's threatening or violent, it's just a pain in the arse. But then obviously it extends from there, in the same way that anyone in any position in society who's got something more than others is a viable target. They want to kidnap David Beckham's kids, don't they? And it goes down from them to the guy who's got a bag of crisps more than you have.'On arriving at the top-secret studio, the expected atmosphere of urban paranoia is somewhat mitigated by a house requirement to remove shoes at the doorway. The resulting line of neatly paired trainers makes the place feel like a mosque. The second surprise of the afternoon is that Dizzee's manager and his enigmatic producer, Cage - the man at the controls for pretty much all of his biggest hits - turn out to be one and the same person: a genial, cockney man-mountain with a dangerous weakness for Haribo sweets.Inside the recently built studio, Dizzee is dancing around to a newly constructed beat. This sinuous, hyperactive rhythm - 'the Prodigy meets Mr Oizo' is how I'd trail it - has him bobbing and weaving like a hip-hop Prince Naseem. There are no words as yet, but they seem to be percolating within him, in the same way that a cat might summon up a hairball.As a huge jar of jelly beans is passed around, Dizzee and his mentor reminisce about their first encounter. Aged 16, Dizzee came into the studio in Deptford where Cage was recording a vocal hook for the Roll Deep Crew. The track in question, 'Bounce', had been written by flaky E3 magus Wiley - who will crop up again in our story. 'I'd been bothering Wiley for ages, man,' Dizzee remembers. 'He just thought, "Ah - little kid in the area." He probably didn't take me serious, but you come to the point where you stop talking and just do.'Cage finds the track on his computer, and Dizzee listens with his head in his hands. His voice sounds a little higher than the gruff, charismatic squawk of Maths & English - in fact, it's barely broken - but it's no less menacing. His naivety is only momentarily betrayed by an eager declaration of his willingness to play 'local raves and concert shows'.'... And funerals, and bar mitzvahs,' Cage quips, drily. What did he think of this cocksure newcomer? 'He was awake, that's what I thought, 'cause I was around a lot of very sleepy people. Everyone's sitting there in a coma, and he gets more work done in 10 minutes than they did in two days. He comes in, done his verse. He's all over the mixing desk trying to find out how it works, and in terms of studio technique, he's a natural. So that was all good and impressive. But then, he started smoking.'You've got to remember,' Cage qualifies, 'that Dizzee's in a group where people are four, five years older than him. Obviously he's got to over-compensate for being young and being the whipping boy. But he's told that this is blessed, high-grade strong weed - what you'd call "two pull" ...' Dizzee picks up the story: 'So I went at it - it was a challenge.''The next thing I knew,' Cage continues, 'he went outside and sat down in the middle of this chemical dump by the factory next door. They used to leave all this sh*t out there which would burn through your jeans. I suppose I felt paternal towards Dizzee. Probably because no one else did. He was in bits really. So I was chatting to him and alerted him to the fact that his jeans might rot. But then I realised that there were deeper issues than that, 'cause he was still sat there three hours later.'Dizzee's dad had died when he was just two years old. And while it would be crass to make too much of any subliminal father/son dynamic between the rapper and his manager/producer, when the idea is brought up Dizzee nods vehemently: 'Yeah, some of that as well.'When Dizzee got stabbed in Ayia Napa, it was Cage who took him out of circulation as soon as he came out of hospital, so he couldn't get caught up in recriminations and rumours about which members of a rival London crew he might have got on the wrong side of. Before that, he had helped guide him through the record contract minefield to sign with the maverick-friendly XL. 'With the Prodigy they took a rave act that had more to them, and managed to make them a worldwide thing,' the manager observes, shrewdly. 'And that's pretty much what they've done with Dizzee.''I don't have any memories of him at all,' Dizzee says, quietly, of his dad. 'It was definitely difficult when I was young - you play the cards you're dealt, but obviously something like that can shape the choices you make in life. My mum was full on, and she did the best she could - she beat me when she had to. But I definitely had a problem with authority. I just remember feeling really suppressed at school. I think a lot of young black boys feel that way growing up. Whether it's being poor, and just not understanding, kind of, why you? Whatever the reason. You end up lashing out. There's so much that you take until eventually you just say "f*ck it!"''You were certainly channelling aggression when I first met you,' grins Cage. From the moment Dizzee began to see his musical talent as his way out of the cycle of petty crime and school exclusions in which he was on the point of becoming caught up, he applied himself to it with a ferocity which both intimidated and annoyed his peers. 'I started getting better than people,' he remembers. 'Let's be real, that's what happened.'The catholic nature of the young Rascal's musical tastes had always got him noticed, whether he was performing Nirvana songs at school concerts, or cranking up the volume on his favourite heavy metal tracks when his friends were playing football outside his window ('People thought I was crazy,' he admits, 'and I was an attention seeker, but I always loved that music, and I was serious about trying to make them like it'). But as he began to establish himself on east London's nascent grime scene, he soon found out that not everyone was as broad-minded as he was.'It wasn't even called grime then,' Dizzee points out. 'It was just a bunch of kids whose only avenues were pirate radio and the kind of raves that no journalists would ever go to. And the music was just the next step on from garage and drum'n'bass, for all the kids who couldn't get into clubs, because they didn't have the suit and the shoes. We were street boys - talking about what we knew.' What started out as immediacy soon turned to parochialism. And Dizzee's willingness (and ability) to reach out beyond established boundaries attracted criticism from the outset.'All that bitching and moaning,' he grimaces. 'All that "I'm still in the 'hood" rubbish. I don't have to answer to none of these d*ckheads - and you can write that as well. It's just a matter of finding people who have something to bring to the table, so we can connect and break bread. Everything I do is for the music - I want to master it like Bruce Lee mastered martial arts.'This quest has led Dizzee to tour with Pharrell, Nas, Jay-Z and Sean Paul. And among those he has connected and broken bread with are Arctic Monkeys, and Lily Allen. Invited to support the Red Hot Chili Peppers on their European stadium tour, Dizzee took the opportunity to 'try and understand the power and intensity music's got to have to get across to people in that situation'. A crowd-pleasing monsters of rock bootleg designed to win over sceptical fans of the West Coast punk-funk behemoths would ultimately mutate into the metallic guitar frenzy of 'Sirens' (the first half of which is played - on his knee, 'like a washboard' - by Cage, the second by a specially commissioned Korn-tribute ensemble).When Arctic Monkeys asked him to contribute a few verses to the B-side of 'Brianstorm', Dizzee and Cage cheekily snagged an Alex Turner vocal sample and turned it into a new track which is actually an improvement on the slightly tepid original. And as for 'Wannabe', Dizzee's uproarious collaboration with Lily Allen - who might fairly be said to have owed him a favour, after borrowing his abbreviation for the title of her single 'LDN' - well, that should surely be a monster summer hit in the making. It's far and away the best thing Allen has ever done, finally fulfilling her destiny as the urban Betty Boop.On the day of my final meeting with Dizzee - at a Camden mastering studio, in early April - that track is one of two main topics of conversation. It turns out that there's some confusion with Lily's record company over the rights to release it as a single. It would be a real shame if industry politics denied the British public their right to enjoy Dizzee's immortal lines: 'Beef ain't nothing to me, you wally, why don't you just kick back be jolly, stay at home with a cup of tea, watch Corrie.'The other pressing issue is Dizzee's former musical brother in arms Wiley, whose new album - self-contradictorily titled Playtime is Over - has been scheduled for release on the same day as Maths & English, in what seems to be a doomed bid to incite Blur vs Oasis-style media overkill. The already overheated issue of Dizzee and Wiley's now defunct friendship has been further inflamed by the leaking onto the internet of one of the former's new songs, 'Pussyole', a hilariously uncompromising assault on a former friend, 'which Wiley thinks is about him'.'That was never going to defuse the situation really, was it?' Dizzee shrugs, regretfully, and settles down with some trepidation to listen for the first time to 'Letter 2 Dizzee' - the album track that is Wiley's latest attempt to re-establish the lines of communication. His face, it must be said, is a picture - progressing from polite interest to utter bewilderment to resigned acceptance in response to Wiley's bizarre hotchpotch of hurt feelings and blustering self-justification.'This whole situation,' Dizzee says, wearily, 'is just so very gay. But it seems to be a constant part of my life, 'cause he ain't gonna shut up. I would have done anything for Wiley, man, outside of music, and he knows that. That's why this has carried on for years. If I hadn't put this whole thing behind me, I would never have made Maths & English. We could be shouting things at each other for ever - that's what we did on the estate. It's normal, standard, just a habit - but it'd be a shame and a waste of music to fall back into that.'Almost as if he can feel himself being sucked into a ludicrous soap opera, Dizzee goes back on message. 'Every album I do is hopefully a living, breathing thing,' he insists. 'I want it to be real and I want it to be jumping out and affecting people. There is always going to be mad sh*t and negative sh*t in there, because I'm a person and I'm no saint, and those things are a part of me. But I want to give something back as well, especially knowing that there's youngsters listening. I'm only one person, but if I can keep as much balance as possible, then I've done my part.'That balance shifts a little in the week of Maths & English's completion. XL, having been largely kept out of the creative process, institutes what Cage describes as 'a little A&R flurry'. The original concise and perfectly-formed 12-track running order is somewhat unsatisfactorily bolstered to 14, with the unwelcome addition of two of the more rudimentary, blustering, formulaic grime numbers which Dizzee seemed to have left behind him. And instead of dropping the one obvious weak track - a half-realised, all-singing John Lydon tribute-skit, rejoicing in the title of 'Suk My Dik' - it's 'Lemon', a tangy rewrite of 'Puff the Magic Dragon', that goes (for the hilarious reason that the writers of the original song apparently 'don't want it associated with drug use').Those last minute cavils aside, the finished product is still a triumph. Maths & English - the beats and the words, the cash and the culture, the formulas and the creativity - is an education in itself. 'Everything you're thinking,' Dizzee Rascal signs off, 'that's what it is.'Dizzee on working with ...Lily AllenThe producers Futurecuts already had the original sample from Bugsy Malone - 'So you wanna be a boxer?' And I really liked it. It's skippy and happy, and you know people are gonna sing it. But we wanted to give it a twist, and changing it to 'gangster' seemed the obvious way to go. We got Lily to come in - she was really busy but she made the time. She had her bit locked from the beginning, but I redid mine three or four times. I had loads of lyrics to start with, and it was a question of boiling them down. Making a normal tune is one thing, but a hit is a different story - you've got to finish it off to a tee.Arctic MonkeysThe first time I saw them on TV doing that 'Dancefloor' tune, I thought, 'I want to work with these boys.' Alex Turner's words are almost like rap lyrics, and it's really important to both of us to sing in our own accents. They sent me over some tracks and Alex came down to the studio while I laid down a couple of verses for their song 'Temptation' [b-side to 'Brianstorm']. Afterwards, we borrowed a sample of his vocal and built our own track around it. It's hip hop, so we're allowed!
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lol i guess you missed the "Wiley on RWD" series.he said on westwood, hes retired from the grime scene, meaning all that younger sh*t..... sayin hes now on money making and spreading the music thru the world on a professional level.

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lol i guess you missed the "Wiley on RWD" series.he said on westwood, hes retired from the grime scene, meaning all that younger sh*t..... sayin hes now on money making and spreading the music thru the world on a professional level.
LoL meaning his all hype trying to make things interesting. Was just a ploy, wanted to know if people would care.Oh and I just read other topic so... f*ck Westwood, when RWD's up his the first man everyone should send for.
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