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David Cameron on Tuition Fees

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Everyone with an opinion on the tuition fees should watch this cos there is alot of hearsay going on and I'm not even trying to explain what's actually being planned. I leave that to the man in charge...

Mans talkin a big bunch of sense imo. And before you ask, I didnt vote for either Conservative or Lib Dem, but I did vote.

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Guest Waka Flocka Dave

always wondered, do these dudes even know what thyere gonna say before they make a speech?

swear they gt speech writers n sh*t n are always busy, dnt they jus glance over it n sh*t

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He explained that pretty well but it's easy to take issue with a lot of what he said.

• He claims that the stage at which you apply for University isn't the best vehicle for social mobility and that by the time people get to university it's too late so funding needs to be pumped into education at an earlier stage. That might be true but if that's the case what is the following about?

Michael Gove today cancelled Labour's school building programme, suspending projects for 715 new schools as part of the coalition's latest tranche of spending cuts, which also saw funding culled for new housing projects, school swimming pools and eco-towns.

I've seen numerous teachers saying that we're trying to educate children for the 21st century using facilities that aren't up to the task, I'm pretty sure secondary school must be the key stage he was referring to?

• He says that the current economic situation we're in is largely responsible for the system they've implemented, if that's the case once we're out of this situation are we going to see a proportional change in the system for higher education?

• He says that universities are becoming complacent and that the standards are slipping but simply cutting the number of applicants wouldn't be acceptable so these measures are to ensure that everyone still has the opportunity to go to university.

The chancellor praised universities as "jewels in our economic crown" but the spending review outlined cuts of 40% in their teaching budgets. The spending review cuts the higher education budget from £7.1bn to £4.2bn by 2014.

So the way to raise standards is to keep the same number of students whilst having less tutors? one of my friends went in to see our old tutor the other day and he was saying his position looks like it will be axed pretty shortly - he is the course leader ffs. Less tutors but the same number of students equals less attention and guidance which translates to better education and higher fees?

• He keeps mentioning that everyone should have the opportunity to go to university but is that enough? Surely if you want to study a subject that has a viable career path you should be able to rely on receiving a quality higher education course as preparation but the Conservatives are prioritising the courses they see as most valuable and shunning the more creative ones.

Funding for arts and humanities is likely to be hardest hit, with government support maintained for science, technology, engineering and maths degrees.

Creative courses have their place and fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

That's what I picked up on with a few minutes thought so I'm sure politicians who have access to all sorts of data and independent reports can find genuine concerns with this system.

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David Cameron put's a good spin to the protests, what he's not telling you is that everything being done is setting up the extinction of millions of people from all over the world. The poorest most unfortunate people in this planet.

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

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Guest Waka Flocka Dave

saw on the news some uni, i think it was Buckinghamshire or new hertfordshire, deffoa shire in there, an arts uni, will lose all of its funding, ALL

thats f*cked

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Guest Waka Flocka Dave

saw on the news some uni, i think it was Buckinghamshire or new hertfordshire, deffoa shire in there, an arts uni, will lose all of its funding, ALL

thats f*cked

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Guest Rorschach

Allow shire-folk having to travel abroad for an education again ffs

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http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5370

Boy, you can't do selling out like the Lib Dems do selling out.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has today come out strongly against Coalition arguments to cut the Educational Maintenance Allowance.

In a report posted on their site tonight they dismiss many of the arguments made by the Coalition. The IFS also says that if the government wanted to be consistent, it would also drop payments of Child Benefit to households with children over 16 who are in full-time education, as it had a similar impact. But they haven’t.

The Government defends its intention to scrap EMA – and replace it with a smaller payment – on the grounds that the EMA is expensive and fails to deliver enough bang for its buck.

What does the IFS study find? (their statements turned into points)

1. Previous work by IFS researchers found that the EMA significantly increased participation rates in post-16 education among young adults who were eligible to receive it.

2. The costs of providing EMA were likely to be exceeded in the long run by the higher wages that its recipients would go to enjoy in future.

3. A simple cost-benefit analysis mentioned above suggests that even taking into account the level of “wastage” (i.e. people who would have gone into education anyway even if not receiving EMAs), the costs of EMA are completely offset.

4. The key assumption behind the Government’s methodology for calculating the “deadweight” is that the impact on participation is the only outcome that matters. But the EMA may have other benefits: … for example through better attendance, or more study time as a result of not having to take on a part-time job.

5. Even if the EMA had no impact on educational outcomes it would still represent a transfer of resources to low-income households with children, which may in its own right represent a valuable policy objective.

The IFS also points out that several other Coalition policies, such as the temporary relief of Employer National Insurance Contributions (NICs) for new businesses located outside the South East and Eastern England, had more “wastage” but were put in place anyway.

To that extent, they say, the Educational Maintenance Allowance represented good value for money.

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• He says that the current economic situation we're in is largely responsible for the system they've implemented, if that's the case once we're out of this situation are we going to see a proportional change in the system for higher education?

This.

Recession has been the perfect opportunity for the tories to push through their age old agenda of cuts to public funding and moves towards more privitisation.

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

Can you think of single prominent person in the creative industries who got one of these mickey mouse degrees? I don't think you can. Actually that quote was thought up by the Saatchi brothers; Maurice Saatchi went to the LSE, Charles didn't go to university.

I think its tiresome to accuse the Lib Dems of selling out. They made these promises in the eventuality that they would form the next government. Since they are not the only party in government, and indeed the junior party in government, how can you expect Nick Clegg to implement every manifesto promise without dilution. Furthermore, the more senior labour figures did not want to enter into a coalition with the LDs, and if they did, then they would have formed a minority government, which could have been brought down at any moment and another general election would have to be called.

On EMAs...Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Speaking anecdotally, EMAs were just spent on consumables, items that made no discernable difference to how successful students were academically. I feel that if you need to be paid and coerced to attend college then you dont value education. You think Chinese/ other developing nations kids (soon to be our competitors) need to be paid to go to college?

"Recession has been the perfect opportunity for the tories to push through their age old agenda of cuts to public funding and moves towards more privitisation."

This is disingenuous. Although you might think Tories are some evil cunts who enjoy to make working people's lives miserable. There is actually a good reason for cuts they implement, to fix up the economic mess bequeathed to them by previous labour governments. i.e. from Labour calling in the IMF and the winter of discontent in the 70s to more recently under Gordon Brown. The country is broke. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The wealth created in the labour years were all an illusion, just asset bubbles. Most of the jobs created in the Labour years were just public sector jobs that don't create any wealth. Nobody's privatizing the educuation system . The Browne report was commissioned remember by a Labour government. Blair and Brown recognised that the State alone cannot foot the bill for the desperate investment that our universities need.

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

Can you think of single prominent person in the creative industries who got one of these mickey mouse degrees? I don't think you can. Actually that quote was thought up by the Saatchi brothers; Maurice Saatchi went to the LSE, Charles didn't go to university.

From my experience most of my collegues in the various creative companies i have worked in have all done these "mickey mouse" courses. They don't need to be "prominent" names. They are the talented people who get their credits but not "rock star" fame. They are the talented people that bring in business to this country (games/sfx/ movie post production) through their respective industries which is continously being squeezed to death by this and the past government leading to all the talent going off overseas.

Are some of these courses flawed? yes. Are they essential for doin those creative jobs in particular? For the most part but you do get some exceptional talent without any qualifications but that is few and far between. Most of the OGs don't have these degrees because they were not around then 20-30+ years ago.

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Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

Can you think of single prominent person in the creative industries who got one of these mickey mouse degrees? I don't think you can. Actually that quote was thought up by the Saatchi brothers; Maurice Saatchi went to the LSE, Charles didn't go to university.

From my experience most of my collegues in the various creative companies i have worked in have all done these "mickey mouse" courses. They don't need to be "prominent" names. They are the talented people who get their credits but not "rock star" fame. They are the talented people that bring in business to this country (games/sfx/ movie post production) through their respective industries which is continously being squeezed to death by this and the past government leading to all the talent going off overseas.

Are some of these courses flawed? yes. Are they essential for doin those creative jobs in particular? For the most part but you do get some exceptional talent without any qualifications but that is few and far between. Most of the OGs don't have these degrees because they were not around then 20-30+ years ago.

Ok yeah games/sfx/ etc. Those degrees may be useful and they have a practical application. Allow me I thinking of degrees like media studies.

All the talent are moving overseas because of more favourable tax rates overseas.

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Guest Esquilax

Creative courses have their place fuel some of the industries the country actually excels at, the Tories most famous campaign strap line 'Labour isn't working' almost certainly wasn't thought up by a maths student.

feeling this quote

Can you think of single prominent person in the creative industries who got one of these mickey mouse degrees? I don't think you can. Actually that quote was thought up by the Saatchi brothers; Maurice Saatchi went to the LSE, Charles didn't go to university.

I think its tiresome to accuse the Lib Dems of selling out. They made these promises in the eventuality that they would form the next government. Since they are not the only party in government, and indeed the junior party in government, how can you expect Nick Clegg to implement every manifesto promise without dilution. Furthermore, the more senior labour figures did not want to enter into a coalition with the LDs, and if they did, then they would have formed a minority government, which could have been brought down at any moment and another general election would have to be called.

On EMAs...Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Speaking anecdotally, EMAs were just spent on consumables, items that made no discernable difference to how successful students were academically. I feel that if you need to be paid and coerced to attend college then you dont value education. You think Chinese/ other developing nations kids (soon to be our competitors) need to be paid to go to college?

"Recession has been the perfect opportunity for the tories to push through their age old agenda of cuts to public funding and moves towards more privitisation."

This is disingenuous. Although you might think Tories are some evil cunts who enjoy to make working people's lives miserable. There is actually a good reason for cuts they implement, to fix up the economic mess bequeathed to them by previous labour governments. i.e. from Labour calling in the IMF and the winter of discontent in the 70s to more recently under Gordon Brown. The country is broke. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The wealth created in the labour years were all an illusion, just asset bubbles. Most of the jobs created in the Labour years were just public sector jobs that don't create any wealth. Nobody's privatizing the educuation system . The Browne report was commissioned remember by a Labour government. Blair and Brown recognised that the State alone cannot foot the bill for the desperate investment that our universities need.

So f*ck*ng true.

I'd pos you twice if I could

Been saying this from EARLY

Even if it does help the minority to fund their education, it's still not worth the high cost in incurs.

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Guest Esquilax

Yeah, cuz I didn't know ANYONE who wasn't in private education, even though some people I went to school with were ALSO entitled to it

You f*ck*ng spastic

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Mate stop hating

EMA WAS SHOWER

every friday it paid for an 8ball, 6 beers and a take away, all courtesy of your parents

ARD

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Guest Esquilax

Did anyone see that breh on the news just now :lol:

"WE NEED THAT MONEY FOR THE WEEKEND- I MEAN, UH, HOW ARE WE GONNA LIVE?"

"How would you reply to those who say we're going through hard times and need to tighten our belts, and that the country needs that money?"

"...NO COMMENT"

f*ck*ng hell.

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