Roberto Martinez

[FANTA]

Its a valid question that why did it take till November to find a system? Cleverly was never there's, N'Zogbia they knew was leaving.

Well Wenger hardly had the best of starts after losing two of his best players...

You really comparing Martinez to Wenger?

[TF S4DK]

If a 20 year veteran credited with having some of the best contacts in the game at one of the biggest clubs in Europe struggles to evolve his team after losing his two of his best players, I think it's unfair to criticise Martinez for struggling too.

He's given them a fighting chance of staying up, and he's done it on tactical nous as opposed to relying on moments of individual brilliance. His players are shite.

He took to November to find a system... A system which hasn't yet guaranteed them survival... He lost Cleverly in May, and N'Zogbia in July...

Wenger took till August 31st (after losing both players in August) to face reality - buy replacements, blend them, and get them playing, he had a system, he just didnt have enough players, now for a team that was "any Stoke now they lost Fabregas & Nasri" to be 3rd, well... Like I said at comparing the two... Wenger now needs to face the reality that his team needs more quality to win shit and he has another close season to adddress that.

Martinez on the other hand if he stays at Wigan next season & they stay up, no doubt we will be dicussing them trying to beat relegation again this time next season too.

[Young £]

If a 20 year veteran credited with having some of the best contacts in the game at one of the biggest clubs in Europe struggles to evolve his team after losing his two of his best players, I think it's unfair to criticise Martinez for struggling too.

He's given them a fighting chance of staying up, and he's done it on tactical nous as opposed to relying on moments of individual brilliance. His players are shite.

He took to November to find a system... A system which hasn't yet guaranteed them survival... He lost Cleverly in May, and N'Zogbia in July...

Wenger took till August 31st (after losing both players in August) to face reality - buy replacements, blend them, and get them playing, he had a system, he just didnt have enough players, now for a team that was "any Stoke now they lost Fabregas & Nasri" to be 3rd, well... Like I said at comparing the two... Wenger now needs to face the reality that his team needs more quality to win shit and he has another close season to adddress that.

Martinez on the other hand if he stays at Wigan next season & they stay up, no doubt we will be dicussing them trying to beat relegation again this time next season too.

Wigan will stay up, then he should receive the plaudits of devising of a new plan, no matter how long it took him, if they go down which i doubt then fair enough

You making excuses for Wenger is the laughable thing, considering the resources and organisation at a club like Arsenal compared to Wigan. It was noted Martinez was trying to get Cleverley on loan again, how much money of the N Zogbia transfer did he get to spend?, its 10 times harder for him at a club like Wigan. Lol @ Wenger lost of both of them in august, he knew Fab wanted to return and knew Nasri was leaving, the deals were concluded in August yes but im sure Wenger admitted defeat long before that mate

You say Wigan are not yet safe but say Wenger guided yous to 3rd like your Champions League spot or 3rd place is guranteed?

And I think the signs show that when Wigan stay up, they have laid the foundations for a good team next season, the thing that determines a relegation battle is the amount of money Martinez will have to spend, which like JJ said compared to the teams in and around them is nothing

[Da Luv Doc]

I agree with both parties, in a way.

[TF S4DK]

If a 20 year veteran credited with having some of the best contacts in the game at one of the biggest clubs in Europe struggles to evolve his team after losing his two of his best players, I think it's unfair to criticise Martinez for struggling too.

He's given them a fighting chance of staying up, and he's done it on tactical nous as opposed to relying on moments of individual brilliance. His players are shite.

He took to November to find a system... A system which hasn't yet guaranteed them survival... He lost Cleverly in May, and N'Zogbia in July...

Wenger took till August 31st (after losing both players in August) to face reality - buy replacements, blend them, and get them playing, he had a system, he just didnt have enough players, now for a team that was "any Stoke now they lost Fabregas & Nasri" to be 3rd, well... Like I said at comparing the two... Wenger now needs to face the reality that his team needs more quality to win shit and he has another close season to adddress that.

Martinez on the other hand if he stays at Wigan next season & they stay up, no doubt we will be dicussing them trying to beat relegation again this time next season too.

Wigan will stay up, then he should receive the plaudits of devising of a new plan, no matter how long it took him, if they go down which i doubt then fair enough

You making excuses for Wenger is the laughable thing, considering the resources and organisation at a club like Arsenal compared to Wigan. It was noted Martinez was trying to get Cleverley on loan again, how much money of the N Zogbia transfer did he get to spend?, its 10 times harder for him at a club like Wigan. Lol @ Wenger lost of both of them in august, he knew Fab wanted to return and knew Nasri was leaving, the deals were concluded in August yes but im sure Wenger admitted defeat long before that mate

You say Wigan are not yet safe but say Wenger guided yous to 3rd like your Champions League spot or 3rd place is guranteed?

And I think the signs show that when Wigan stay up, they have laid the foundations for a good team next season, the thing that determines a relegation battle is the amount of money Martinez will have to spend, which like JJ said compared to the teams in and around them is nothing

Looks at table sees all three promoted teams above Wigan...

[Salamanca]

he's an average premiership manager, you lot r hype.

[Young £]

If a 20 year veteran credited with having some of the best contacts in the game at one of the biggest clubs in Europe struggles to evolve his team after losing his two of his best players, I think it's unfair to criticise Martinez for struggling too.

He's given them a fighting chance of staying up, and he's done it on tactical nous as opposed to relying on moments of individual brilliance. His players are shite.

He took to November to find a system... A system which hasn't yet guaranteed them survival... He lost Cleverly in May, and N'Zogbia in July...

Wenger took till August 31st (after losing both players in August) to face reality - buy replacements, blend them, and get them playing, he had a system, he just didnt have enough players, now for a team that was "any Stoke now they lost Fabregas & Nasri" to be 3rd, well... Like I said at comparing the two... Wenger now needs to face the reality that his team needs more quality to win shit and he has another close season to adddress that.

Martinez on the other hand if he stays at Wigan next season & they stay up, no doubt we will be dicussing them trying to beat relegation again this time next season too.

Wigan will stay up, then he should receive the plaudits of devising of a new plan, no matter how long it took him, if they go down which i doubt then fair enough

You making excuses for Wenger is the laughable thing, considering the resources and organisation at a club like Arsenal compared to Wigan. It was noted Martinez was trying to get Cleverley on loan again, how much money of the N Zogbia transfer did he get to spend?, its 10 times harder for him at a club like Wigan. Lol @ Wenger lost of both of them in august, he knew Fab wanted to return and knew Nasri was leaving, the deals were concluded in August yes but im sure Wenger admitted defeat long before that mate

You say Wigan are not yet safe but say Wenger guided yous to 3rd like your Champions League spot or 3rd place is guranteed?

And I think the signs show that when Wigan stay up, they have laid the foundations for a good team next season, the thing that determines a relegation battle is the amount of money Martinez will have to spend, which like JJ said compared to the teams in and around them is nothing

Looks at table sees all three promoted teams above Wigan...

QPR have spent how much?

Swansea is a club HE laid the foundations for as he explained in the article

and Norwich have a manager who is arguably equal or better than him

[Heero Yuy]

he's an average premiership manager, you lot r hype.

Pardew is hype

[Guest M12]

Pardew took the old school approach.

"you're a decent player. Got any mates that can play up front. Get them down for a trial, we'll have a look"

*team changes from load of white lads to ethnics. White lads start bredding the new ethnics*

[Heero Yuy]

Pardew took the old school approach.

"you're a decent player. Got any mates that can play up front. Get them down for a trial, we'll have a look"

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[TF S4DK]

If a 20 year veteran credited with having some of the best contacts in the game at one of the biggest clubs in Europe struggles to evolve his team after losing his two of his best players, I think it's unfair to criticise Martinez for struggling too.

He's given them a fighting chance of staying up, and he's done it on tactical nous as opposed to relying on moments of individual brilliance. His players are shite.

He took to November to find a system... A system which hasn't yet guaranteed them survival... He lost Cleverly in May, and N'Zogbia in July...

Wenger took till August 31st (after losing both players in August) to face reality - buy replacements, blend them, and get them playing, he had a system, he just didnt have enough players, now for a team that was "any Stoke now they lost Fabregas & Nasri" to be 3rd, well... Like I said at comparing the two... Wenger now needs to face the reality that his team needs more quality to win shit and he has another close season to adddress that.

Martinez on the other hand if he stays at Wigan next season & they stay up, no doubt we will be dicussing them trying to beat relegation again this time next season too.

Wigan will stay up, then he should receive the plaudits of devising of a new plan, no matter how long it took him, if they go down which i doubt then fair enough

You making excuses for Wenger is the laughable thing, considering the resources and organisation at a club like Arsenal compared to Wigan. It was noted Martinez was trying to get Cleverley on loan again, how much money of the N Zogbia transfer did he get to spend?, its 10 times harder for him at a club like Wigan. Lol @ Wenger lost of both of them in august, he knew Fab wanted to return and knew Nasri was leaving, the deals were concluded in August yes but im sure Wenger admitted defeat long before that mate

You say Wigan are not yet safe but say Wenger guided yous to 3rd like your Champions League spot or 3rd place is guranteed?

And I think the signs show that when Wigan stay up, they have laid the foundations for a good team next season, the thing that determines a relegation battle is the amount of money Martinez will have to spend, which like JJ said compared to the teams in and around them is nothing

Looks at table sees all three promoted teams above Wigan...

QPR have spent how much?

Swansea is a club HE laid the foundations for as he explained in the article

and Norwich have a manager who is arguably equal or better than him

Why would you say that when the other two have spent less...

No doubt he made the club more professonal and he won them promotion, but how much of that Swansea side he left there are in the Prem now?! I doubt its like Chelsea, where you go fack how many managers later and this is still Mourinho's team.

[The King]

Wigan’s late ‘great escape’ is becoming such a regular feature of each Premier League season, that it’s difficult to work out how much Roberto Martinez’s change in formation has been a key factor in their recent run.

But the facts speak for themselves – Wigan played a back four for the first 24 games of the season and won three times – then since the switch to a back three, they’ve won six in 12. It is a remarkable turnaround for a side who sat bottom just six weeks ago, and has further boosted the reputation of Martinez.

The 3-4-3 system he has favoured in recent weeks is a highly adaptable formation that can become 5-4-1 easily in the defensive phase of play, and Martinez has drilled his players excellently so they understand the nature of the system with and without the ball. Equally impressively, Wigan have perfected the shape in two different ways – both playing proactively, taking the game to the opposition (as they did in the 4-0 home win against Newcastle last weekend) or by playing a complete counter-attacking game (as they did when winning 2-1 at the Emirates last month).

Against Newcastle they had 57% possession, against Arsenal it was 36%. They are two completely different gameplans, and it’s fair to say that one was achieved with a 3-4-3, the other with 5-4-1 – though it’s the same base system, the positioning of the wing-backs and the wingers with and without the ball clearly changes the ‘band’ of the system they are part of.

The most interesting part of Wigan’s formation is the defence – primarily because it remains very rare to see a side playing a back three in the Premier League. Antolin Alcaraz and Gary Caldwell, who were often the centre-back pairing when Wigan played a back four, are joined by Maynor Figueroa, who is more of a left-back than a centre-back. This is particularly obvious when Wigan are passing the ball out from the back, as Figueroa is the one to prompt the attacks and play the first pass into midfield. Against Newcastle, for example, Alcaraz had 68 touches of the ball and Caldwell 38, but Figueroa had 90 – he’s the man Ali Al-Habsi generally looks to when playing short passes.

Alcaraz plays to the right and Figueroa to the left, and those two are given license to move forward from the back three and track a striker moving deep – or an attacking midfielder in space between the lines. In turn, the other two shuffle across and cover the space. This means that Caldwell’s role is different to the other two – he’s always moving laterally as the spare man, while Alcaraz and Figueroa move vertically towards play.

That’s summed up in their defensive statistics. Figueroa makes 2.9 tackles per game, Alcaraz 2.4, but Caldwell just 0.6. Similarly, Figueroa intercepts 2.5 times per game, Alcaraz 2.6, and Caldwell only 1.4.

But then Caldwell is always on hand to do the penalty box defending – he clears the ball 5.9 times per game (compared to 4.4 and 5), makes 1.1 blocks (0.5, 0.5) and wins 1.4 aerial duels (1.1, 1.1). You can’t have three centre-backs trying to do the same thing, and therefore the separation of responsibilities has worked nicely.

Further forward, the signing of Jean Beausejour has been crucial to Wigan’s performance – he provides natural thrust from left wing-back, having made his name in a similar role Marcelo Bielsa’s 3-3-1-3 with Chile. He crosses the ball 2.5 times per game, which is significantly better than any other Wigan player (David Jones is next best, on 1), illustrating how much they needed Beausejour to play this system. On the other flank, Emerson Boyce is more conservative, though also understands his position well and is often the man in space to provide an out-ball for the back three.

In the centre of midfield, it’s easy to get mixed up between James McCarthy and James McArthur, the duo who also played alongside each other for Hamilton Academical – but they do have slightly different roles. McCarthy sits deeper and does more defensive work than McArthur (2.5-1.8 tackles, 1.8-0.9 interceptions). McArthur moves forward to join the front four, and helps with the pressing.

On the flanks, the star is Victor Moses, who is the second-most prolific dribbler in the Premier League behind Blackburn’s Junior Hoilett. More importantly, Moses has found his shooting boots – scoring six times since December, having only managed two goals in the previous two years. But though Moses is the man bigger clubs might be looking at, Shaun Maloney has been superb in recent weeks. Martinez switches the wide players from game to game, so full-backs don’t know what to expect.

Up front, Franco Di Santo was a figure of fun earlier in the season, but has gone about his work with commitment and determination. He is good at holding up the ball and understands the need to break quickly when Wigan are playing on the counter-attack. He’s also started to chip in with some goals himself, though is still only on six for the season. He’s not the most talented striker in the league, but is the right style for a side that sometimes hoard the ball, and sometimes counter-attack – he can spearhead the team effectively either way.

With everything going so well, it’s tempting to ask why Martinez didn’t use this system before – a harsh question, perhaps, but when Wigan lost eight consecutive games earlier in the season, they could have done with some variation in their play.

It’s been crucial that Martinez has the right players for the system, and equally crucial that they’ve been drilled well in training. But the key factor in Wigan’s recent run of success has simply been that Martinez has given opponents a different threat, something to make opposition coaches think. Often, the opposition have been forced to change their own system midway through the game to adapt – in itself, that shows the difficulty of playing against a 3-4-3 in a league obsessed with back fours. In an uninspiring relegation scrap, Wigan play the most attractive football and offer the most variety in their play – and their probable survival is good for the league as a whole.

[Captain Planet]

Used to love that system with a passion even before I properly understood tactics can't remember which italian or spanish team played it in the 90's though

Hopefully next season it pays dividends further up the table

[Nidge Weasle]

f*ck wigan and f*ck him.

sick of every man and his dog wanking over them cause they throw a few results together at the end of every season.

shite club with worse fans, shouldnt even be in the league.

[anelka]

Wigan are a disgrace, they only try hard for the last 15 games

They are fitter & fresher than most of the other teams coz they used minimal effort from aug - Feb

On their day they are a very stylish side, even before all this 3-4-3, a shame they only turn up for 3months, fully cheating themselves

[FANTA]

f*ck wigan and f*ck him.

sick of every man and his dog wanking over them cause they throw a few results together at the end of every season.

shite club with worse fans, shouldnt even be in the league.

[Mame Biram Diouf]

"That's all credit to him to get that through to the players and for us to carry that out.

"We've shown great belief in our system and our style of play and it has reaped rewards.

"This has to be a platform for the football club to progress and move on and be higher up the table next year and really start achieving something."

The goal that guaranteed Wigan's survival came with just three minutes to go at Blackburn from the head of Antolin Alcaraz.

And the Paraguayan defender feels the team's improved form is due to hard work and good luck.

Alcaraz said: "I think we deserve this because we've been working hard in the last five or six games.

"I think before it was a little bit different. We had bad luck and in the end we've had everything - good luck and performances from the team.

"What we've also had is everyone available for the team in the last month - making more competition.

"This is a result for working hard and believing."

[Mame Biram Diouf]

12th place with 6 wins

33 goals scored, 37 conceded

28 million on Lukaku

They look a different team in Europe though

Was always going to be hard for their key players to repeat their high performances from last year (baines and coleman)

Need to replace Howard too, and imo he messed up not getting someone with a similar impact as Delafoue last season off the bench

Naismith has been poor since securing his new contract too

But they have looked more like Wigan this season in the League

Second season syndrome and European duties or other teams just caught onto his style and he's out of his depth?

[The Infamous]

someone compared naismith with antonie sibierski

i lol'd

[Michel Kane]

Martinez is a weirdo to me.

 

Still trying to assess how good he is.

[TF S4DK]

Think he's a good year, bad year manager tbh.

[darkman]

This time last year you all had the kleenex out about him.

 

 

How the f*ck can you compare 6 months of a mangerial reign to 10 years? Martinez needs to manage the club for few years before you can make comparisons with Moyes

 

[Drift]

any manager that does as much pundit work on tv as much as him is not serious.