Who do you rate the highest?

[Thizz]

Bro I really don't get what your getting at I've not said anything about Gerrard in this thread?

 

I never said anything about since Zidane either.

[Heero Yuy]

[Davicious X]

It was this...

 

I don't see how you can void someones opinion it's all subjective ain't it.

Everyone has different view and opinions on football.

 

... Sure you can't void someones opinion, but sometimes the opinion is just so absurd. What Porch said falls into that category.

[O Fenomeno]

Mourinho's teams have one way of playing which means he isn't adaptable

He was brought in to overhaul Pep's Barca and has failed miserably

Mourinho was also brought in to deliver Number 10 and still has the chance to do so

The thing is

Real struggle to open teams up playing football it has to be with the counter attack or a set piece which are Jose's biggest weapons

When that doesn't work then you see how inept Real look under Mourinho

So Alonso/Garcia/Mascherano/Hamann never played a big part

Gerrard would of carried Liverpool to a least one league Championship

Think about it

/

As for Zidane

French National team

Euro 2000 & Germany 2006

While Premiership greats ie Henry and Vieira stood still

Messi scored five goals against Leverkusen isn't called carrying the team

Barca were stuck against Chelsea last season

Messi went missing

[O Fenomeno]

This argument is played out its always the same people coming with their purist football views or whatever.

Go watch these mythical players who dominate and carry teams more than Gerrard. Acting like his influence and big match goals never happened. In the end of the day while your rebore pundit expert selves chat your footballing high ground Gerrard will be among his peers be known as one of the most influential players of his generation

/theend

Zidane is a myth yeah?

[Thizz]

 

[O Fenomeno]

I haven't seen you in here since I schooled you about Mourinho

It's funny you should bring this up because this is exactly like what you did before. You said Mourinho isn't adaptable. To me that is laughable and I explained why then. You can't make blanket statements like that to seem like some higher power of footballing knowledge by going against the status quoth.

Explain again why it's laughable

[Davicious X]

Mourinho's teams have one way of playing which means he isn't adaptable

He was brought in to overhaul Pep's Barca and has failed miserably

Mourinho was also brought in to deliver Number 10 and still has the chance to do so

The thing is

Real struggle to open teams up playing football it has to be with the counter attack or a set piece which are Jose's biggest weapons

When that doesn't work then you see how inept Real look under Mourinho

So Alonso/Garcia/Mascherano/Hamann never played a big part

Gerrard would of carried Liverpool to a least one league Championship

Think about it

/

As for Zidane

French National team

Euro 2000 & Germany 2006

While Premiership greats ie Henry and Vieira stood still

Messi scored five goals against Leverkusen isn't called carrying the team

Barca were stuck against Chelsea last season

Messi went missing

 

Lol mans naming players Gerrard played with to show he hasn't carried a team, but refuses to name players Zidane played with (Most of which are better than the players Gerrard played with) to justify the argument of Zidane carrying his teams.

 

This guy >>>>>>>>>

[O Fenomeno]

Man really didn't see or even refused to see Henry and Vieira

[Davicious X]

I refused your argument and will continue to 

[O Fenomeno]

Zidane

96 had an average tournament

98 had an average tournament despite scoring two goals in the final

Now this is where it gets interesting

00 Zidane is the best player@the Euros followed by Totti/Figo

02 is injured for the 1st group games but France still have Premiership greats in their side so surely they should make it out of the groups

No

They struggle against Senegal and Uruguay

Henry chokes again for France

France are so desperate so they play a 50% fit Zidane against Denmark and lose 2-0 which leads to them to crash out at the group stages

04 Zidane does nada apart from them two goals against England (See I could of easily said he carried France due to his goals and award of MOTM but I won't because it isn't true)

The Great Steven Gerrard actually won France that game

He scores against Swiss an gets man marked in the quarters against The Greeks

Bye Bye Santini

Hello Domenech

06- Zidane is truly awful against in the group stages

Zidane steps up against Spain

Is currently the last guy to score against La Roja in knock out tournament football

I could easily say he dominated Spain but he never

But

However Zidane against Brazil

Someone please tell me have they seen a better individual performance from a player against strong opposition in a big game

Zidane carries on against Portugal but nothing like the game against Brazil

Plus I think Zidane won the golden ball which means nada now after Forlan won it in 2010

[Bobby Reds]

Gerrard

[O Fenomeno]

I refused your argument and will continue to

Taken the L

Good man

[Davicious X]

What L your argument is blind because of what seems to be stipulated as carried a team. 

 

Zidane rightly did dominate the matches you mention, theres no way I'd take that away from you, but Gerrard has carried a team (albeit at club level only).

 

Its just a shame you missed those games. 

[Flojo]

 

lool

 

 

Basically I agree with Porchy on some of what he says about Gerrard, to say he carried Liverpool is a bit of an insult especially during the Rafa period when the system was almost perfectly tuned to get the best out of him...I don't want to talk to much about it because it's still quite a tender spot for me but Masch, Alonso and Gerrard were a formidable trio who complimented each other perfectly. He's a clutch player though who's done some outrageous things in ridiculous circumstances, I reckon you'd be hard pushed to find a player with a highlight reel that includes as many tense situations as his does. It was funny that Gerrard carried Liverpool until Torres came and then the pundits would say Gerrard and Torres but then when Alonso left it was Alonso who was the key player.

 

I agree that the introduction of Hamman was the most important moment in the CL final as prior to that Kaka was running amok and taking all kiiiiinds of liberties, Stevie was very important in that game as well though. I also thought that Pennant was probably our best player in the CL final in 07.

 

I've labelled Stevie as a Roy of the Rovers baller at times myself but it only happens when he looks around and sees players he doesn't really rate, when he's in a team with players he rates he's more than happy to play his role in the team. He never does that Roy of the Rovers shit for England - people forget he basically neutralised his natural game in WC06 when he was at the peak of his powers to allow Lampard to play the more offensive role ( yet he was still England's top scorer at the tournament ).

 

For me he's a top player and the best of the three mentioned, I can't really be arsed going back and forth with Porchy because I'm pretty sure if we made a topic 'French Mustard vs English Mustard- which is better?' He'd be coming out with all kinds of shit to discredit English mustard.

[O Fenomeno]

Name those big games he carried Liverpool in

Like I said earlier it's one of football's biggest myths

[O Fenomeno]

If I was to say Scholes was more technical and better than any French player (bar Zidane)

[Kompressor]

Gerrard quite clearly wins this one,

To say he's never dominated or carried his team through a game is an over exaggeration bordering on stupid.

/

On the merit of some of his performances Gerrard has obviously carried Liverpool on occasions but I think Porchy has ended up pulling i ln the other direction due to the exaggerated hyping of a lot of his performances. I.E pundits will talk about his performance in the CL Final and speak like nobody else had excellent games during the comeback.

/

On the same subject (and another thing mentioned in here)

Roy Keane's performance against Juventus in 99 was excellent but I think history adds extra gloss on these things, there was a number of

excellent performers that night. So much in fact that Fergie called the first half performance the best performance during his time at United 13 years into his reign that no mean feat.

However the main memories of the night fed to us by pundits is to talk about how Keane carried United through in an amazing comeback when we were down and out despite being ruled out of any potential final. This is helped by a well times goal. If Roy Keane had an identical game but it was Ronny Johnsen who scored the first goal Keane's performabce wouldnt have been looked at as anything legendary. The narrative is a good one and has more drama to it. To add that Cole, The Danish bloke, Irwin and pretty much everyone else with the exception of maybe Blomqvist (who had a very good game) had excellent games after the two early goals would take away from the dramatic and movie worthy narrative so their performances are played down and Keane's is played up.

Don't quote me but I have a feeling that it was actually Andy Cole who got man of the match in that game.

[Davicious X]

Name those big games he carried Liverpool in

Like I said earlier it's one of football's biggest myths

 

 

Performances against Marsaille, Olympiakos, West Ham and Man U come to mind right now

[O Fenomeno]

The guy is a CM

His biggest asset is what? Goalscoring

Should of been a striker

Now look around in world football at other CM's not one of them has that as their biggest asset

Xavi

Iniesta

Schweni

Marchiso

Vidal

[Davicious X]

The guy is a CM

His biggest asset is what? Goalscoring

Should of been a striker

Now look around in world football at other CM's not one of them has that as their biggest asset

Xavi

Iniesta

Schweni

Marchiso

Vidal

 

 

"Gerrard's biggest asset is his goal scoring."

 

Have you really found a liverpool fan that said that?

[O Fenomeno]

Lampard

[O Fenomeno]

Lampard has been found wanting in many big games

I am telling you his goals masks the actual performances

The guy is limited

I even said he looked good in a two man midfield prior to the final which he was over ran like predicted

As for Lampard being better than them guys mentioned

Don't be silly

Better at them at what?

Goalscoring

I fail to find other ways Lampard could be better than Schweni apart from shooting and goal getting