North Korea

[Sole]

Where does Australia sit on all this?

[Elementalism]

Any Turkey.

 

Just another missile defence location, US sent 200 marines there last year.

[Kurtis]

Not as easy as just getting rid of the border

 

The people identify themselves as two different nations

 

N.Korea's people not due to their own fault have been raised and educated via propaganda information, videos and news stories etc

 

America showing up and saying we just killed your leader and are here to liberate you and open up your trade restrictions and throw democracy on you, is not going to go down a treat

 

Just because Kim senior died does not mean he doesnt have loads of friends and allies in their government/powerful figures, who would kill their own people before they up rise and and become more of a liberal society and re-merge with South Korea to make a united state again 

 

c/s

 

something crossed my mind a few weeks ago but couldnt be arsed to pose the question  on here

 

im not TOOOO familiar with the politcal situation decades ago, but tried look into it

 

basically was Korean Empire, Then Empire of Japan took over, then after WWII Soviet Union took the North and US south

 

then around that time Kim whatever the first one just over and ran tings

 

but im saying, in like the 70's and 80's, prob 90's, there must have been people who were there before he took power. so did these people just forget everything they knew before and just accept what he said or what?

[Niall Ferguson]

Lots of baseless assertions in here which is quite annoying but anyway imma just throw this in here

http://youtu.be/isuHrj6Ykuw

[Rsonist]

[Beavis]

 

China 'shifts position' on North Korea There are clear signs that China is losing patience with North Korea, America's former top diplomat in Asia has said.

 

 

 

For several decades, China has been North Korea's closest ally, largest trade partner and primary source of aid.

However, Kurt Campbell, the former head of the State department in Asia, said there are signs that a relationship once described by Chairman Mao to be "as close as lips and teeth" is wearing thin.

"There is a subtle shift in Chinese foreign policy. Over the short to medium term, that has the potential to affect the calculus in north east Asia," Mr Campbell said at a forum at John Hopkins university.

"You have seen it at the United Nations (Security Council). We have seen it in our private discussions and you see it in statements in Beijing," he added.

Related Articles

 

Mr Campbell, who left the State department in February to found his own consultancy firm, was one of the architects of the US diplomatic and military "pivot" towards Asia.

He added that North Korean officials have noticed the change of mood in Beijing.

"I do not think that subtle shift can be lost on Pyongyang," he said. "They need a close relationship with China for every conceivable reason. It's not in their strategic interest to alienate every country that surrounds them.

"The most important new ingredient has been a recognition in China that their previous approach to North Korea is not bearing fruit."

Earlier, Mr Campbell told the Wall Street Journal that China "cannot be happy" and that he expected a tougher line to emerge from Beijing.

Nevertheless, he acknowledged that Beijing has never been willing to debate North Korea's future with the United States and South Korea, both of whom it holds in some suspicion.

 

Currently, Beijing appears to prefer the devil it knows, in the shape of the unpredictable Kim family regime, to the uncertainties, and perhaps American influence, that a reunification on the Korean peninsula could bring.

However, Daniel Pinkston, a North Korea expert at the International Crisis Group, said Beijing was "fed up" at the distractions being created by Pyongyang while it tries to focus its energies on other problems. "They need to address issues in the South China Sea, they have a corruption campaign going on at home, North Korea is giving them a headache," said Mr Pinkston.

Certainly North Korea no longer merits much respect among ordinary Chinese, who have taken to insulting Kim Jong-un as "Fatty Kim" or "Fatty the Third", in reference to his father and grandfather, on the Chinese internet.

But more reasoned debate over North Korea has been reined in by the Chinese authorities. Deng Yuwen, the deputy editor of the Central Party School's Study Times journal was suspended last week from his position after penning an anti-North Korea editorial for the Financial Times.

Mr Deng argued that China's relationship with North Korea had become a liability. "Why should China maintain relations with a regime and a country that will face failure sooner or later?" he asked. "Once North Korea has nuclear weapons, it cannot be ruled out that the capricious Kim regime will engage in nuclear blackmail against China," he added.

Meanwhile, the Kaesong Industrial Complex, a key bellwether of relations between the North and the South, was closed on Friday for a national holiday.

The North has blocked South Korean workers from entering the site, which lies six miles inside its border, for two days, although staff are permitted to leave the site.

The South Korean Unification minister, Ryoo Kihl-jae, said the South was willing to evacuate the Kaesong if it was felt that its citizens were in danger. At present, however, he said the situation at Kaesong "is not very dangerous" and the government was "not considering" a shutdown.

South Korea has also dispatched warships, in addition to the two US destroyers in the area, to monitor the North for a missile launch. Yonhap, the South Korean news agency, reported that two more missiles had been transported by North Korea to its east coast using its network of underground tunnels.

[Da Luv Doc]

^ this guy makes a lot of assertions.

 

What are they based on?? A DOS game.

 

OK then.

 

Erm, yeah, and a Geography degree from a Russell Group uni?  I know what I'm on about. I know more than most about this situation, I have had a keen interest in global politics from young.

 

/

 

Ice I see you but I don't agree. Turkey is being kept in check, they can do nothing more than look to the West and reminisce about the days of the Ottomans. Erdogan is no Ataturk.

 

The old Russia was politics, the new Russia is business. Russia will sell RPGs and mortars to Hezbollah by the trailerload, and still shake hands with Bibi. It's all business. The circles they move in might be similar, but Israel knows where most Russians stand - and it isn't with them. Iran and Syria are incredibly blessed with resources, Russia is in public a friendly investor in legitimate industrial sectors. Differently, they are investing in proxy armies and creating problems for Israel.

 

Turkey is trying to assume a role as a strong player in the region, they have some F35s now and they think they're levelling . Really, they're just NATO pawns. Israel is the real regional kingpin.

 

 

No they don't. Now I think you are chatting rubbish by throwing lies into your argument.

[Elementalism]

 

^ this guy makes a lot of assertions.

 

What are they based on?? A DOS game.

 

OK then.

 

Erm, yeah, and a Geography degree from a Russell Group uni?  I know what I'm on about. I know more than most about this situation, I have had a keen interest in global politics from young.

 

/

 

Ice I see you but I don't agree. Turkey is being kept in check, they can do nothing more than look to the West and reminisce about the days of the Ottomans. Erdogan is no Ataturk.

 

The old Russia was politics, the new Russia is business. Russia will sell RPGs and mortars to Hezbollah by the trailerload, and still shake hands with Bibi. It's all business. The circles they move in might be similar, but Israel knows where most Russians stand - and it isn't with them. Iran and Syria are incredibly blessed with resources, Russia is in public a friendly investor in legitimate industrial sectors. Differently, they are investing in proxy armies and creating problems for Israel.

 

Turkey is trying to assume a role as a strong player in the region, they have some F35s now and they think they're levelling . Really, they're just NATO pawns. Israel is the real regional kingpin.

 

 

No they don't. Now I think you are chatting rubbish by throwing lies into your argument.

 

....

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-delays-f-35-order-due-to-lacking-in-project.aspx?pageID=238&nid=38904

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement

 

The fact that Turkey is even on that list proves my overall point. They have 100 on order, same difference.

 

Feel free to fact-check me, I come correct 99.9% of the time.

[Niall Ferguson]

You come correct because you're effectively rehashing arguments from newspapers and TV news. There's nothing original in what you said.

 

In fact, comments like "The old Russia is politics, the new Russia is business" are ridiculously funny.

[Sole]

Even I know turkey don't have no f35's ffs

Wanting and having son smh.

[Da Luv Doc]

 

 

^ this guy makes a lot of assertions.

 

What are they based on?? A DOS game.

 

OK then.

 

Erm, yeah, and a Geography degree from a Russell Group uni?  I know what I'm on about. I know more than most about this situation, I have had a keen interest in global politics from young.

 

/

 

Ice I see you but I don't agree. Turkey is being kept in check, they can do nothing more than look to the West and reminisce about the days of the Ottomans. Erdogan is no Ataturk.

 

The old Russia was politics, the new Russia is business. Russia will sell RPGs and mortars to Hezbollah by the trailerload, and still shake hands with Bibi. It's all business. The circles they move in might be similar, but Israel knows where most Russians stand - and it isn't with them. Iran and Syria are incredibly blessed with resources, Russia is in public a friendly investor in legitimate industrial sectors. Differently, they are investing in proxy armies and creating problems for Israel.

 

Turkey is trying to assume a role as a strong player in the region, they have some F35s now and they think they're levelling . Really, they're just NATO pawns. Israel is the real regional kingpin.

 

 

No they don't. Now I think you are chatting rubbish by throwing lies into your argument.

 

....

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-delays-f-35-order-due-to-lacking-in-project.aspx?pageID=238&nid=38904

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement

 

The fact that Turkey is even on that list proves my overall point. They have 100 on order, same difference.

 

Feel free to fact-check me, I come correct 99.9% of the time.

 

 

YOU ARE CONVERSING WITH THE OFFICIAL "THAT AEROPLANE GUY" OF THE FORUM MATE. I KNOW MORE ABOUT AEROPLANES THAT ANYONE ON HERE. YOU PUT UP INFORMATION THAT CONFIRMS WHAT I HAVE SAID. THIS IS NOT 5 YEARS AWAY, THIS IS NOW RUDE GIRL. TURKEY "DO NOT" HAVE ACTIVE F-35 JSF!!!!

 

PLEASE, I BEG YOU HUMBLE YOURSELF WHEN TALKING ABOUT AEROPLANES, PHYSICS, ENGINEERING OR ANYTHING THAT ARE CLOSELY RELATED AS YOUR ARGUMENTS WILL GET DEADED!

 

Man really tried to say that have something that they don't. In reality, Turkey have F-16s and LOTS of aging F-4 Phantoms.

[Da Luv Doc]

Allow this P C plod dropping lies into arguments man, that is not cool and you should just remove yourself from MY topic.

[ruz]

[Niall Ferguson]

Posd JustinCredible lol

 

Creasing at his post in big red letters.

[Niall Ferguson]

Allow this P C plod dropping lies into arguments man, that is not cool and you should just remove yourself from MY topic.

Is he a fed lol?

[Sole]

/

He's a fed but his dad also runs the biggest cartel in Jamaica, he's a graduate in geography but still knows all the real dans in Bristol so don't mess with him bro.

He also knows his aeroplanes.

[Flojo]

Justin found a topic that isn't about wrestling or cream pies he knows a lot about and went nuts.

[The Infamous]

Justin found a topic that isn't about wrestling or cream pies he knows a lot about and went nuts.

+ man drew for the turquoise font 

[Sole]

Lol him and that turquoise

[Elementalism]

Lol him and that turquoise

 

 

 

 

 

^ this guy makes a lot of assertions.

 

What are they based on?? A DOS game.

 

OK then.

 

Erm, yeah, and a Geography degree from a Russell Group uni?  I know what I'm on about. I know more than most about this situation, I have had a keen interest in global politics from young.

 

/

 

Ice I see you but I don't agree. Turkey is being kept in check, they can do nothing more than look to the West and reminisce about the days of the Ottomans. Erdogan is no Ataturk.

 

The old Russia was politics, the new Russia is business. Russia will sell RPGs and mortars to Hezbollah by the trailerload, and still shake hands with Bibi. It's all business. The circles they move in might be similar, but Israel knows where most Russians stand - and it isn't with them. Iran and Syria are incredibly blessed with resources, Russia is in public a friendly investor in legitimate industrial sectors. Differently, they are investing in proxy armies and creating problems for Israel.

 

Turkey is trying to assume a role as a strong player in the region, they have some F35s now and they think they're levelling . Really, they're just NATO pawns. Israel is the real regional kingpin.

 

 

No they don't. Now I think you are chatting rubbish by throwing lies into your argument.

 

....

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-delays-f-35-order-due-to-lacking-in-project.aspx?pageID=238&nid=38904

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement

 

The fact that Turkey is even on that list proves my overall point. They have 100 on order, same difference.

 

Feel free to fact-check me, I come correct 99.9% of the time.

 

 

YOU ARE CONVERSING WITH THE OFFICIAL "THAT AEROPLANE GUY" OF THE FORUM MATE. I KNOW MORE ABOUT AEROPLANES THAT ANYONE ON HERE. YOU PUT UP INFORMATION THAT CONFIRMS WHAT I HAVE SAID. THIS IS NOT 5 YEARS AWAY, THIS IS NOW RUDE GIRL. TURKEY "DO NOT" HAVE ACTIVE F-35 JSF!!!!

 

PLEASE, I BEG YOU HUMBLE YOURSELF WHEN TALKING ABOUT AEROPLANES, PHYSICS, ENGINEERING OR ANYTHING THAT ARE CLOSELY RELATED AS YOUR ARGUMENTS WILL GET DEADED!

 

Man really tried to say that have something that they don't. In reality, Turkey have F-16s and LOTS of aging F-4 Phantoms.

 

I know about their Phantoms and I know about their F16s....

 

I said they had F35s to illustrate the broader point in a discussion I was having with Ice. He made the point that Turkey and Israel are enemies, to which I responded and said they were not. The closest thing to enemies they have been recently was over the Gaza flotilla issue, and that itself put their F35s on hold.

Turkey are consider 'level 3 industrial partners' meaning they actually build a chunk of the planes in Turkey, using approved contractors.

 

 

Turkish companies are building small parts of the plane with a workshare split between a handful of partners. The fact they could win those contracts proves my point, type in red and put your text size to 48 all you want, but your willy and your intellect will always be the same size.

 

Turkey's F-35 Decision Driven by Technology Transfer Concerns 

By Francesco F. Milan | 23 Feb 2012 

 

 

On Jan. 5, Turkeys Defense Industry Executive Committee, chaired by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, authorized the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries to open negotiations with Lockheed Martin for the purchase of two F-35 multi-role combat fighters by 2015. Though Turkey's defense minister today clarified that Turkey still intends to follow through with its intention to acquire 100 F-35s, the small initial purchase represents yet another setback for the troubled program.* It was followed by Britains declaration in February that it will postpone making any formal commitment to the F-35 until 2015. Australia, too, is currently reconsidering plans to buy 12 F-35s, and the F-35s structural problems, which emerged during recent flight tests, led the U.S. Department of Defense to issue a technical report in December 2011 that recommended slowing down U.S. acquisitions as well. 

 

But Ankaras decision to move slowly on its F-35 purchase is not just driven by the projects technical problems.* It also has to do with the United States uneasiness in sharing technology with Turkey, a problem dating back to the 1980s, when Turkey purchased its first F-16s. Turkeys main interest is in acquiring software source codes for weapon systems, which the U.S. Congress has so far refused to share. In particular, Turkey wants control over the aircrafts identification friend or foe (IFF) system in order to offer more flexibility with regard to how its fleet identifies foreign air force jets. The default setting of the original U.S. software for Turkeys F-16 fleet, for instance, identified Israeli air force jets as exclusively friendly. To overcome the problem, ASELSAN, one of Turkeys leading defense companies, developed a new IFF system, which was finalized in September 2011 and is now operational on Turkeys F-16 fleet. The new system allows Turkish fighters to bypass the original software restrictions, allowing Turkish pilots to determine whether to recognize Israeli fighters as either friendly or hostile. 

 

In other words, the F-35 decision and the broader technology-sharing issue must be seen in the context of Turkeys military credibility vis-à-vis Israel and the rest of the Middle East. Since the Gaza flotilla incident in 2010, the diplomatic distance between Israel and Turkey has grown exponentially, and relations have not shown any sign of improving. In December 2011, the Israeli government vetoed a deal that Israeli defense firm Elbit Systems signed with Turkey for the provision of reconnaissance and radar systems. That decision came just a few months after Erdogan had declared that he wanted all military and defense ties with Israel suspended. Tensions have grown even more since January, when Israel signed an agreement on defense cooperation with Cyprus -- much to Turkeys displeasure, given ongoing friction over the exploitation of offshore gas reserves in disputed territorial waters. 

 

Turkey now seems determined to contest Israeli participation in any of Ankaras formal alliance and diplomatic networks, as demonstrated last week when it opposed NATOs proposal to involve an Israeli warship in patrol duties on the Mediterranean Sea. Given both sides hardening positions, the U.S. Congress decision to keep the F-35s source codes out of Turkeys hands responds to a clear logic, not only of safeguarding U.S. military technology, but also of avoiding further escalation of tensions between two key U.S. allies in the Middle East. 

 

But the U.S. is not Turkeys only option for multi-role combat fighters. Over the past decade, Turkey has been in contact with several defense firms to determine which multi-role aircraft will be acquired for the modernization of the Turkish air force. The upgrades are part of a 20-year, $160 billion military modernization program that Turkey announced in 1998. Turkeys current fighting and bombing capabilities consist of 213 Lockheed Martin F-16s and 127 McDonnell Douglas F-4s. The jet fighters are a critical asset for Turkeys armed forces, as both F-4s and F-16s are routinely employed in sorties over northern Iraq to target the safe havens of terrorist group Partiya Karkeren Kurdistan (PKK). 

 

The main alternative to the F-35 is the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium of three European companies -- Italys Alenia Aeronautica, the U.K.s BAE Systems and the multinational EADS. Other competing projects are currently at different stages of development, including the Russian-made Sukhoi T-50, which should be in service by 2016. 

 

The F-35s limited coercive utility against Israel seems to have prompted Turkey to look elsewhere, and members of the Eurofighter consortium have been quick in trying to come up with an alternative offer. In early February, the Italian ambassador to Turkey presented a proposal for the design of a Turkish fighter based on Eurofighter technology, which, according to the ambassador, would be fully shared with Turkey. Details of the proposal were not made public, but the upcoming visit of Italys defense minister to Turkey, due in late February, should clarify the outlines of any potential deal. 

 

The Typhoon could be a good match, given the Eurofighter consortiums eagerness to find new potential buyers and Turkeys desire for a viable alternative to the F-35, if only to use as leverage in any subsequent contract negotiations.* Whichever fighter Turkey ultimately opts for, the decision will in all likelihood be driven by the growing importance that Ankara is placing on safeguarding its military credibility as an increasingly pivotal country in the Middle East.* Clearly technology transfers, which have become a priority for emerging powers such as Brazil and India, figure prominently in Turkeys plans in this regard as well. 

 

*Editor's note: The original version of this article incorrectly stated that Turkey had reduced the number of F-35s it planned to purchase. Although Turkey has authorized the opening of contract negotiations for just two F-35s, it still intends to purchase 100 in total, according to a clarification issued by the Turkish defense minister that appeared after this story was published. 

 

Francesco F. Milan is a doctoral candidate and teaching assistant at the Department of War Studies, King's College London. 

 

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/161034-turkeys-f-35-decision-driven-technology-transfer-concerns.html#ixzz2Ph6z2iot

 

...........

 

 

Please point to another country in the region that has F35 technology in that region...Oh, wait Israel? Didn't I say that Israel were the hegemonic power in that region and that Turkey were vying for it? Didn't I say that Turkey has been bootlicking for time?

You might be an engineering/physics/plane geek, but you got a bit excited there bro. Dodge me with the semantics, I don't want to dance with you bro.

[Sole]

Fam u said they HAVE them

Just take the L and report back to base ffs

[Elementalism]

You come correct because you're effectively rehashing arguments from newspapers and TV news. There's nothing original in what you said.

 

In fact, comments like "The old Russia is politics, the new Russia is business" are ridiculously funny.

 

What are you on about you flid, what does originality have to do with anything? We live in the fucking information age, did you expect me to be the primary source? I'm not your oracle, fuckboy.

 

Old Russia was politics, the New Russia is business. It's true, funny if you're an oligarch in 2013 too - I'd laugh to the bank and then shit on your girl's chest.

 

Russia's young capitalists are shaking up the ranks of Europe's billionaires and injecting some youth into the elite club. Five years ago, the average age of Europe's billionaires was 62. Today, the age is 58, largely due to the 87 Russian billionaires whose average age is just 46. Without the Russians, the average age jumps back up to 60.

 

Among Europe's under-40 billionaire crowd, Russian dominance is even more remarkable. Indeed, 13 of the region's 14 under-40 hail from the former Soviet Union. They came of age around the time of communism's fall in 1991, or soon after. Quick to embrace capitalism, these billionaires--all self-made--have quickly become rich by pulling Russia's vast resources from the ground or building homes for the country's burgeoning middle class.

 

[Da Luv Doc]

Is my man really trying to come at me with Wikipedia when I am a certified aeroplane geek?

 

I DONE TOLD YOU TO CALM THE FUUCK DOWN RUDE GIRL!!! YOU DROPPED MISS INFORMATION THEN COME WITH THE WIKI INFO, FALL BACK PHAM!!!

 

With regards to the shit about software sharing, the U.S.A doesn't like sharing any such software info, unless it is to Israel where they usually care not.

 

But allow talking wreckless with false info, that is not cool.

[Sole]

Ferk

Officer down!