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Adam & Eve & the Serpent in the Garden of Eden


Fighting Weight

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hold on?

he punished eve by making women suffer child birth?

Sooo he punished 90% of animals who had nothing to so with this too?

was he just going to have two humans?

90% of animals are in pain when giving birth?

 

from what ive seen (not very much) offspring slide out of these animals calm

 

not exactly the same for a woman

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hold on?

he punished eve by making women suffer child birth?

Sooo he punished 90% of animals who had nothing to so with this too?

was he just going to have two humans?

90% of animals are in pain when giving birth?

 

from what ive seen (not very much) offspring slide out of these animals calm

 

not exactly the same for a woman

 

 

 

Yes, all amimals are in pain/distress during childbirth, humans moreso though because of our large brains (and thus large skulls)

 

 

The Bible ALSO says it wasn't Satan

It's not true to itself...its filled with contradictions

And the kooharn isn't?

 

 

It isn't really full of internal contradictions of the same kind, just contradictions with reality, though I suppose you can count an idea of god that loves his creations 'more than a mother loves their child' contradictory to the same god sending people to hell for all eternity, boiling their skin off, growing it back and then boiling it off again, forcing them to drink scalding water etc

 

But then that necessary contradiction is inherent in the abrahamic god theme, if you don't have a fear of a brutal and hideous form of eternal torture I suppose there isn't too much incentive to go along with all the stuff that defies reason

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You're some serious hyper-atheist. 

 

Well tbf I did try to steer clear of any of the issues that have come out in the last couple posts and actually just study the Biblical texts in the OP...

 

 

Everyone already knows god is a vengeful, angst ridden teenage girl

 

Apparently not bro

 

 

Why you so angry, FW?

 

Atheists are some of the most disgusting, circular minded, egotistical cunts on the planet. Fuck a Dawkins btw.

 

I come across more evidence for the existence of my creator in my day to day than someone like you will ever come across in your lifetime.

 

What makes you think that because we are 2000 years down the line, we aren't making the same fundamental mistakes that we've always made? You probably believe we are more ingenious than our forebears, right?

:lol:

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By the way i'm a pantheist, not an atheist. Having previously been very religious (actual twice weekly bible study sitdowns in my yard) and meeting so many different people of different religions who I was told, in summary, would rot in hell for their sins it wasn't something I could subscribe to anymore.

 

FW is highlighting some important points however, there are some very human traits that god exhibits even in the very early days of the bible. Its one of the reasons I can't buy into it anymore when you look at the grand scheme, its based on some interesting descriptions of this God character, which on one hand is painted as Omnipotent and Ominiscient and on the other hand, doesn't forgive, judges and has feelings. Personally I like my almighty beings to remain true to their description.

 

I mean factually, the sheer mention of his Omniscience means that he knew what would happen in the Garden of Eden before it happened, in fact this was his will. He created the very body and soul of Adam and Eve and introduced their immature minds to temptation, then punished their offspring eternally for what was essentially, his mistake. Could he have not hidden the tree of Knowledge on, I don't know, the moon? I mean we know its there, we can see it. No he chose to place it right in front of them, blocking their path like its the Sims or something.

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I'm not even mocking, these are questions as a Christian that at some stage in your life you might ask yourself. You've got to be prepared to take criticism of your beliefs and defend them with your life, because that is actually what you're doing if it's what you believe in.

 

I asked my teachers loads of questions like this, not to take the piss but because they were questions that were not ever brought up in our studies by the teachers. You're told to believe and have faith WITHOUT question, which as a being of logic I find troubling. If you can find a truth that satisfies you in the bible or religion in general then fairplay to you and goodluck, I mean that wholeheartedly. I unfortunately could not, and as good as a person as I am there is every chance I will tormented eternally for even questioning this. So think about that

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Why you so angry, FW?

 

Ah the old, 'atheists are just angry at God' line, a classic.

 

Atheists are some of the most disgusting, circular minded, egotistical cunts on the planet. f*ck a Dawkins btw.

 

Not sure I'd consider myself an atheist, but this is a hilarious quote nonetheless. You should probably let go of some of that 'justified anger' you have

 

 

I come across more evidence for the existence of my creator in my day to day than someone like you will ever come across in your lifetime.

 

Would you like to provide any of this for us? This is the thread to do it

 

 

What makes you think that because we are 2000 years down the line, we aren't making the same fundamental mistakes that we've always made? You probably believe we are more ingenious than our forebears, right?

 

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but we have a better degree of knowledge of most aspects of the world and a better collective morality (or at least assumed morality) than the status quo of 2000 years ago, and most of these things come from what I can only see as the only reasonable way to come to ANY conclusion

 

A reasoned, talked out, thought-out, ever-evolving dialogue taking into account all points of view -  not an unchanging dogmatic framework

 

By the way, Human development did not start 2000 years ago, neither did religion

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I'm not the person going through the thread negging Fighting Weight's posts, just to clear that up, if You disagree, I'm sure 1 neg should suffice

/

Elementalism, why does an Atheist have to be a Darwinist?

/

We've gone off topic. We're discussing whether (assuming the Bible is true) God should have punished people who had no knowledge of good and evil for doing wrong, as the concept of wrong doing, consequences, etc, would be alien to them

 

I questioned the snake's punishment, because I believe the snake was a form the devil took (I provided a Biblical reference, albeit a debatable one), and no actual snake did anything wrong. 

/

Mizchif, I think You're meant to question Your faith, and finding the answers can strengthen it.

 

You're not meant to believe without questioning, You're supposed to get answers from God/the Bible.(let's not forget, true Christians believe they speak with God directly and get answers from Him directly)

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moral of the story: do what you're told, live in ignorance and follow orders without questioning whether they're for your own benefit. dissenters will be punished. persons trying to persuade others to dissent from the regime will be punished.

 

my parents lived in a place like that too. except it was called the ussr

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Mind Reader, see my earlier quote for the quote Christians site when claiming that Satan is the Serpent. It is very vague and open to interpretation.

But Your first post - so You're saying God made the earth, then made man in a spiritual realm? I don't get why, or what Bible quote led You to believe the Garden of Eden wasn't on earth

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I've allways believed the garden of eden was heaven (the perfect world) and that when adam took a bite of the apple he was vanished

to earth to be made to suffer with us people, along with the suffering of women during childbirth etc

 

Common knowledge garden of eden was heaven i thought.

I think that's what we touched on earlier in this thread. Your church/sunday school/ RE teacher proposed their opinion, but stated it as fact

 

but now we're older, we don't take anything unless we can see it in the Bible itself, so if the Bible doesn't say that, we have to just take it as one person's opinion

 

the Bible states that this world was perfect up until that point, and the new perfect world will be created when this one is destroyed. (Revelation 21)

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@ Fighting Weight, I got a response from a Christian regarding Your question about the innocent serpents being punished

 

they claim that the snake did not exist until Satan took its form to deceive, so God punished it, as it was a creature introduced by the Devil, and kept snakes without legs and feet as a reminder of that said punishment

 

they also stated that when the creation story describes the making of the animals, that snakes are not mentioned, strengthening their view. 

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