Semi Final 2 - Netherlands v Argentina

[The Infamous]

yeah its down to numbers and accolades because people have short memories in that aspect

you gotta factor the competition,the quality of the team they played for and most importantly the amount of moments the goat has come thru with the clutch moment to inspire his team

like in b ball its undisputed that MJ is the goat but some people say charles barkley,magic or some other don(not the best example)

there is a lot of factors that come into play

regardless its hard to tell UNLESS you have lived through Pele,Diego and now seen Messi to compare.

[Kuffir]

ye level of competition 100 percent

 

quality of team can be used against u (haters)

 

for perspective

 

michael jordan was immensely talented, dominated the nineties, and broke pure scoring records at shooting guard en route to six rings

 

but bill russell was immensely talented, has eleven rings, was part of a celtic dynasty that stayed together for more than a decade, and as a center broke a lot of rebounding records.. in the sixties

 

guess hu ppl call the undisputed goat

[Benicio del Toney]

the overwhelming majority of those achievements u listed r all international duty accolades no?

 

as far as race goes 9 times out of 10 pele is the answer when GOAT is the question and he is fifas player of the century so thats pretty decisive 

 

and if he scores in the final who is going to believe he didnt dominate in years time when you look at his numbers?

 

anyways its all long cruyff the player, coach, manager, god >>

 

 

4-2 majority

 

Fifa give props thank God but still bare man on these blogs, radio etc... don't wanna respect the God.

 

 

Yes if he scores in the final and they win history will probably put a nicer glaze over it.

 

Why Cruyff iyo?

[Kuffir]

incredible at ajax, incredible at barca

 

the master of total football both as a player and a manager (shouts to rinus)

 

took holland to the final and lost, then cudnt attend the next world cup for fear of kidnap

 

supremely gifted, ridiculous swag, jerry west of football if jerry had some medals to go with all that talent

 

di bawse 

[The Infamous]

ye level of competition 100 percent

 

quality of team can be used against u (haters)

 

for perspective

 

michael jordan was immensely talented, dominated the nineties, and broke pure scoring records at shooting guard en route to six rings

 

but bill russell was immensely talented, has eleven rings, was part of a celtic dynasty that stayed together for more than a decade, and as a center broke a lot of rebounding records.. in the sixties

 

guess hu ppl call the undisputed goat

our generation(or people a bit older than us) say MJ I guess and our elders say russell I guess

Doesn't surprise me because when you watch sports ESPECIALLY when you are young(ish) and u see someone just dominating the whole thing. You feel like u gotta push that player down the throat of ur kids/youngers/next generation. 'Oh let me tell u about zidane/ronaldo/messi'. its hard to gauge what the levels is because football changes a lot. sheet football aint even the same as it was in the early millennia and that was a short while ago. the World class guys of that era would/could look like ANY guys right now because the game is faster and ruthless. for example someone like Raul,Kluivert those were top dons mid 90's to early 00's but Im guessing they wouldn't even be levels. A bag of man from this era like RVP,Suarez and Zlatan are better than those lot.

The eras change like the 80's the game was way better defensively than it is now. The 90's had a lot of sick attackers/midfielders. while right now football is a lot faster than it used to be

Unless you have lived through all those eras and seen all the moments that made these guys goats its always gona be I lived through this guys time he's the best etc etc sorta thing

[Benicio del Toney]

I can respect that Philly.

 

George Best imo is the most talented footballer I've seen footage of.

[Kuffir]

@lahi people say jordan is the goat each and every time because of talent, accolades and the fact that the only guy you could say was better (trophy wise) played a good twenty years before him when the league was not as competitive, athletic (not that russel wasn't athletic) or tactical

 

and rightfully so.

 

@tone in regards to pele from the attempted halfway line lob to one of the most audacious dummy attempts + much much more talent wise i could never stunt on him but that i can stunt on his competition takes points away, obviously you can only play whats in front of you but for better/worse its still a valid criticism and tbh my only criticism, respect

[Benicio del Toney]

Basketball ain't my sport but you said Russell played centre, I'm guessing MJ being more offensive has a lot to do with it aswell.

[The Infamous]

early goats

Pele

Beckenbauer

Puskas

Cruijff

modern goats

Diego

Van Basten

Ronaldo

Ronaldinho

Zidane

Messi

gotta separate them but all those guys have a point tbh

[The Infamous]

a lot of factors come into play

for example Van Basten could have been undisputed had he not had injuries to stop him from dominating

Puskas could have been the goat but he was born Hungarian unfortunately

etc etc

[Kuffir]

Basketball ain't my sport but you said Russell played centre, I'm guessing MJ being more offensive has a lot to do with it aswell.

 

immeasurably 

 

especially cause russell was more of a defensive center as opposed to say a center like kareem who is the all time leading nba scorer, ahead of his airness

[Benicio del Toney]

I totally hear the competition argument, in my mind though it's all relative.

 

That's where the 12 year argument comes into it for me, he did it in 1958 and much later in 1970, Beckenbauer himself said nobody else has performed at that level over such a period of time, in football terms that is 2 eras.

 

You know it was a different era because nobody else from 1958 was playing in the 1970 team.

 

To add further perspective Zagallo played in the 1958 team and was manager in 1970.

[Benicio del Toney]

a lot of factors come into play

for example Van Basten could have been undisputed had he not had injuries to stop him from dominating

Puskas could have been the goat but he was born Hungarian unfortunately

etc etc

 

 

Van Basten had a worse WC than Wayne Rooney in 1990, he wasn't gonna be undisputed anything.

 

Hungary in the 50's were 1 of the best teams in World Football, Puskas played in a WC Final.

 

 

Do your research man.

[The Infamous]

Did they win anything old man

[Heero Yuy]

Dog shite