KIDS

[Pro]

Not having kids is not abnormal. Consign one of the above sentiments. It's about realising whether your life is conducive to having kids and whether you have the capability to be a parent. Some people do it anyway. For example I dont think you should have kids if:

You live in a council house

You are broke

You are not married

You are a chav

These are just my views. But the cycle of poverty continues from one generation to the next too often in this country. The desire to do you needs to come first before the desire to procreate. When you are ready you will not need government assistance, a nanny who is more of a parent to your child than you or anything else to raise the child Just you and your spouse. Some realise this and wisely opt out. Fair play to them.

 

what kind off nonsense is this if you ancestors followed these same guidelines you probably wouldn't exist

[underwriter]

I was born out of wedlock

Never been a problem, never once been seriously called a bastard.

Can't agree with what you said at all in regards to thaf

i wonder how that feels

[Yoshie]

 

 

Brem said you have to own a house to have children

Nonsense

no, he said Your house shouldn't be paid for by the government.

I'm sure he's OK with rented accommodation, Brem, can You confirm?

still negged him for saying You should be married to have kids.

Indeed I am fine with PRIVATE renting. Confirmed.

My point around marriage is that kids should be brought into a stable foundation. Not to say unmarried parents don't have a solid base but there is nothing ultimately holding someone back from leaving/walking out.

Like it or not marriage says two things.

1) you have the intention to commit without reservation. (yes there are exceptions).

2) there is a legal stipulation with consequences in the eyes of the law. Having repercussions subconsciously or consciously makes you work harder at your relationship. To make it work.

That ultimately is better for ultimately creating a stable base for children. These are just my views.

Besides like it or not there is still a stigma to children out of wedlock. Do you want your kid in some circles to be known as a bustard. It happens. I've seen it.

 

 

Lol.

Marriage doesn't mean shit pal.

Won't stop anyone from walking.

[YFSD]

I was born out of wedlock

Never been a problem, never once been seriously called a bastard.

Can't agree with what you said at all in regards to thaf

i wonder how that feels

No different from being raised in a family with married parents

[Thizz]

Would love a kid me and him would get so lit.

[Brem]

Not having kids is not abnormal. Consign one of the above sentiments. It's about realising whether your life is conducive to having kids and whether you have the capability to be a parent. Some people do it anyway. For example I dont think you should have kids if:

You live in a council house

You are broke

You are not married

You are a chav

These are just my views. But the cycle of poverty continues from one generation to the next too often in this country. The desire to do you needs to come first before the desire to procreate. When you are ready you will not need government assistance, a nanny who is more of a parent to your child than you or anything else to raise the child Just you and your spouse. Some realise this and wisely opt out. Fair play to them.

what kind off nonsense is this if you ancestors followed these same guidelines you probably wouldn't exist

Look these are just my views. Hence I have caveated with these are just my views. I dont need them consigned.

I spent 10 years in a council house when my dads business failed and he suffered a stroke. We lost our house too. My parents did get divorced because my mum was a nutter and my dad needed supervised care. It was a shit life while I was working full time and holding down my education. But it was unexpected.

If my dad knew this would happen and that was the life I would lead then yes he should have abstained from having kids. This however he didn't know was going I happen.

Your progeny should be given a good life. Security, love, time, patience etc... If any one of these is not something hat can be given or a work in progress then you shouldn't have kids. Period. Not until you have set this up.

Anyone who thinks you can do otherwise or have kids on a whim is a fucking idiot.

[Brem]

Brem said you have to own a house to have children

Nonsense

no, he said Your house shouldn't be paid for by the government.

I'm sure he's OK with rented accommodation, Brem, can You confirm?

still negged him for saying You should be married to have kids.

Indeed I am fine with PRIVATE renting. Confirmed.

My point around marriage is that kids should be brought into a stable foundation. Not to say unmarried parents don't have a solid base but there is nothing ultimately holding someone back from leaving/walking out.

Like it or not marriage says two things.

1) you have the intention to commit without reservation. (yes there are exceptions).

2) there is a legal stipulation with consequences in the eyes of the law. Having repercussions subconsciously or consciously makes you work harder at your relationship. To make it work.

That ultimately is better for ultimately creating a stable base for children. These are just my views.

Besides like it or not there is still a stigma to children out of wedlock. Do you want your kid in some circles to be known as a bustard. It happens. I've seen it.

Lol.

Marriage doesn't mean sh*t pal.

Won't stop anyone from walking.

If you want to walk then you will walk. Yes.

But added to that will lawyers, 50%, longness, keep you in the fray / more likely make you work on things rather than jack it in. I believe so.

Also does marriage mean commitment. Yes I believe so. People bleet on about it being just a piece of paper. It's more than that. It is you creating a family. I'm not saying unmarried people can't be a family, but marriage is vow to that family unit. There it is more conducive to kids in my view.

Further more the bastard kids comment I made is true. In Asian and African background homes. It doesn't matter how nice they are to your face. They chat shit about it and your kid(s) behind your back. Also the middle class's will take the piss. Also why is the kids name different from mummy at parents evening, the kid might wonder. These things happen. It's not baseless chat.

Kids deserve the best possible start. Marriage is a component of that in my view.

[Lens]

 

 

 

2) there is a legal stipulation with consequences in the eyes of the law. Having repercussions subconsciously or consciously makes you work harder at your relationship. To make it work.

 

This is a bad thing

 

It would be better for the child if an unwilling partner left the relationship than stayed in it, feeling binded by the law and working on a relationship they shouldn't,  leading to a child living in a home with 2 people who resent each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Further more the bastard kids comment I made is true. In Asian and African background homes. It doesn't matter how nice they are to your face. They chat sh*t about it and your kid(s) behind your back. Also the middle class's will take the piss. Also why is the kids name different from mummy at parents evening, the kid might wonder. These things happen. It's not baseless chat.

 

if other people's opinions factor this much into Your family life You shouldn't be having kids, or getting married to please other people. 

[Niall Ferguson]

Brem is obviously on point with that checklist.

[Brem]

We all are influenced by General society. That's why I don't pick my nose on the tube.

There are those that don't care about general society and norms. They are the the nose pickers of society.

To be honest. My point wasn't even really centred around what you as an adult think and feel (though that is a factor). What about the kid and how they feel when Susie and Jeffrey in their class have married parents and they don't. They will be different. Different isn't always good.

Anyway let people do them. I'm not going to stand with a placard. I have my own opinions but people aren't going to stop doing what they do just because of what I think.

[Fighting Weight]

We all are influenced by General society. That's why I don't pick my nose on the tube.

There are those that don't care about general society and norms. They are the the nose pickers of society.

To be honest. My point wasn't even really centred around what you as an adult think and feel (though that is a factor). What about the kid and how they feel when Susie and Jeffrey in their class have married parents and they don't. They will be different. Different isn't always good.

Anyway let people do them. I'm not going to stand with a placard. I have my own opinions but people aren't going to stop doing what they do just because of what I think.

 

You seem to have some psychological issues centered around marriage - this isn't the 1960s, nor is it bangladesh, nobody will give two fucks if your parents are married or not

[Brem]

We all are influenced by General society. That's why I don't pick my nose on the tube.

There are those that don't care about general society and norms. They are the the nose pickers of society.

To be honest. My point wasn't even really centred around what you as an adult think and feel (though that is a factor). What about the kid and how they feel when Susie and Jeffrey in their class have married parents and they don't. They will be different. Different isn't always good.

Anyway let people do them. I'm not going to stand with a placard. I have my own opinions but people aren't going to stop doing what they do just because of what I think.

You seem to have some psychological issues centered around marriage - this isn't the 1960s, nor is it bangladesh, nobody will give two f*cks if your parents are married or not

Actually I don't. I'm a balanced human being with my head on straight. There is a proper way and an improper way. Perhaps it is the culture of my parents influencing my thoughts in this matter. But that does mean it is wrong.

The degradation of family values according to many studies in intrinsically linked to marriage being placed as a non-necessity in modern society.

While I have made many points and whether people want to admit it, some very valid points. I have yet to hear one cogent argument against why marriage is better for raising kids.

[Brem]

We all are influenced by General society. That's why I don't pick my nose on the tube.

There are those that don't care about general society and norms. They are the the nose pickers of society.

To be honest. My point wasn't even really centred around what you as an adult think and feel (though that is a factor). What about the kid and how they feel when Susie and Jeffrey in their class have married parents and they don't. They will be different. Different isn't always good.

Anyway let people do them. I'm not going to stand with a placard. I have my own opinions but people aren't going to stop doing what they do just because of what I think.

You seem to have some psychological issues centered around marriage - this isn't the 1960s, nor is it bangladesh, nobody will give two f*cks if your parents are married or not

Actually I don't. I'm a balanced human being with my head on straight. There is a proper way and an improper way. Perhaps it is the culture of my parents influencing my thoughts in this matter. But that doesn't mean it is wrong.

The degradation of family values according to many studies in intrinsically linked to marriage being placed as a non-necessity in modern society.

While I have made many points and whether people want to admit it, some very valid points. I have yet to hear one cogent argument against why marriage is better for raising kids.

[kerser]

No valid points made

Just some wild opinions

[SLEAZE BALL]

So much nonsense I can't address it all.

What children need are 2 individuals that are capable of giving the child the necessary tools and guidance to grow into a well rounded human being.

A marriage certificate is neither here nor there when it comes to such parental qualities. Whether you are or aren't makes little difference to a childs psyche unless YOU plant that seed in your childs mind and put that chip on their shoulder.

Whats relevant in bringing up a child is the quality of life youre giving the child, how good your parental skills are and how well you work as a team with your child's other parent.

If you are unhappily married with children and the main reason for not leaving is because the process of going through a divorce is inconvenient for you, you are probably the type of self gratifying c*nt that shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

/

Explain exactly how a CHILD would benefit from their parents renting privately over renting from a council/housing association?

Nonsense

Absolute nonsense

[Haze-e]

So much nonsense I can't address it all.

What children need are 2 individuals that are capable of giving the child the necessary tools and guidance to grow into a well rounded human being.

A marriage certificate is neither here nor there when it comes to such parental qualities. Whether you are or aren't makes little difference to a childs psyche unless YOU plant that seed in your childs mind and put that chip on their shoulder.

Whats relevant in bringing up a child is the quality of life youre giving the child, how good your parental skills are and how well you work as a team with your child's other parent.

If you are unhappily married with children and the main reason for not leaving is because the process of going through a divorce is inconvenient for you, you are probably the type of self gratifying c*nt that shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

/

Explain exactly how a CHILD would benefit from their parents renting privately over renting from a council/housing association?

Nonsense

Absolute nonsense

All of the above.

[Brem]

So much nonsense I can't address it all.

What children need are 2 individuals that are capable of giving the child the necessary tools and guidance to grow into a well rounded human being.

A marriage certificate is neither here nor there when it comes to such parental qualities. Whether you are or aren't makes little difference to a childs psyche unless YOU plant that seed in your childs mind and put that chip on their shoulder.

Whats relevant in bringing up a child is the quality of life youre giving the child, how good your parental skills are and how well you work as a team with your child's other parent.

If you are unhappily married with children and the main reason for not leaving is because the process of going through a divorce is inconvenient for you, you are probably the type of self gratifying c*nt that shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

/

Explain exactly how a CHILD would benefit from their parents renting privately over renting from a council/housing association?

Nonsense

Absolute nonsense

Too much idiocy to address but I will anyway. Take too sets of parents capable of all you said above. One set married, one set unmarried. Which one is better? Again I ask you to form a cogent argument that shows marriage is not better for raising a child. Of course too happily unmarried people shouldn't stay together and that will impact a child. My point was in the first instance that marriage will (even if it's just 5% more) make someone at least TRY to resolve the issues in the relationship. Family values in this country almost seem like s thing of the past. Civil partnerships, people just not getting married at all. It all ties to the degradation of family life and values. If you don't get married to the mother of your child there is simply not enough faith in the relationship or that family unit lasting. This is now deemed to be ok. Like you win some you lose some and that's not how it should be.

Also in terms of the council house comment. Are you dizzy. Does everything need to be explained to you. if you can't sustain yourself on your own two feet with out government assistance then what right do you have to increase the toll on the uk tax payer by bringing a child into the world that you clearly would not be able to support with monetary assistance. Too many welfare babies brought into the world and the cycle of poverty usually continues because they wind up being more often than not, as wasted and unqualified as their parents. Pregnant in the teens or working below national average wage jobs. Continues on forever it seems.

[Brem]

I can't be bothered to keep banging on about this.

There are a few people catching feelings over my comments. That was not my intention.

In the end if you are catching feelings because you have kids and need government assistance. You were born out of wedlock. Or whatever. Ask yourself why you are catching feelings.

I'm not saying the above situations make bad parents. I am saying it is not the best way to do things. The marriage thing is a demonstration of faith in the relationship prior to having kids and therefore more stable. Many unmarried folks who have kids stay together forever but there fact is they usually took time to be stable and by that point, 15 years down the line either cannot be fucked. Or think it will look stupid to get married at that point. Question is should they have had kids knowing the faith in the relationship wasn't strong enough to get married at that point. I say no. I don't care if you agree with me.

If you have kids knowing fully well you cannot provide wholly for them. You are wasted. Simply put. Again I don't care if you agree.

[Lens]

Clearly elaborate trolling, i'm gonna ignore now, well done for getting this many replies.

[Yoshie]

Someone with a different view doesn't always equal trolling.

Bored of the whole 'must be trolling' argument so you don't have to put your point across.

 

/

 

Having said that, fully agree with what Trap God said.

[SLEAZE BALL]

2 things I will address separately

1) You're going wrong by making the assertion that I need to put together an argument as to why marriage isn't better when that's clearly not my point.

2 sets of parents both with equally great qualities

One set married

One set unmarried

Both children are in equally as good a situation to thrive

This is the voice of someone expressing an objective opinion

Just because one of the scenarios fits your social ideology it doesn't mean that in reality it is better in the sense that it will actually yields better results.

You have the same type of obtuse thinking that has certain kids stringing themselves up on door handles cos they know they can't meet their parents ridiculous expectations.

2) I asked you a very simple question. How does private renting benefit a child over renting from the council/housing association.

Like a bitch you didn't actually answer the question just responded with cheek like are you dizzy etc then started going on about taxpayers

Respect yourself plz

Those words in that order would have you dizzy by the time they even left your mouth IRL drop me out

[Lens]

Yoshi, it wasnt the different view, it was the avoidance of questions and repeated mention of not being able to afford kids, which wasn't mentioned.

Then there's the assumption that I have to be married to 'have faith in my relationship'. I can fully believe in my relationship, then decide I have no interst in a tradition based on religion when I dont follow one. I dont want to spend the money people spend on weddings in one day.

My relationship doesnt need any validation except it being valid to me and her. I dont live my life to please others.

Then there's the assumption that parents have to be in a relationship to raise a child.

If You are trolling, well done. If not, You're a very unfortunately sheltered individual to not realise we live in a world where people live the lives that suit them, and Your unhappily married mummy and daddy who stay together to keep up appearances dont represent the population, nor are they better than anyone who has a different idea of 'family'

[underwriter]

but let lens continue

[Brem]

2 things I will address separately

1) You're going wrong by making the assertion that I need to put together an argument as to why marriage isn't better when that's clearly not my point.

2 sets of parents both with equally great qualities

One set married

One set unmarried

Both children are in equally as good a situation to thrive

This is the voice of someone expressing an objective opinion

Just because one of the scenarios fits your social ideology it doesn't mean that in reality it is better in the sense that it will actually yields better results.

You have the same type of obtuse thinking that has certain kids stringing themselves up on door handles cos they know they can't meet their parents ridiculous expectations.

2) I asked you a very simple question. How does private renting benefit a child over renting from the council/housing association.

Like a bitch you didn't actually answer the question just responded with cheek like are you dizzy etc then started going on about taxpayers

Respect yourself plz

Those words in that order would have you dizzy by the time they even left your mouth IRL drop me out

Look mate chill out.

1) many people on here throw their arms in the air about two men raising a child together who are able to provide all you have mentioned above. They don't deem it socially acceptable. I however don't have a problem with it. So I am not as old fashioned as perhaps you think. And perhaps how I have portrayed myself.

You are right. 2 sets of parents as above may do an equally fantastic job raising a child. I have my view and that's what it is. I would never consider raising a child out of marriage unless it was an accident. That's my view.

2) Before you call me a bitch. Check your level and reassess.i can't be bothered to debate this any further. You are clearly catching feelings/hating/whatever.

My point is implied. If you cannot afford children you should not have children. If your broke ass can't sustain yourself. Then why bring a child into that. It's a shit example to set for a child. Furthermore it is morally bankrupt to expect the state to sustain your children outside of the provision of public services. I own a house, car, have a good job and am financially capable of having a child and setting a good example/benchmark for that child beyond living in the ends and living a half arsed life. I am not emotionally capable yet of having a child and there in lies the ultimate point. You need to have all pieces set to have children. If you don't, you are either not making an informed decision or you are making a stupid decision.

I'm not trolling. I just have a different view. I don't ask you to agree with me. I don't care.

[Lens]

who mentioned having kids they can't afford?

 

who in this thread said "I don't have money but I'm gonna have kids anyway"?