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Russian Plane Crash

Heero Yuy

By Heero Yuy
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Posted

come like some russell howard skit

What's really funny is it's true.

You can't debate me on this. You've negged me and posted one liners since I posted about 3 multi-paragraph posts plus videos, I don't usually rise to these pitiful attempts at standing by a point - if there was room for a debate, you'd fill it.

I've been schooling people on this shit since 2011. Check my posts, I've maintained a position that you've all but partially come around to. Mentioning Qatar and gas pipelines like I, and the people you mock, haven't been saying this shit since the beginning. Fuck Turkey - specifically Erdogan and his cronies, and the filthy Turks who booed the Paris silence against the Greek match (I don't even give a fuck about football) - and the filthy Turkmen rebels, and the Tatars in Crimea and the rest of you warmongering, backstabbing cunts.

You laugh while people are dying, and mock people who speak the truth.

Separate your national pride in this and accept that you can't really be even close to objective on this issue. You've admitted Turks hate Russians and made nods towards the connections - so what are you trying to say?

Make your point ennit, break down what you think is happening or allow the entire discussion.

Youve completely lost the plot
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Elementalism Newbie

Elementalism

Posted
Posted

 

This is a long one but I'll put it up still - Sibel Edmonds is a brilliant analyst/whistleblower - whatever you want to call it. One of them ones you can leave on in the background and dip in and out of.

 

Also been watching a lot of old stuff by Robert Baer (the 'Economic Hitman') on Saudi and the CIA's arrangements. Really interesting - he touches on Prince Bandar's use of the K Street Project's lobbyists to push Saudi interests and do damage control where necessary - beheadings, executions, repression etc.

 

Specifically touches on the revolving door, where former intelligence and government analysts leave positions in Washington, for overpaid, novelty jobs in the Gulf. It keeps the Saudis looking 'clean' - lots of Americans, especially former US state employees padding out the bureaucracy. Americans feel they have 'tabs' on the Saudis, but really the Saudis are keeping tabs on the US - and learning the ways of governance - especially lobbying!

 

Just gonna leave this for you man to really consider something. Where are the leaders, who hold other leaders of this world accountable? Even Putin holds his tongue - I miss these sort of leaders. Nobody can deny that the loss of Gaddafi, Saddam - even the death of Bassel al-Assad - has bolstered the Saudi position. So many powerful Arab, African and Latin American leaders have come and gone..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYY_ws6axKo

 

^

Tell me King Abdullah didn't threaten Gaddafi's life - in front of the Arab League...

 

tumblr_ngy1acfwn51r04g55o1_500.gif

 

 

 

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Posted

Who put the sauds in power ?

Britain cant cry now

Actually funnily enough someone was saying there needs to be regime change in saudi lol was like if theres regime change it will be cameron stepping down

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Elementalism Newbie

Elementalism

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Posted

Who put the sauds in power ?

Britain cant cry now

Actually funnily enough someone was saying there needs to be regime change in saudi lol was like if theres regime change it will be cameron stepping down

 

That's very much by the wayside of my point. Britain and Saudi Arabia have two things in common.

 

They keep their angry young men dependent on the state. Here you've got the benefit system, the education system, the Army, prisons and the 'trapstar lifestyle' among other things to keep us in line. In Saudi you have the Royal charities, which fund and build madrasas and breed and appease the radical sheikhs and imams, as well as the Army and other institutions of state. These sheikhs round up the vulnerable, the criminal, the stupid - and build an army of angry young men who all want blood.

 

Rather than cleaning up house - and overthrowing the House of Saud - these young men are told to fight Iran and the Shias, and cleanse Iraq and Syria - before the final assault on Israel. It's a suicide mission for most of these fools - many of whom do nothing but go to mosque. They have no education, no concept of the world. And even if they are suicidal - they're not stupid. They know they cannot chuck ANYTHING with Bibi or the Israelis. An internal cleansing of Islam is what is happening, funded and facilitated by Sunni monarchs with a shaky grasp on power.

 

There are 'silent ayatollahs' who prop up Saudi, same way there's a religious upper-crust in Iran.

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Elementalism Newbie

Elementalism

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Posted

Safe Ulysses, and yeah Dave it is!

 

For me this was absolutely clear from the very jump. This was NEVER about protesters or protests against the army. This was always intended to be an 'Arab Spring' - not an 'African American Spring' or an 'Angry Male Youth Spring' - in the internet age, that's a dangerous thing to spread. And the fucking feelings WERE spreading! Look back from the start of the credit crunch to now and see how many people have protested, be it austerity protests, student fees protest, anti-corruption protests, the media exposing political scandals and expense fiddling.

 

Look at the examples of protests/riots in the West that have been completely sidelined as 'anarchism' or just completely drained of their political value by the media:

 

Greek Riots in 2008 - started by police killing of a 15 year old young boy. Even in the birthplace of the concept of democracy, angry young men were silenced and denied legitimacy.

 

French Riots in 2009 - started with the police shooting of a young Muslim man. French response was typical, despite their own revolutionary past.

 

Mark Duggan shooting (as well as numerous other violations by the police here, Anthony Grainger etc.) and the subsequent riots were completely ripped by the media. Even Alex Jones was chatting shit telling Americans that it was all about a race war. Just think about this one for a second. Sky News reporters were getting held for their Hasselblads and the media chose to report from safely behind the police lines.

 

Meanwhile Vice hipsters and Western journalists were getting nothing but embedded coverage of Syrian and Libyan 'rebels'...While this was certainly a 'fresh' perspective at the start, it's clearly a fixed narrative that our media has been told to stick with.

 

The Bahrain/Qatar protests that were crushed in the case of Bahrain (by hired internationally sourced Saudi mercenaries, with freshly purchased UK equipment (specifically troop carriers, baton rounds, clubs and gas IIRC) and silenced by Qatar.

 

OccupyWallStreet/BlackLivesMatter/WeAreChange etc. All movements that were COINTELPRO'd and politically castrated. If you consider the amount of repression present in the US - usually in isolation, something BlackLivesMatter has tried to articulate frustratingly - you can see that the US is actually just as bad as Syria is when it comes to political repression, if not moreso.

 

This isn't really specific to a country, but look at what happens to anti G8/G20 protesters?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_G-20_London_summit_protests

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_G-20_Toronto_summit_protests

 

Never in my life have I seen a period where so many revolutions - so many angry young men - have been so lionized and painted in such a heroic light by our domestic press, who at the same time point out how terribly and tyranical these Middle Eastern dictators are. It was disgusting to watch our press fawn over the first foreign fighters who left Europe to go and topple dictators better understood by their parents. I was disgusted at my underdog-supporting, Labour voting, liberal/left wing friends, who immediately saw it as some sort of David vs his political-goliath type struggle. My right wing friends saw it as necessary to stop the evil of ISIS.

 

I'm stuck on my own getting angrier - and older.

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Two months into a bombing campaign in Syria, Russia has caused a lot of collateral damage

One airstrike hit a post office, part of a series of strikes that killed 17 civilians. At least four other attacks targeted hospitals. An airstrike on Sunday hit a marketplace, killing at least 30 people.

Russia’s military intervention in Syria is killing civilians at a high rate in rebel-held areas of the country’s northwest, even as the campaign has failed to produce a decisive shift in the larger civil war between regime of president Bashar Assad and his opponents.

Russia launched a major campaign of airstrikes beginning on September 30 in support of the Assad regime’s fight to maintain and expand the territory it still controls in Syria. The Russian government claims the operation has targeted the extremists of ISIS, but the majority of Russian strikes have actually fallen on areas controlled by mainstream rebel groups opposed to both Assad and ISIS, and often supported by the West.

During the month of October, Russian operations resulted in at least 44 individual strikes that killed between 255 and 375 non-combatants at a conservative estimate, according to Airwars, a watchdog group that carefully combs reports of civilian deaths.

The now two-month-old Russian bombing campaign has also evolved with the shifting tide of the broader crisis in the Middle East. After directing most strikes toward rebel-held areas in the northwest in the early stages of its campaign, it intensified the campaign against ISIS after Russian officials confirmed on November 17 that a Russian airliner had been brought down over Egypt in an attack that had been claimed by an ISIS affiliate.

After Turkey shot down a Russian fighter plane near its own border with Syria last week, there were signs that Russia shifted focus back to the northwest, in apparent retaliation against Turkey and the rebel groups it may support in Syria.

Yuri Barmin, a Moscow-based analyst at Rethinking Russia and the Russian International Affairs Council, said Russia had doubled the number of warplanes operating out of its airbase in Latakia, in northwestern Syria, in a decision issued on November 17, after it was confirmed that the Russian airliner was bombed. “Moscow feels as if it was forced into carrying out strikes [against ISIS] in Raqqa and Deir al-Zour, and now that its fighter jet was shot down over Syria, it says, ‘Okay, we’ll go back to the old strategy and we’ll double our efforts in northwest Syria, even [against] Turkey-supported rebel groups,’” he said.

The front lines between the regime and insurgents in rebel-held cities remain relatively unchanged since the Russian campaign began two months ago. There have been some exceptions, including when government forces broke a siege by ISIS on Kweiris airbase on November 11, breaking an impasse that lasted for over a year and reclaiming a military asset from the jihadists.

But in general, activists, analysts, and monitoring groups say the Russian warplanes have simply bolstered the existing operations by the regime, which to date have killed far more Syrian civilians than any other force in the country. Between January and July of this year, government forces killed 7,894 civilians, according to the Syrian Network for Human Rights (a group critical of Assad), compared to 1,131 killed by ISIS and 734 by armed opposition groups.

In rebel-held Aleppo—once Syria’s largest city, now devastated after nearly five years of rebellion—war-weary residents appear to regard the Russian airstrikes as simply one more source of horror. “We see 10 to 15, sometimes 20 airstrikes a day,” says Rami Jarrah, Syrian media activist currently in Aleppo producing a series of video reports documenting the airstrikes. “There’s an atmosphere of despair. The people in general here have gotten used to the war. They don’t believe that a solution is coming.”

In fact, Jarrah says that the Russian airstrikes have picked up some of the slack from the government’s air force, which is in tatters after years of fighting. That means there are now more conventional airstrikes and fewer improvised barrel bombs, which kill indiscriminately when they fall. Regardless, he sees the Russian campaign as a cynical continuation of the regime’s offensive against anti-ISIS rebels. Neither Russia nor Assad “is preventing ISIS from coming to Aleppo, in terms of Russia or Assad,” he says.

Noah Bonsey, a senior analyst on Syria at International Crisis Group, says that part of the reason the Russian campaign has so far failed to deliver a decisive blow against the rebels is that rebel groups have been able to effectively use U.S.-supplied TOW missiles, a potent weapon that brought down a Russian helicopter last week. “The foreign and local dynamics are all meshed together,” he says. “We’ve seen marginal regime gains in some places, and marginal rebel gains in others.”

The Russian military is far from the only force that is killing civilian in Syria. Raids by the U.S.-led coalition fighting ISIS, have killed between 682 and 977 civilians over the length of the entire campaign since August 2014, according to Airwars.

By comparison, the group reports that Russian strikes are killing civilians at a rate roughly 10 times faster than the coalition. Airwars project director Chris Woods says that video footage of airstrikes released by the Russian government indicate that Russian warplanes are using more primitive, unguided munitions. One video shows a Russian long-range bomber dropping “sticks” of unguided bombs from above the clouds.

“That was a very worrying image for us. There is no control of those munitions. Just dropping a stick like that means its going to cause significant damage on the ground over a wide area,” he says. “We’re very used to seeing those images going back to Vietnam or even the Iraq war in the early 1990s, but we don’t tend to see those kind of images anymore, simply because western militaries have changed the way, generally speaking, they fight.”

In addition, Woods said that the number of civilian deaths resulted from where the Russians are choosing to bomb. “There is no doubt whatsoever that Russia is heavily targeting civilian areas.” While the shooting down of a Russian jet by Turkey produced geopolitical concern over the conflict among great powers in Syria, the reality of the war on the ground will be one of ongoing bloodshed among civilians.

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A Russian military plane with 92 people on board has crashed into the Black Sea, Russia's defence ministry says.

The plane disappeared from radar two minutes after taking off from the resort of Sochi at 05:25 (02:25 GMT). Debris and one body have been found, with no reports of any survivors.

The defence ministry said the Tu-154 was carrying soldiers, 64 members of the famed Alexandrov military music ensemble, and nine reporters.

It was flying to Latakia in Syria.

The flight originated in Moscow and had landed at Adler airport in Sochi for refuelling.

The defence ministry said in a statement: "Fragments of the Tu-154 plane of the Russian defence ministry were found 1.5km (one mile) from the Black Sea coast of the city of Sochi at a depth of 50 to 70m (165-230ft)."

An audio recording played on Russian media and said to be of the final conversation between air traffic controllers and the plane reveals no sign of any difficulties being faced by the crew. 

Voices remain calm until the plane disappears and the controllers try in vain to re-establish contact.

Reports from the area said flying conditions were favourable.

President Vladimir Putin has ordered a state commission to look into the crash and sent his condolences to the families and friends of the victims.

The defence ministry has published a passenger list (in Russian), showing that 64 of those on board were from the Alexandrov Ensemble, including its director, Valery Khalilov.

There were nine journalists, eight soldiers, two civil servants and eight crew members.

Also on board was Elizaveta Glinka, known as Dr Liza, the executive director of the Fair Aid charity and the inaugural winner of Russia's state prize for achievements in human rights.

Mr Konashenkov said the plane was carrying passengers to a New Year's performance for Russian troops deployed in Syria.

The performance was scheduled to take place at Russia's Hmeimim air base, near Latakia.

Russia has been carrying out air strikes in support of Syrian government forces who are battling rebels opposed to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

In April 2010, a Tu-154 plane crashed in Smolensk, western Russia, killing all 96 people on board, including Polish President Lech Kaczynski.

A Tu-154, operated by Siberian Airlines, was shot down over the Black Sea in October 2001, killing 78 people.

The plane was travelling from Tel Aviv in Israel to Novosibirsk in Russia, and most of the passengers were Israeli.

The Ukrainian military initially denied involvement but officials later admitted the plane could have been hit accidentally during a training exercise.

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