Grenfell Tower Fire, Latimer Road, W11

[Drift]

15 minutes ago, Brem said:

Sigh. I didn't say it's their fault for being in social housing. I didn't say it is their fault for burning. Stop jumping on the bandwagon. 

That would be a disgusting opinion and I don't hold it. What I am saying is that this is being politicised so everyone can draw attention to every single social inequality and 100 different agendas.

There are 100 different interviews aired on social media and conventional media wher people are using this as currency against the government (I.e. I want better rather than I want safe) and using this as political capital to highlight social inequalities that have nothing to do with the fire itself.

Get your facts straight or learn to ready and interpret properly.

 

I've actually scrolled past all your posts, and don't care about whatever you've got yourself into in this thread.

I took timebomb's post as an isolated post and it was some real shit.

DW I'm not part of whatever it is you're doing in here. 

[Brem]

15 minutes ago, Grafter said:

You're attitude is disgusting still

Good for you you made it. You're better than this body an that body. What now?

Talkin like you know people 

I had an e-beef with an individual. Search back through the thread. He insulted first, I brought ether back. It's the way it went. 

Others resorted to insults first. I was ready for structured debate. 

Ultimately do I think I am better than people. No not really. I'm always polite and curteous no matter who and I conduct myself humbly in real life. No one except my wife and two or three friends know my story and all the shit I overcame.

But do I rate what I achieved and proud of what I did. Yes. 

If someone insults me. Will I put them in their place? Yes. Take this for what it is.

[Brem]

9 minutes ago, Drift said:

I've actually scrolled past all your posts, and don't care about whatever you've got yourself into in this thread.

I took timebomb's post as an isolated post and it was some real shit.

DW I'm not part of whatever it is you're doing in here. 

Meant to reply to time_bomb. Speaking of which time_bomb, Read through and draw your conclusions but you have grossly misinterpreted by stance and opinions. Please don't put callous opinions in my mouth and read the post above, that is in poor taste to do so. 

[Monday Bandele]

thread comes like

 

 

[Agony]

 

[Da Luv Doc]

I'm hearing black people act like Brems on lbc smh. These types of blacks make me sick! About "this is an affluent area, they should sell the building and build homes in "preston" for these people and these people have done nothing for them to remain or even live in that area"

 

These are the cunts that need to die, people who say shit like that!

[Brem]

3 minutes ago, Da Luv Doc said:

I'm hearing black people act like Brems on lbc smh. These types of blacks make me sick! About "this is an affluent area, they should sell the building and build homes in "preston" for these people and these people have done nothing for them to remain or even live in that area"

 

These are the cunts that need to die, people who say shit like that!

I said on the previous page that they should build social housing on the site and it would be profiteering and distasteful for the government to do otherwise.

Therefore be quiet and stop making comparisons to me. 

[Da Luv Doc]

I live in an affluent city, away from London. However, I do not look at people from council housing and think "I made it, you should have made it too." I know nothing of their situation so I don't assume shit. I chat some shit on here about nothing subjects but I'm not a d*ckhead, both on here nor in real life.

[Mr. Martinez]

'I'm humble and a nice person in real life'

 

lost yout

[Grafter]

Minutes silence at 11am

[Gambino]

Swear the guys who are talking shit to Brem and trying to act humble are the same dudes who try talk shit to me for being from a working class background lol. Fucks going on around here.

[Mephisto]

15 hours ago, ag. said:

People like Brem are scum

Proper coon. Got a little money & now looks down on the people he grew up with.

[Da Luv Doc]

6 minutes ago, Gambino said:

Swear the guys who are talking shit to Brem and trying to act humble are the same dudes who try talk shit to me for being from a working class background lol. Fucks going on around here.

I get at you because you're a xenophobic c*nt.

[Gambino]

4 minutes ago, Da Luv Doc said:

I get at you because you're a xenophobic c*nt.

Ahhh so you don't really mean it then. Bless you. Warms my heart to know.

[PascalMoriarty]

Dunno why the vipers spent so much time on Brem, he is ignorant to his ignorance. That having come up from a deprived background didn't open his eyes to the realities of the class system within the united kingdom would identify him as likely of some intelligence, but not of insight.

Time Bomb is a prime example of someone who gets it, any of us who's parents lived in council housing or still do, understand the struggle and how hard it is trying to come up out of an area rife with desperation and where most have had all hope beaten out of them anyway. But the difference is Time Bomb is appreciative of that time in his life it would seem, whereas Brem treats it with disdain. 

I'm happy my parents got us out of Peckham/Camberwell, into Dagenham and then into deeper Essex, they achieved that coming here with next to no education and not a penny in their pocket. But for all those who didn't make it out, they're victims of circumstance, they're still the women who looked out for us on the estate, still the families my mum would leave us with when she was working back to back night and day shifts, I'm no different to any of them. And this isn't the 90's anymore, that shit don't come easy.

Brem i hope moving tax brackets has given you the self confidence you crave, but I'd encourage you to understand that you're alot closer to the guys in Grenfell, than the guys you currently rub shoulders with, and at any given time could find yourself back there. I hope you don't come across someone who feels its their duty to remind you of this in a more painful and embarrassing way, but then again maybe its what you need.

 

[Grafter]

Sone clarity on difference between an inquest and a public inquiry from the solicitor who worked on the lakanal house fire 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/19/grenfell-tower-tragedy-public-inquiry-inquest-fire-victims

[Brem]

51 minutes ago, Da Luv Doc said:

I live in an affluent city, away from London. However, I do not look at people from council housing and think "I made it, you should have made it too." I know nothing of their situation so I don't assume shit. I chat some shit on here about nothing subjects but I'm not a d*ckhead, both on here nor in real life.

Once again. I didn't say that. 

I said many persons are using this to jump on a soap box and push hundred different social issues. It's not even Grenfell residents it is others in the area that want to point the finger everywhere. Statements like "there are rich folks down the road and we have very little" etc... which have been made, cloud the issue. Which is that the government need to make these blocks safe. 

If someone wants to use this tragedy to say "we can't even get jobs" or push some unrelated inequality agenda, yes I have no sympathy. This is about people who died, people who lost everything and thousands more living in unsafe buildings. Not about constantly pointing to the rich poor divide that will dilute the action that needs to be taken as priority. If someone wants to blame racism and poverty and talk about not having a job live on air when there are people that lost everything then yes... I call them wasted and excuse makers and think they are not industrious enough to be anything more. This is not the time for people to push their own agendas talking about youth centres and shit, the focus needs to be on the people who immediately need help. 

Thats why I said these other folks are wasted and need to stop making public excuses for their own woe is me agenda. This was not in reference to the victims of Grenfell but you lot need to paint me as some establishment figure to argue against by twisting my words. 

[Brem]

48 minutes ago, PascalMoriarty said:

Dunno why the vipers spent so much time on Brem, he is ignorant to his ignorance. That having come up from a deprived background didn't open his eyes to the realities of the class system within the united kingdom would identify him as likely of some intelligence, but not of insight.

Time Bomb is a prime example of someone who gets it, any of us who's parents lived in council housing or still do, understand the struggle and how hard it is trying to come up out of an area rife with desperation and where most have had all hope beaten out of them anyway. But the difference is Time Bomb is appreciative of that time in his life it would seem, whereas Brem treats it with disdain. 

I'm happy my parents got us out of Peckham/Camberwell, into Dagenham and then into deeper Essex, they achieved that coming here with next to no education and not a penny in their pocket. But for all those who didn't make it out, they're victims of circumstance, they're still the women who looked out for us on the estate, still the families my mum would leave us with when she was working back to back night and day shifts, I'm no different to any of them. And this isn't the 90's anymore, that shit don't come easy.

Brem i hope moving tax brackets has given you the self confidence you crave, but I'd encourage you to understand that you're alot closer to the guys in Grenfell, than the guys you currently rub shoulders with, and at any given time could find yourself back there. I hope you don't come across someone who feels its their duty to remind you of this in a more painful and embarrassing way, but then again maybe its what you need.

 

I don't think I am better for moving tax brackets FYI. I think I am better than excuse makers jumping on air to say "there are no opportunities" or related shit like that. When this detracts from what the issue is primarily which is unsafe buildings which thousands of people live in. I relented on my point which was that these people didn't die because they were poor, I'm big enough to listen to the arguments made and it is clear that if these were private flats a lot more care over fire safety would have been taken. So I backed away from that point and said I was wrong in my initial stance.

what I won't back away from is what I deem to be disgusting behaviour in people trying to use this tragedy to push agendas that have nothing to do with what happened or at best are tenuously linked. Such as talking about jobs and opportunities. These as wastemen who are trying to promote their own agenda or grievances with society. How will actionable change happen if every man and their dog uses Grenfell as a symbol for what is wrong with society or worse yet use this as an example as to why their life is not fine and dandy and they deserve better. Even though they are not Grenfell residents. I was saying these folks need to look in the mirror and think is the quality of their life in their control. Stop excuse making and take action! This wasn't addressing the people who lost their lives or lost all their worldly possessions and got a sheg 5k offer from the government. These are two different sets of people I was referring to and its former who I will gladly say, yes, I am better than them. Not because of bank balances, not because of job but because I worked hard to improve my quality of life and don't use the tragedies of others to make excuses. 

Its the same as a kid in school saying "the teachers don't help me because I'm black". It's excuse making and irrelevant. Yet this and waste but someone using Grenfell in the same manner is not?

[Brem]

1 hour ago, Mephisto said:

Proper coon. Got a little money & now looks down on the people he grew up with.

If the people I grew up with are criminals, drug addicts, drug dealers or on benefits or even worse those who were smart and had potential and squandered it to be road. The yes of course I am better. Its nothing to do with money. It's to do with drive and strength of character. 

[Salem Saberhagen]

5 minutes ago, Brem said:

I don't think I am better for moving tax brackets FYI. I think I am better than excuse makers jumping on air to say "there are no opportunities" or related shit like that. When this detracts from what the issue is primarily which is unsafe buildings which thousands of people live in. I relented on my point which was that these people didn't die because they were poor, I'm big enough to listen to the arguments made and it is clear that if these were private flats a lot more care over fire safety would have been taken. So I backed away from that point and said I was wrong in my initial stance.

It's odd that you would separate the treatment of poor people inso far as they are given sub-quality, possible illegally constructed housing in order to cut corners. But expect no overspill with regards to the emotions generated by such an incident.

This has happened against the wider backdrop of a recent recession, increased minority scapegoating, riots, the rise of the far right, and more and more cuts to social housing, all of which would have been realities for the residents and demographics in question

11 minutes ago, Brem said:

These as wastemen who are trying to promote their own agenda or grievances with society. How will actionable change happen if every man and their dog uses Grenfell as a symbol for what is wrong with society

I suspect you will struggle to find a better example of what is wrong with society than corners being cut to provide poor people with substandard and unsafe housing which resulted in their deaths. I don't think there is a more obvious metaphor of class discrimination. So what is the issue with Grenfell becoming symbolic of one of the major issues of our age, and most ages that have preceded it? 

Again, I have not seen any agenda pushing outside of something like legal and fiscal equality, except the one moron who said it was some sort of false flag / intentional fire to gentrify the area.

What agendas being pushed aren't important?

Social equality? Financial Equality? Accountability for corporations and government?

I sense you begin to get to the fringe when you move past those, so I am not sure who you are fighting against 

[Salem Saberhagen]

20 minutes ago, Brem said:

If the people I grew up with are criminals, drug addicts, drug dealers or on benefits or even worse those who were smart and had potential and squandered it to be road. The yes of course I am better. Its nothing to do with money. It's to do with drive and strength of character. 

As an almost complete segue here, much of what you consider to be your own drive and self determination are in reality just as influenced by your genetics and your upbringing as something like your height.

Every decision you or I make has a host of chemical and neural reactions that precede it that we neither understand, nor control. A persons psychological make-up is largely outside of their immediate influence.

As much as you may want to try, you cannot account for why the people you speak of are how they are, and why you are not like them. The fact of the matter is, if you had the same genetic makeup, the same parents, the same environment...you would be them. Literally.

It's honestly probably more compassionate to realise you are one of the very few people that managed to escape a life of firstly poverty, and secondly mediocrity to do whatever you do, rather than just loathe the people who didn't, because if you didn't have the mental, emotional or environmental resources (all of which are not your choosing), then you wouldn't have done so.

It's fair to call a spade a spade, and there are indeed a lot of wastemen and ne'er-do-wells about, but you are coming across as intensely self righteous.

[Badman]

Death toll now risen to 79

/

Brem having a mare 

 

[Brem]

1 hour ago, Salem Saberhagen said:

 It's odd that you would separate the treatment of poor people inso far as they are given sub-quality, possible illegally constructed housing in order to cut corners. But expect no overspill with regards to the emotions generated by such an incident.

This has happened against the wider backdrop of a recent recession, increased minority scapegoating, riots, the rise of the far right, and more and more cuts to social housing, all of which would have been realities for the residents and demographics in question

I suspect you will struggle to find a better example of what is wrong with society than corners being cut to provide poor people with substandard and unsafe housing which resulted in their deaths. I don't think there is a more obvious metaphor of class discrimination. So what is the issue with Grenfell becoming symbolic of one of the major issues of our age, and most ages that have preceded it? 

Again, I have not seen any agenda pushing outside of something like legal and fiscal equality, except the one moron who said it was some sort of false flag / intentional fire to gentrify the area.

What agendas being pushed aren't important?

Social equality? Financial Equality? Accountability for corporations and government?

I sense you begin to get to the fringe when you move past those, so I am not sure who you are fighting against 

But what is the end game for social change? I see fire safety as the priority. End game there is sprinklers, fire alarms, non flammable cladding etc... ensuring people are safe.

what do people want from social change. More investment? More money? More jobs? More recognition? More housing. It's all over the place and lacks focus or any measurability.

 

[Simply D]

 

[PascalMoriarty]

56 minutes ago, Brem said:

But what is the end game for social change? I see fire safety as the priority. End game there is sprinklers, fire alarms, non flammable cladding etc... ensuring people are safe.

what do people want from social change. More investment? More money? More jobs? More recognition? More housing. It's all over the place and lacks focus or any measurability.

 

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse for the purpose of facilitating the debate further or if indeed you fail to miss the irony in what you're saying. The social change people want, is to not have to ask for basics like "sprinklers, fire alarms, non flammable cladding etc". They're asking that the safety of 650 people housed by the local authority and as a result in their care to an extent, not be an afterthought to ensuring the rich in the area have something decent to look at. Surely you can understand this, its frustrating that you keep asking.