Grenfell Tower Fire, Latimer Road, W11

[Heero Yuy]

 

6 minutes ago, FA23 said:

Need to summon @TF S4DK to come and debate with darkman

Coming like when Mewtwo appears and you need the master ball.

[ag.]

On 6/18/2017 at 8:10 PM, Brem said:

Why? Because I don't agree with your basic outlook on life. You're a dim twat

You're a proper silly c*nt. Can't even be bothered with u i know exactly what type of faggot u are

[Brem]

8 minutes ago, ag. said:

You're a proper silly c*nt. Can't even be bothered with u i know exactly what type of faggot u are

Wow you had to really scroll back to dig this post and develop your well thought out response. Well done you basic c*nt. Such a waste little d*ckhead. I don't take you seriously. Say what you want to get forum ratings as you did in your initial post insulting me rather than engaging in any meaningful discussion. You are and mean nothing. 

[ag.]

You're a faggot bro its as simple as that

[Brem]

14 minutes ago, ag. said:

You're a faggot bro its as simple as that

FYI not your bro. Ok little buddy? You're implying I'm gay? Or do you not know what that word means?

[PascalMoriarty]

NGL - the fact that this thread descends into these personal spats undermines the meaningful conversation thats been had. Mods need to start a topic for those who just want to chuck shit at each other. 

[Da Luv Doc]

This Brem and ag back and forth is fucking annoying. ag is on ignore, don't want to put Brem on ignore, don't agree with what he says in this thread but I won't say he has nothing useful to say in other threads. Brem, allow the back and forth and ignore ag.

[ag.]

Never usually on starting this back and forth thing on here, i read thats muppets comment and genuinely felt a way. Same as when I read something from some thick racist northerner on facebook. You need to try put some sense in their heads. 

[Brem]

I made a point. You disagree with the perspective. In stead of conversing or debating, you insulted me. What response did you think you were going to get. 

Ive relented on many points where convincing arguments were made. I don't stick to a point if I think it is wrong. You however just decided to sling mud in what I can only presume is GSCE D grade English.

Additionally I don't see why people are getting so emosh. I said that non Grenfell residents standing up and using this for a wider political agenda such as education, jobs, policing are soap boxing and this detracts from the actionable change that needs to happen immediately to ensure people are safe in their homes. Now I see people are talking cause and effect (I.e. These people died because they are poor and they are poor because of jobs, education etc...). While I agree they died because they are poor it is because the local authority didn't give a shit about fire safety or the basic safety needs of the poor. I relented on my initial stance and agreed with this. 

But non Grenfell residents standing up and talking about these wider issues are talking like this is the Sudan. There is free at source education, healthcare and for our poorest, housing. Have you seen the German ghettos or French? We look after our people far better and my stance has been all along that while things are not perfect and we need to continue to improve. For any able minded and bodied individual the opportunities to succeed exist.

i actually voted labour to end austerity and make things easier for the poor and make social programs more accesible and prevalent. A smart vote would have been Tory if all I cared about was my net pay (torys weee cutting the higher rate). 

But stance is. This is one of the greatest countries for social mobility and anyone can make it and I am all for making that easier. 

This has been one massive tangent in the conversation. So I'm going to leave it there. 

[Drift]

This guy's still explaining himself 

[Grafter]

33 minutes ago, PascalMoriarty said:

NGL - the fact that this thread descends into these personal spats undermines the meaningful conversation thats been had. Mods need to start a topic for those who just want to chuck shit at each other. 

Yh this has all pissed me off

U lot kno this is still a tragedy yh? Still countless dead human beings

Still not had a decent response from the council.

Still more an more people tellin their stories

Still people who have lost absolutely everything 

Still people who dont kno

[Haze-e]

I've neglected to really comment on the political stuff because all of my points are and already have been made by others, just pos and move on but Brem... Come on man.

 

Can you seriously STILL be saying this isn't political despite how clearly and concisely it has been made in this thread? 

 

Regardless of whether schooling and healthcare and whatever else is free. Regardless of whether you came up from the slum slums to where you are now because of hard work. Regardless of whether YOU feel this should be SOLELY about Grenfell the fact remains this is a major failing by the government and this is not their only failing. Nor the only way they have let down the public and had people feeling a way due to social status or race. Why can you not see that? ESPECIALLY as an Asian (IIRC forgive me if wrong) man that grew up in shittier circumstances than you are in now. 

 

I could have been a millionaire by now I would never have forgotten where I came from. How the government and police etc have dealt with me and my community, and had the same empathy and same stance on it as I do now. Nothing changes.

[Esquilax]

no one house should be more susceptible to having a fire tear through it than any other - if there are standards they should be met regardless of the cost or of who lives in that house/ block.

[PascalMoriarty]

44 minutes ago, Brem said:

But non Grenfell residents standing up and talking about these wider issues are talking like this is the Sudan. There is free at source education, healthcare and for our poorest, housing. Have you seen the German ghettos or French? We look after our people far better and my stance has been all along that while things are not perfect and we need to continue to improve. For any able minded and bodied individual the opportunities to succeed exist.

 

Jesus Man, wake up.
Free at source education:- Doesn't matter that its free if theres no consistency across the quality of education provided to those unable to access paid for institutions. 

Healthcare: In a shoddier state than its ever been

Housing: You're in a topic that is literally the best evidence that the housing being provided is substandard.

For every point you raise the counter is that its not good enough, if you're going to provide any of the above with a view to improving the quality of life of those in need of it, then offering a poor service is counterproductive to your initial goal. You mention the German and the French as if to say someone poor in London gives two shits that they'd be worse off in France or Germany. 

On the one hand you claim to understand the points raised but in trying to evidence what it is you understand, display a clear misunderstanding of what we're ultimately trying to get at. I want more soapboxes if im honest, I want more people to stand up and make it known that being less well off isn't an excuse for the government to consider you subservient. 

[Brem]

I said I would leave it there and I am. I'm agreeing with Grafter. This was a tragedy. The causality of the tragedy is the debate and where we have differing opinions but we all agree on the end result and what this was. 

But I am going to say one thing. Those painting me as some establishment crony or lacking empathy for the victims and those affected couldn't be further from the Truth. I donated to the Grenfell dispossessed fund and stopped colleagues typing and continuing phone conversations during the 1min silence. I just have different opinions on what needs to be fixed is all. 

[Seydou]

You want the sole focus to be on the victims of this tragedy, which is understandable

Issue with that is, can you guarantee the government won't let this happen again to similar demographic?

Government can easily relocate the victims and everyone's happy but how are you sure they won't cut corners again. This could easily happen to people we know who live in tower blocks.

Now if we hold them responsible and show our outrage, listing all type of fuckery they got away with in recent years, I'm sure they will behave differently next time.

 

[Mr. Martinez]

Great Britain has one of the worst social mobility rates in the western world you numpty 

[Heero Yuy]

4 hours ago, ag. said:

Never usually on starting this back and forth thing on here, i read thats muppets comment and genuinely felt a way. Same as when I read something from some thick racist northerner on facebook. You need to try put some sense in their heads. 

do you actually read or believe what you type? You are top 3 selected derailers.,,

ag enters thread

proceeds by calling somone idiot\d*ck\c*nt

tells them they're stupid and why they're wrong

RINSE AND REPEAT

 

 

[ag.]

Majority of my posts on here are on the topic of the thread not tryna be a little bitch digging up old posts

[Heero Yuy]

You still mad because I quoted you contradicting yourself? I do it all the time but I don't go into period pains over it.

[ag.]

Another pointless back n forth

[TF S4DK]

18 hours ago, FA23 said:

Need to summon @TF S4DK to come and debate with darkman

Haven't been following the thread tbh.

[Grafter]

2 hours ago, Heero Yuy said:

I don't go into period pains over it.

Doesnt even make sense what u said there

Brb jus goin into period pains

[Brem]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Martinez said:

Great Britain has one of the worst social mobility rates in the western world you numpty 

Allow the insults firstly. Scandinavia and Canada aside, I think Britain is up there. Though I will admit that the ratio of wealthy to poor has reduced which indicates things have worsened since the 80s. But are you legitimately telling me this country is devoid of opportunities to progress so long as you work hard?

[Mr. Martinez]

 

Do a quick Google search and humble yourself. Man said he thinks you know. 

'You don't have a fucking clue what's going on...

...your eyes are glued the fuck shut...'