South Africa votes to confiscate white-owned land without compensation

[Heero Yuy]

 

Quote

 

SOUTH Africa’s parliament has voted in favour of a motion that will begin the process of amending the country’s Constitution to allow for the confiscation of white-owned land without compensation.

The motion was brought by Julius Malema, leader of the radical Marxist opposition party the Economic Freedom Fighters, and passed overwhelmingly by 241 votes to 83 against. The only parties who did not support the motion were the Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Cope and the African Christian Democratic Party.

It was amended but supported by the ruling African National Congress and new president Cyril Ramaphosa, who made land expropriation a key pillar of his policy platform after taking over from ousted PM Jacob Zumaearlier this month.

“The time for reconciliation is over. Now is the time for justice,” Mr Malema was quoted by News24 as telling parliament. “We must ensure that we restore the dignity of our people without compensating the criminals who stole our land.”

 

 

Zimbabwe 2.0

rip SA and the rand. 

[Kuffir]

is this gd or bad

 

for my broddas

[Supermalt]

GABOS

[SLEAZE BALL]

It's good

Don't matter if it takes 100 years to get shit right imo

They have no right to the land and it should be given back to its rightful owners

They have a similar thing over here called the proceeds of crime act I believe ?

[Heero Yuy]

Has socialism ever bought about a good end...

[Grafter]

LOL

Tears dem a come

[Vtec]

if it means getting rid of peeps like him, then good.

Them Boers are dirt.

[Incumbent]

42 minutes ago, Trap God said:

It's good

Don't matter if it takes 100 years to get shit right imo

They have no right to the land and it should be given back to its rightful owners

They have a similar thing over here called the proceeds of crime act I believe ?

done know especially the part in red

[SLEAZE BALL]

55 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

Has socialism ever bought about a good end...

I meaaaan

We can call it socialism even though its not

Either way I do believe you'd prefer it to the "capitalist" option which would be the natives taking back their land the same way that whites got it in the first place even though personally I wouldn't see anything morally wrong with it ??‍♂️

[Heero Yuy]

What else would you call the government forcefully taking wealth and redistributing it?

i’m not suggesting a captialist solution either per say. I’m saying if you look at history, and where this path takes you, i’m not sure how you can advocate what’s happening as good. SA literally had refugees swarming in from Zimbabwe because mugabe did the same thing, which came from good intentions.

[Incumbent]

7 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

What else would you call the government forcefully taking wealth and redistributing it?

i’m not suggesting a captialist solution either per say. I’m saying if you look at history, and where this path takes you, i’m not sure how you can advocate what’s happening as good. SA literally had refugees swarming in from Zimbabwe because mugabe did the same thing.

So good is letting the people of the land have nothing? keep things are they are i suppose

[Heero Yuy]

6 minutes ago, Incumbent said:

So good is letting the people of the land have nothing? keep things are they are i suppose

 

No, i'm saying there are better ways of doing things than driving your economy off a cliff face.

I'm pretty sure most of us would say look at history, look at the lessons of history, ...history,history,history.. until history shows you something that works against your narratives...

[Incumbent]

22 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

 

No, i'm saying there are better ways of doing things that driving your economy off a cliff face. 

like?

doesn't really matter what solutions you come up with coz chances are its been tried and each time the whites have shut it down with no fucks given

heero, what u need to understand is black ppl of SA have been trying for years to get land/wealth/resources from the hands of the whites since i don't know when tbh

they comes a time when enough is enough

and i am not buying this notion that SA will economically fall of a cliff, if it does it will be more to do with the economic sanctions that will be imposed by western countries/imf/world bank etc than whites loosing giving back land, zim didn't suffer more coz whites were kicked out, it suffered coz most whites outside zim (the west) stopped doing business and economic sanctions were imposed

what does that say about the fuckery?

 

 

[Drift]

It's a new world, no one is shook of Trump's America or Brexit Britain.

South Africa got too many resources to turn into Zimbabwe, they'll be fine. 

[Incumbent]

24 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

 

I'm pretty sure most of us would say look at history, look at the lessons of history, ...history,history,history.. until history shows you something that works against your narratives...

are you mad? motherfuckers stay re-writing history

yeah their learning alright but not to create some utopia for all of us to live in peace and harmony

nah, their just reinforcing and strengthening their positions

[Heero Yuy]

19 minutes ago, Incumbent said:

like?

doesn't really matter what solutions you come up with coz chances are its been tried and each time the whites have shut it down with no fucks given

heero, what u need to understand is black ppl of SA have been trying for years to get land/wealth/resources from the hands of the whites since i don't know when tbh

they comes a time when enough is enough

and i am not buying this notion that SA will economically fall of a cliff, if it does it will be more to do with the economic sanctions that will be imposed by western countries/imf/world bank etc than whites loosing their land, zim didn't suffer more coz whites were kicked out, it suffered coz most whites outside zim (the west) stopped doing business and economic sanctions were imposed

what does that say about the fuckery?

 

 

 

I know that trying solutions that have failed and resulted in starvation and death of thousands isn't a good idea, that's literally basic logic and process of elimination.

lol yes of course Zimbabwe didn't suffer because it kicked out all of their highly skilled workers and replaced them with people that didn't have the same high skills. Remove the high skilled workers from ANY country, and expect it lose lots of money fast, investors to run a mile, your economy to plummet, basic economics.

Again, facts.

Your opinion trying to battle against centuries of economic history is laughable, not just in Africa but the world over.

   

 

 

[Vtec]

56 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

What else would you call the government forcefully taking wealth and redistributing it?

i’m not suggesting a captialist solution either per say. I’m saying if you look at history, and where this path takes you, i’m not sure how you can advocate what’s happening as good. SA literally had refugees swarming in from Zimbabwe because mugabe did the same thing, which came from good intentions.

Having travelled to Cuba, a so called communist/socialist country... the demonisation of such policies is a myth.. Looking at the western attitudes towards this and reviewing historical events.

The clear picture of fear was and is only driven by captialists... (not the masses) however the masses soon got indoctrinated to hate and fear commies and socialism, via the tools of propaganda held by those few true capitalist seekers. (eg the uber rich, who need to keep their riches and division from the lower sheep classes)

The idea of shared wealth and resource as a collective does not resonate with your corps and capital adventurers. This attitude spills into the common man fiending for material goods and riches and is easily controlled in his or hers greed or material fixation.

Back to Cuba (though its changing from pressure by USA in such close proxy, and captialists seeking to exploit financial gain) the social dynamics on how people function compared to a western country like USA and UK. Put us to shame, even though they are not rich, there is sense of unification and moral code and next to no greed (if it's present, it is well hid) but flipside gov is more rigged, but this is no difference to a so called democratic policy. The true halls of power eg house of parliament or congress, the actual foundation of the process is flawed from the get go, you cannot go against the institutions.

(but they will let you hammer your hate or love towards the seated puppet, they present to you)

These Leninism & Marxisms paradigms are exactly that.. just paradigms of a "Hegelian dialectic" -  philosophy. an interpretive method in which the contradiction between a proposition (thesis) and its antithesis is resolved at a higher level of truth (synthesis)

Which always feeds back to the favour of the rich collective.

[SLEAZE BALL]

19 minutes ago, Drift said:

It's a new world, no one is shook of Trump's America or Brexit Britain.

South Africa got too many resources to turn into Zimbabwe, they'll be fine. 

Lol

Zim got more natural resources than SA tbh

As incumbent said it's the sanctions that are fucking man over

[Supermalt]

2 hours ago, Heero Yuy said:

Has socialism ever bought about a good end...

Brought a income to the colonizers who took it in the first place for generations

I see the cons to this, but would be mad to cape for the occupiers. No way.

[Heero Yuy]

32 minutes ago, Vtec said:

Having travelled to Cuba, a so called communist/socialist country... the demonisation of such policies is a myth.. Looking at the western attitudes towards this and reviewing historical events.

The clear picture of fear was and is only driven by captialists... (not the masses) however the masses soon got indoctrinated to hate and fear commies and socialism, via the tools of propaganda held by those few true capitalist seekers. (eg the uber rich, who need to keep their riches and division from the lower sheep classes)

The idea of shared wealth and resource as a collective does not resonate with your corps and capital adventurers. This attitude spills into the common man fiending for material goods and riches and is easily controlled in his or hers greed or material fixation.

Back to Cuba (though its changing from pressure by USA in such close proxy, and captialists seeking to exploit financial gain) the social dynamics on how people function compared to a western country like USA and UK. Put us to shame, even though they are not rich, there is sense of unification and moral code and next to no greed (if it's present, it is well hid) but flipside gov is more rigged, but this is no difference to a so called democratic policy. The true halls of power eg house of parliament or congress, the actual foundation of the process is flawed from the get go, you cannot go against the institutions.

(but they will let you hammer your hate or love towards the seated puppet, they present to you)

These Leninism & Marxisms paradigms are exactly that.. just paradigms of a "Hegelian dialectic" -  philosophy. an interpretive method in which the contradiction between a proposition (thesis) and its antithesis is resolved at a higher level of truth (synthesis)

Which always feeds back to the favour of the rich collective.

While you’re on the subject of Cuba why not discuss about the younger generation feeling stifled by the lack of opportunity, progress and openness about Cuba. Why are many of them trying to leave, why aren’t they allowed to leave the island without permission, why are they not allowed to return home if they stay away too long.  

The freedom that allowed you to travel to Cuba and experience if for yourself lol.

which authority did you have to ask to leave the uk?

[Vtec]

26 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

While you’re on the subject of Cuba why not discuss about the younger generation feeling stifled by the lack of opportunity, progress and openness about Cuba. Why are many of them trying to leave, why aren’t they allowed to leave the island without permission, why are they not allowed to return home if they stay away too long.  The younger generation of Cubans do not reflect the sentiments that your expressing.

I spoke with some of the youngers there. Imagine... you work in the hotels, work in Havana, or you are a doctor.... you earn the same wage!  Combine their now exposure to the outside world via internet which is only just being rolled out over there, so now they see the Nikes, Beemas, celebs and what they percieve to be the life.... (when in reality it is isn't)

Then add you see western tourists (non USA, as they are not allowed in "YET") the money the tourists are spending, is like a years salary on a gift or meal... (add this complex to the above) the desire for material gain and wealth bug of captialism has them tranced... and wanting to leave). Massive cruise ships pulling into Havana Bay... working hard for tips..

Some of them where hanging hopes that Obama was going to lift sancations. Trump wont as he knows his elect force will see a flood of cubans rushing for immigration status, to seek what they percieve riches bound. (you and I know, thats a myth, and usually turn onto some crud movements to get it)

They can leave the island no problem, they just cant return! so imagine your family and friends and your house.. and possessions.  In cuba if you leave, you are allowed to sell up and go, but cannot come back.. eg with your new wealth and upset socialistic financial balance... working over there.

Cuba remains undeveloped only by way of US embargo, but china and russia and canada are traders and some US restrictions are being eased.

The youth are seeking the mess, of what is called modern western and upscaled society...  (and is anything but that) and the youth have no experience or insight to see the bigger picture.

When that social pressure builds up into a poltical agenda.. capitalists coprs are circling like vultures to pounce on CUBA when all embargos are lifted and which ever puppet leader bends over to Uncle Sam. And all the youth will drain out the country into USA. And Cuba becomes a playground for rich Americans again.. full of KFC's MCd's and tacky shit. and real poverty will be evident.

Which is what Castro was booting out.

[Vtec]

53 minutes ago, Heero Yuy said:

The freedom that allowed you to travel to Cuba and experience if for yourself lol.

which authority did you have to ask to leave the uk?

Non, and this freedom of travel wasn't my fight. I'm UK born, I get it by default proxy of the old english emprie ruling the glorious waves. My grandparents and parents where invited over here as they where already subjects of the crown through colonial rule on an island next to Cuba

Fringe legacy benefits of the colonial (go anywhere I please and takeover package)... take advantage I guess.

 

[Heero Yuy]

2 hours ago, Vtec said:

I spoke with some of the youngers there. Imagine... you work in the hotels, work in Havana, or you are a doctor.... you earn the same wage!  Combine their now exposure to the outside world via internet which is only just being rolled out over there, so now they see the Nikes, Beemas, celebs and what they percieve to be the life.... (when in reality it is isn't)

Then add you see western tourists (non USA, as they are not allowed in "YET") the money the tourists are spending, is like a years salary on a gift or meal... (add this complex to the above) the desire for material gain and wealth bug of captialism has them tranced... and wanting to leave). Massive cruise ships pulling into Havana Bay... working hard for tips..

Some of them where hanging hopes that Obama was going to lift sancations. Trump wont as he knows his elect force will see a flood of cubans rushing for immigration status, to seek what they percieve riches bound. (you and I know, thats a myth, and usually turn onto some crud movements to get it)

They can leave the island no problem, they just cant return! so imagine your family and friends and your house.. and possessions.  In cuba if you leave, you are allowed to sell up and go, but cannot come back.. eg with your new wealth and upset socialistic financial balance... working over there.

Cuba remains undeveloped only by way of US embargo, but china and russia and canada are traders and some US restrictions are being eased.

The youth are seeking the mess, of what is called modern western and upscaled society...  (and is anything but that) and the youth have no experience or insight to see the bigger picture.

When that social pressure builds up into a poltical agenda.. capitalists coprs are circling like vultures to pounce on CUBA when all embargos are lifted and which ever puppet leader bends over to Uncle Sam. And all the youth will drain out the country into USA. And Cuba becomes a playground for rich Americans again.. full of KFC's MCd's and tacky shit. and real poverty will be evident.

Which is what Castro was booting out.

 

I don’t think you have to open country to the vultures of capitalism by default . This has not happened in China who have benefited GREATLY from free market economics while still being able to hold on to communist ideals. Communist countries choose to be isolationist which is a reason why there economies falter, as well as many other reason. 

Cuba has remained undeveloped for many reasons, some external, some internal. A societal model that doesn’t encourage innovation, creation, reward or working hard will remain undeveloped regardless of sanctions or embargo etc. People aren’t going to chase careers in science, medicine and engineering to get paid the same as someone cleaning toilets.

 What youth feels inspired in a country where their individual rights are nothing vs the group. The youth have access to the internet so I know that their sense of modern western values and a up scaled society aren't just based off rich tourists they encounter. 

 

 

 

[Vtec]

Yeah I don't agree with how salary thing works out there.. My tour guide during part of trip. Said she makes more money doing guides and she's a qualified teacher. 

But they have a better social structure and next to no crime, no obvious racism cos everyone is in the same boat. Oh yeah can't criticise the government openly. 

But that said I agree stagnates various things. But how far to you go to strike a happy medium retaining what I saw as special to that country. And not turn into a sess pit of greed and western style poverty. 

@Heero Yuy

[Heero Yuy]

4 hours ago, Vtec said:

Yeah I don't agree with how salary thing works out there.. My tour guide during part of trip. Said she makes more money doing guides and she's a qualified teacher. 

But they have a better social structure and next to no crime, no obvious racism cos everyone is in the same boat. Oh yeah can't criticise the government openly. 

But that said I agree stagnates various things. But how far to you go to strike a happy medium retaining what I saw as special to that country. And not turn into a sess pit of greed and western style poverty. 

@Heero Yuy

 

By pretty much eliminating social inequality you can definitely achieve a more cohesive structured  society, no doubt, but at what cost? Theres also lots of studies regarding the links of social inequality and crime, so a lack of one can be linked to a lack in the other.

 You’re right though, how far do you go, how much of the beast do you let in etc. Difficult question, but the Nordic model seems to be the best current version of capitalism working for socialism, and in the best interests of the people.