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Winter has arrived 18/19

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15 minutes ago, Thizz said:

What preventative measures do you think would work? 

Increased youth engagement from early/ pre-teen stage. That takes funding, and youth workers an people can turn their nose up at that all they like but it can work. The devil makes work for idle hands, young people need to be occupied and shown paths to success. A lot of them cant see the wood for the trees. Or can't picture themselves outside their current situation. Children are very malleable.

Also counselling, we need that as a country (6 weeks after a 3 month waitin list is a joke) but a lot of poor young people are just going through trauma, whether that be from home or the road 

We need a compassionate approach

We need more funding to social services. Front line staff see so much deprivation an utter unspeakable fuckry from inside the home. An they have NO resources to make any effective impact on the families of these young troubled people. And I dont mean putting them in care (we dont even have the p for that anyway) but there are specialist services, courses, support agencies which could help if we invested in them.

We got real head cases with no support. I strongly believe that there are a minority of highly dysfunctional children (for whatever reasons) who then have an extremely strong influence on children around them who absolutely have more choices in front of them. Then we have a domino effect of fuckry.

All this applies across the country, beyond race etc. And when it comes to the violence in smaller cities an towns, Westminster needs to get its finger out and invest in employment opportunities. Cant have generations of unemployed and expect children to have real ambition.

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1 hour ago, Thizz said:

Do you man think 4 years for carrying a knife is too lenient and increasing it would deter people? 

Theres not enough police to enforce the laws this is the problem 

The austerity cuts have shegged them

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Oh and if we are sendin them to jail, we got "training" jails, with all the equipment and no staff to make it work.

More money, better trained govs. We are now headin into a situation where prisons with already poor reports, have experienced staff leaving, and with new totally green eeeeediot staff being hired. Its a joke

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Once you're asking for the "government" to intervene, it's too late. Tories don't give a shit, these youts don't vote and if they did, they wouldn't vote for them.

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Whether they care or not is irrelevant. I was asked a question and I answered it. What should be done is different to what we can expect to be done. Regardless, the government is absolutely responsible for the welfare of citizens.

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Just now, Grafter said:

Regardless, the government is absolutely responsible for the welfare of citizens.

That's literally the antithesis of the Tory party and one of the main reasons they are the most successful political party in this country.

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i dont buy this rhetoric that the govt dont care 

they definitely do - they have to 

hence why stop and search was brought back , tougher sentences on knife and gun carrying etc etc 

its not like the US where they literally dont give a shit and want more slaves for their prison system 

i agree with more social funding 

but chairty begins at home and we need to look more inward buefore looking outward 

ill say it time and time agin but the negative aspect of the most popular music together with the poor family structure and the general obsesssion with money/ balling out (which is largely attributed to the music) needs to be addressed 

we say the same things over and over again 

"Increased youth engagement from early/ pre-teen stage. That takes funding, and youth workers an people can turn their nose up at that all they like but it can work. The devil makes work for idle hands, young people need to be occupied and shown paths to success. A lot of them cant see the wood for the trees. Or can't picture themselves outside their current situation. Children are very malleable."

He makes a good point with the above 

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37 minutes ago, Drift said:

That's literally the antithesis of the Tory party and one of the main reasons they are the most successful political party in this country.

But yet they are the fucks who have rammed sweeteners down our throats in the interest of public health

/

Certain people sayin the same things over an over again need to realise their fundamental misunderstandings

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Its actually incredibly ignorant to think that everyone has the means, the time an the way an the where with it all to look "inwards".

Fucksake. Lets throw social services in the bin full stop and schools and hospitals. People need to be lookin inwards more 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

60 million people, need to jus damn well figure life out for themselves, no mistakes, no accidents...

Gna leave it there because i cant cope with the circular nature of debate on here

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2 minutes ago, Grafter said:

Its actually incredibly ignorant to think that everyone has the means, the time an the way an the where with it all to look "inwards".

Fucksake. Lets throw social services in the bin full stop and schools and hospitals. People need to be lookin inwards more 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

60 million people, need to jus damn well figure life out for themselves, no mistakes, no accidents...

Gna leave it there because i cant cope with the circular nature of debate on here

do you see this word on my post because i dont 

its all societies fault innit, its the governments fault right, its my neighbours fault etc 

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52 minutes ago, JOHN DOE said:

i dont buy this rhetoric that the govt dont care 

they definitely do - they have to 

hence why stop and search was brought back , tougher sentences on knife and gun carrying etc etc 

its not like the US where they literally dont give a shit and want more slaves for their prison system 

i agree with more social funding 

but chairty begins at home and we need to look more inward buefore looking outward 

ill say it time and time agin but the negative aspect of the most popular music together with the poor family structure and the general obsesssion with money/ balling out (which is largely attributed to the music) needs to be addressed 

we say the same things over and over again 

"Increased youth engagement from early/ pre-teen stage. That takes funding, and youth workers an people can turn their nose up at that all they like but it can work. The devil makes work for idle hands, young people need to be occupied and shown paths to success. A lot of them cant see the wood for the trees. Or can't picture themselves outside their current situation. Children are very malleable."

He makes a good point with the above 

Seee it deh. Very basic advice and it’s only in the black community where people take offence to shit like this! It’s actually mad.

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51 minutes ago, JOHN DOE said:

hence why stop and search was brought back , tougher sentences on knife and gun carrying etc etc 

its not like the US where they literally dont give a shit and want more slaves for their prison system 

Right wing governments need to be seen as "tough on crime" to appease their electorate every time the Daily Mail reports on a LONDON STABBING followed by a picture of some dry yout. Increased stop and search and harsher sentences plays right into that. Same way US Government introduced "mandatory sentencing" for a couple of crack rocks. 

/

38 minutes ago, Grafter said:

But yet they are the fucks who have rammed sweeteners down our throats in the interest of public health

Obesity affects everyone including Tory voters.

If British Sugar PLC come back the bag watch there suddenly be a nationally published study on the dangers of artificial sweeteners.

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6 hours ago, Grafter said:

Its certainly not too lenient

The impact 4 years inside, we know its 2 in reality is extremely significant

More years will not be a deterrent because I dont think these youts are thinking along those lines in the first place. Jail or carryin a knife isnt the choice they face in their personal situations.

We need much more preventative measures

Why are to such a.criminal empathiser 

 

Fuck u need a.knife for 

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14 hours ago, Heero Yuy said:

show me the evidence that it works, that it's a deterrent, and that its directly stopping murders or people getting hurt.

 they keep using this line of  having more powers to stop people, yet fail to show how more powers would've stopped X and Y.

 

 

I think it does work tbh. 

I know your from up north so things might have been different but in london i remember in 07/08 times we had those mad couple of years of teens getting stab up left right and centre then the goverment started implementing stop and search more streniously.

They also had that big ass Tsg meat wagon that used to jump out on man. What we saw was knife crime and gang related murders fell so yeah it can/does work.

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9 hours ago, JOHN DOE said:

do you see this word on my post because i dont 

its all societies fault innit, its the governments fault right, its my neighbours fault etc 

pmsl. This debate goes in circles on here. 

The Apologists gon' Apologise. 

0 Self Accountability is  holding so many of us back 

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22 minutes ago, dayomesaydayo said:

 

I think it does work tbh. 

I know your from up north so things might have been different but in london i remember in 07/08 times we had those mad couple of years of teens getting stab up left right and centre then the goverment started implementing stop and search more streniously.

They also had that big ass Tsg meat wagon that used to jump out on man. What we saw was knife crime and gang related murders fell so yeah it can/does work.

 

Quote

The use of large “surge” stop-and-search operations by the police has no discernible effect in reducing crime, according to newly released Home Office research.

The study looks at the mass use of stop and search by London’s Metropolitan police to tackle knife crime in 2008/09, at a time when officers were carrying out one search every 20 seconds on average nationwide.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/mar/17/mass-stop-and-search-police-crime-study

 

 

 

what I'd say is that back in 08/09 is that there were 20k more police then there are now. If the home office are ready to present new evidence that counters the old evidence then I'm all for ramping up stop and search.

Otherwise na, what you think works and what is proven to work are two different things entirely.

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What narative?

Im open to hearing peoples opinions on why they want it or dont hence the reason why i asked the question but im just saying it does and has worked before.

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Has never worked in any reality.

As Heero said the reduction in crime was due to the extra police.

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Stop and search has to work in tandem with loads of other things. Not by itself. But when certain communities are so defensive, i.e Windrush descended blacks who are stuck in the past, how can any progression happen...

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1 hour ago, Drift said:

Has never worked in any reality.

As Heero said the reduction in crime was due to the extra police.

Yes and what were the extra police doing? 

They were stopping and searching people,creating disperal zones and jumping out on guys in those big tsg vans.

Baring in mind i have witnessed this myself.

 

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5 minutes ago, dayomesaydayo said:

Yes and what were the extra police doing? 

They were stopping and searching people,creating disperal zones and jumping out on guys in those big tsg vans.

Baring in mind i have witnessed this myself.

 

They did all that because they had additional numbers they could afford to do all that extra shit. Not because the order of the day was increased stop and search. If you were to take the current stripped down version of the police now and increase stop and search nothing would change.

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5 hours ago, dayomesaydayo said:

What narative?

Im open to hearing peoples opinions on why they want it or dont hence the reason why i asked the question but im just saying it does and has worked before.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/508661/stop-search-operation-blunt-2.pdf#page=2

A Home Office evaluation in 2016 found "that the greater use of weapons searches was not effective at the borough level for reducing crime.”

Again

You man are gonna Ray Charles the facts because they don't fit the narrative your presenting

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No need to over complicate the ting, stop and search should be used when justifiable and performed professionally. The real controversy surrounding it relates to them getting trigger happy with it. 

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