So, you're going to uni?

[Benicio del Toney]

Wake up folks, we need plumbers, plasterers,electricians, bricklayers, joiners etc, and it's about time we appreciated these trades as good careers. This government has made a great job of devaluing genuine trades in favour of false educational standards

[Younger]

John Galf what your saying is true, But talking about people 60/70 years ago is different from now... The world has become so much more competitive... In each and every scenario its going to be different. I was thinking about not going to uni and just start working so i can build my contacts get experience and so on but after thinking about it, it is true that with a degree you will be better off. My brother did a Computer science course and now hes working in RND for GSK. What he did for his course and what hes doing now is totally different but he always says to me that they will always want some one with a degree. If you was to choose not to go uni and start working, on a short term basis you will be better off but long term you wont be. You have to bare in mind once you have a degree your opening up many more doors in life, especially if your degree will have a years work experience.

[Younger]

This debate can go on and on... My advice would be to do it. But i also understand other peoples points of view when they say its a waste of money. I know people who are earning bare P and they aint gone uni but i know people who are earning P who did go uni.

[John Galt]

it is true that with a degree you will be better off.

Don't be fooled. If we are both applying for the same job and I had a Masters degree in Northerness and you have 3 years practical experience directly related to the role would I be in a better position?Of course not.A degree cannot be used as a blanket term to indicate success. As has been pointed out many times, it depends on the degree and what your future goals are. If I have a degree in Software Engineering and decide that I want to work as a plumber, I have NO CHANCE IN HELL of being chosen over someone who has no degree but experience.

My brother did a Computer science course and now hes working in RND for GSK. What he did for his course and what hes doing now is totally different but he always says to me that they will always want some one with a degree.

Because the roles are relatively similar. Ask him to apply for a role as a fitness instructor and see how helpful his degree is.

If you was to choose not to go uni and start working, on a short term basis you will be better off but long term you wont be. You have to bare in mind once you have a degree your opening up many more doors in life, especially if your degree will have a years work experience.

Again, it depends on what you plan on doing with your life. Unfortunately not many 18 year olds know what they wish to do. If they have a rough idea and know they will need a degree in XYZ for their application, then by all means they should attend university.However, if they haven't got a clue, going to university and studying media and art for the sole purpose of getting "a degree" will not be the most efficient use of their time.

[tuppatopbrer]

Yeh but like now its essential to have a degree... Unless you can get a job as a apprentice...Hopefully after uni ima try and get the Accenture graduate job... Them man take on one person for an interview a month but its bare hard...

Wrong. Very wrong. They dont interview one person a month

Wake up folks, we need plumbers, plasterers,electricians, bricklayers, joiners etc, and it's about time we appreciated these trades as good careers. This government has made a great job of devaluing genuine trades in favour of false educational standards

Wrong again. Think about it, over the past 30/40 years, our economy has transferred from a predominantly secondary economy to a tertiary, or even quintinary economy. These economies need knowledge rather than skills. That doesn't mean the government has made a great job of devaluing the plumbers etc. After all, if they were, why havent they put a price cap or increased the red tape in this skill based jobs...?Oh and I agree with John Galts statement.

[Em Dott]

Don't blame the internet on the lack of advice you received. I find it quite hard to believe that only Football and Music were the career choices of your school...

You think I was allocating all of my reasoning as to my lack of advice to the internet? Get a clue don. I'm saying the younger users are getting advice and experiences from people that they can more relate to. I didn't have that when I was growing up. Not everyone has their life planned out as early as they would like to. And yes, I forgot, I was intrested in IT, however that got cancelled out after enduring 2 years of Computing at A-Level, so I'm back to square one.On a real, people need to stop watching so hard what others are doing. What THEY eat won't make YOU sh*t. Can any of you explain how it directly affects your studies, potential success, or life in general? Really? Because some people are coming across really snobbish.

[Younger]

Tuppatopbrer they interview many people but its likely that only 1 person a month gets to the second stage... Its some sh*t like that.

[Younger]

Oh and John i totally agree with what your saying... Im starting uni this year but im 19 ( year behind ) so i know what my goals are and what field i want to go in but i know if i was to go uni last year i wouldnt have known what to do.

[o-guy]

ermm.... okay... thats been acknowlegedonce againwat is your opinion, im sure u have one.

Universities and (potential) students should remember that they are supposed to be higher education institutions.For example, if you want to learn about Northerness, go and live in Sheffield for a few years. You do not need a degree to learn about being Northern. No more than you need a degree to learn about the media.Media pioneers of 60/70 years ago did to achieve media studies (or comparable) degrees.If you take his word to be true, streets is a perfect example.Going to university for the sole purpose of biding some time is a waste of money. It can be argued that there are some life skills gained, people you meet and networks you create whilst at uni.This is true to some extent. If you want to gain life skills, move out once college/A'Level's are over and try to live on £500 a month.You can meet a diverse range of people if you decide to step out of your comfort zone and consciously choose to interact with people of a similar age group that you would not have considered. All university does is in effect force you to take the step.Networks can be created in almost any situation.It can also be argued that Universities are learning institutions and students can choose the university route as a method of learning. I would counter that by saying choosing what can be considered a "mickey mouse" degree for the sole purpose of learning is not efficient and is a waste of funds, which is what the original post was alluding to.

you sound like someone who has very effectively been socialised. How can you say learning for learning sake is a waste of funds, not everyone pursues a degree so as to obtain a better job, some people do it to better themselves and raise (what they believe to be) their worth as a person, how can you judge this as not being a good enough reason to spend money.Silly me, I thought the purpose of higher education was to further ones pursuit of knowledge as appose to maximising his or her pay check.

[John Galt]

Can any of you explain how it directly affects your studies, potential success, or life in general? Really? Because some people are coming across really snobbish.

I have limited knowledge in how universities obtain funding so the following is purely speculative ...Assume I am in university, studying chemistry, hoping to continue into postgraduate study.- The government injects £10m into 3 universities in their offering of a "Britishness" degree.- The chemistry department of my university is closing after next year as student numbers are low.I now no longer have the option of pursuing my postgraduate studies in Chemistry.Assume I cannot go to a university in another region owing to family commitments/lack of funds.- The job I have my heart set requires a postgraduate degree in Chemistry.- The job is in the region I live.I will now not be considered for this job as I do not have a postgraduate degree.This has been a hypothetical scenario, but very close to the truth for a relatively large amount of people I know or have come across.

[Guest M12]

Don't blame the internet on the lack of advice you received. I find it quite hard to believe that only Football and Music were the career choices of your school...

You think I was allocating all of my reasoning as to my lack of advice to the internet? Get a clue don. I'm saying the younger users are getting advice and experiences from people that they can more relate to. I didn't have that when I was growing up. Not everyone has their life planned out as early as they would like to. And yes, I forgot, I was intrested in IT, however that got cancelled out after enduring 2 years of Computing at A-Level, so I'm back to square one.On a real, people need to stop watching so hard what others are doing. What THEY eat won't make YOU sh*t. Can any of you explain how it directly affects your studies, potential success, or life in general? Really? Because some people are coming across really snobbish.

titan its basic still.taxes fund unis. if they scrapped the waste more money could go on improving the standards in other subject areas. or just on other areas altogether like say a part of the NHS, or somwthing else.its bait all these fool fool courses are a result of the gov't trying to reach their target of x% of children in further education target. The backlash will come soon trust.

[John Galt]

Tuppatopbrer they interview many people but its likely that only 1 person a month gets to the second stage... Its some sh*t like that.

No it's not. Quite a few people get through.

[John Galt]

you sound like someone who has very effectively been socialised. How can you say learning for learning sake is a waste of funds, not everyone pursues a degree so as to obtain a better job, some people do it to better themselves and raise (what they believe to be) their worth as a person, how can you judge this as not being a good enough reason to spend money.Silly me, I thought the purpose of higher education was to further ones pursuit of knowledge as appose to maximising his or her pay check.

Maybe I didn't articulate the point well enough or you totally miss my point.Learning for the sake of learning is not a waste of funds.HOWEVER there are more cost effective methods of learning that simply going to uni.For example, I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine. He knew a girl that went to uni to study "Arabic and Middle Eastern" studies.However, when he got talking to the girl and after reviewing her course content, he found out that most of the things she was being taught was general knowledge that he picked up in his home country.So in this instance, she spent over £10k on getting her degree and learn some things.She could have spent £1000 for a return ticket to stay in (for example) Dubai or Saudi Arabia for 3 years. Got a job there and learnt the same things or similar things whilst enriching her life experience.Saving over £9k.

[Em Dott]

Don't blame the internet on the lack of advice you received. I find it quite hard to believe that only Football and Music were the career choices of your school...

You think I was allocating all of my reasoning as to my lack of advice to the internet? Get a clue don. I'm saying the younger users are getting advice and experiences from people that they can more relate to. I didn't have that when I was growing up. Not everyone has their life planned out as early as they would like to. And yes, I forgot, I was intrested in IT, however that got cancelled out after enduring 2 years of Computing at A-Level, so I'm back to square one.On a real, people need to stop watching so hard what others are doing. What THEY eat won't make YOU sh*t. Can any of you explain how it directly affects your studies, potential success, or life in general? Really? Because some people are coming across really snobbish.

titan its basic still.taxes fund unis. if they scrapped the waste more money could go on improving the standards in other subject areas. or just on other areas altogether like say a part of the NHS, or somwthing else.its bait all these fool fool courses are a result of the gov't trying to reach their target of x% of children in further education target. The backlash will come soon trust.

There are a number of things that could go towards improving courses and also detract from courses. You lot are trying to act like some media graduate is stopping you from achieving a first. Don't be silly. And yeah, the government is trying to get more people in uni, but let the people themeselves do a course. If they believe it was a waste of time, then let them advise other people, and you never know, less people may take up the course.Think because you have a certain course your future is set in stone and you are stupid. You work on what your future will be.

[Younger]

Something like that i would see as a pathetic degree...

[o-guy]

what courses does one take to become a stock broker??

you dn't need a degree to become a stock broker, however it is becoming increasingly common for a stockbroker to have one, these degrees are most often either economics or law, sumtimes both.

Law is not "favoured" upon. Any numerate degree will suffice.

and i really dn't recall typing that law was "favoured upon", but rather that it was becoming increasingly more common as a choice of degree among stock brokers.

[FACE OFF BEYOND]

Pure bollocks.Like everyone taking science, accounting or engineering is gona be successful or wealthy lol

But what if you want to make movies or tv programmes

you dn't need a degree to do these things, and statistically most media students dn't go on to either of these occupations.

what about 3d animation anyway on a real its true but i know a lot of people that have taken uni courses and are doing the "telesales" kinda jobi think a lot of people go uni for different reasons as me and toney told many of you long time ago its a parental fashion statement.not sure why people care though end of the day if YOUR happy with what you do why care bout what a next person is studying and in all honesty media courses are not as YAWN WORTHY as other courses and to be in media fully means more then studying it and doing some hard graft that goes beyond studying in some plush studio.its the same with musicim not going uni for a job im cool and content im going to learn thats just how i feel about it i know too many people that beat up themselves and take pressure from parents and added pressure of views like the ones on these threads that end up loosing the plot.if ya gonna do a "pointless degree" know that ya not gonna be a good life in terms of ya careerif ya do a degree that is more academic and more fulfilling employment wiseJUST KNOW YOU HAVE TO STICK AT IT COS ITS NOT A COME IN AND HOP OUT TING ITS A LONG HAUL TING

[o-guy]

you sound like someone who has very effectively been socialised. How can you say learning for learning sake is a waste of funds, not everyone pursues a degree so as to obtain a better job, some people do it to better themselves and raise (what they believe to be) their worth as a person, how can you judge this as not being a good enough reason to spend money.Silly me, I thought the purpose of higher education was to further ones pursuit of knowledge as appose to maximising his or her pay check.

Maybe I didn't articulate the point well enough or you totally miss my point.Learning for the sake of learning is not a waste of funds.HOWEVER there are more cost effective methods of learning that simply going to uni.For example, I recently had a conversation with a friend of mine. He knew a girl that went to uni to study "Arabic and Middle Eastern" studies.However, when he got talking to the girl and after reviewing her course content, he found out that most of the things she was being taught was general knowledge that he picked up in his home country.So in this instance, she spent over £10k on getting her degree and learn some things.She could have spent £1000 for a return ticket to stay in (for example) Dubai or Saudi Arabia for 3 years. Got a job there and learnt the same things or similar things whilst enriching her life experience.Saving over £9k.

True. However your example can't be applied to âMickey mouseâ subjects, such as sociology. You canât expect to simply begin studying groups of people and learn the same things that they would in a sociology class.Also in the case of your friend, while moving away may have been the best thing to do in the sense of cost, it may not be the most practical thing when taking into account the strain of completely uprooting and leaving her whole life behind (including family and friends).

[Benicio del Toney]

Yeh but like now its essential to have a degree... Unless you can get a job as a apprentice...Hopefully after uni ima try and get the Accenture graduate job... Them man take on one person for an interview a month but its bare hard...

Wrong. Very wrong. They dont interview one person a month

Wake up folks, we need plumbers, plasterers,electricians, bricklayers, joiners etc, and it's about time we appreciated these trades as good careers. This government has made a great job of devaluing genuine trades in favour of false educational standards

Wrong again. Think about it, over the past 30/40 years, our economy has transferred from a predominantly secondary economy to a tertiary, or even quintinary economy. These economies need knowledge rather than skills. That doesn't mean the government has made a great job of devaluing the plumbers etc. After all, if they were, why havent they put a price cap or increased the red tape in this skill based jobs...?Oh and I agree with John Galts statement.

Tuppatop, I can think about many of my friends who went to Uni aimlessly who would have been better suited to a skilled trade.They did so because they didnt hold the trades in high regard.The few that did go into plumbing, building etc... did so because they had family members involved in the trade.The government have made statements such as "In the future your kids will need qualifications", while that isnt openly coming out and devaluing skilled trades it is in a round about way doing so.It isnt strictly true either, as ive said my girlfriend is involved in construction, the companies she has worked for hire sub contractors to undertake the labour work, a LARGE amount of these labourers are immigrants working for cash in hand.Regardless of how many Commercial managers or Quantity surveryoys a construction company has, NO sub contractors = NO building work done.The amount of jobs which get delayed because of the lack of labourers, or problems communicating with foreign labourers is a joke, Wembley Stadium is a prime example of a job that missed its deadline by WAY OFF.These skills are still desperately needed.

[John Galt]

True. However your example can't be applied to âMickey mouseâ subjects, such as sociology. You canât expect to simply begin studying groups of people and learn the same things that they would in a sociology class.Also in the case of your friend, while moving away may have been the best thing to do in the sense of cost, it may not be the most practical thing when taking into account the strain of completely uprooting and leaving her whole life behind (including family and friends).

I purposely did not offer a definition for what a "Mickey mouse" subject is, as it is relatively subjective. Depending on the purpose of study, I would not say sociology was a mickey mouse subject.Leaving her whole life behind?3 years is not that long. The geographic and cultural distance may make it seem like a big thing to do, but it's not impossible.I know guys that have not set foot in London or even England since attending uni in Scotland.Also, air flight is relatively cheap these days.

[Carpe_Deum]

the govt didnt devalue skills trades imo, people did. people still do. the govt maybe hasnt encouraged skills but cant see how its devalued it. arent there colleges offering all these skills? whats stopped anyone from going on the courses. pple always lump everything on 'the govt' thats why they cant think for themselves.

[o-guy]

True. However your example can't be applied to âMickey mouseâ subjects, such as sociology. You canât expect to simply begin studying groups of people and learn the same things that they would in a sociology class.Also in the case of your friend, while moving away may have been the best thing to do in the sense of cost, it may not be the most practical thing when taking into account the strain of completely uprooting and leaving her whole life behind (including family and friends).

I purposely did not offer a definition for what a "Mickey mouse" subject is, as it is relatively subjective. Depending on the purpose of study, I would not say sociology was a mickey mouse subject.Leaving her whole life behind?3 years is not that long. The geographic and cultural distance may make it seem like a big thing to do, but it's not impossible.I know guys that have not set foot in London or even England since attending uni in Scotland.Also, air flight is relatively cheap these days.

Even though its not impossible it is still difficult to do, at least in comparison to taking up a course at a near by uni.Possible those not equal practical

[Benicio del Toney]

the govt didnt devalue skills trades imo, people did. people still do. the govt maybe hasnt encouraged skills but cant see how its devalued it.

To not promote onething but to encourage something else is to be neglectful, to continue this is to devalue it.In anycase the majority of people (especially poorly educated) form their opinion based on what they are told.If they are told that their children will need qualifications thats what they will inturn tell their kids.This is how you get so many people doing Media studies in the 1st place, because their parents urge the importance of a higher education and children end up going to Uni not knowing what they really want to do but going anyway to please parents.

[tuppatopbrer]

what courses does one take to become a stock broker??

you dn't need a degree to become a stock broker, however it is becoming increasingly common for a stockbroker to have one, these degrees are most often either economics or law, sumtimes both.

Law is not "favoured" upon. Any numerate degree will suffice.

and i really dn't recall typing that law was "favoured upon", but rather that it was becoming increasingly more common as a choice of degree among stock brokers.

Nope. If your trying to talk about people who work in the M&A Compliance department of Investment Banks then you may be on to something. You hardly get Lawyer brokers or traders.

[Carpe_Deum]

the govt didnt devalue skills trades imo, people did. people still do. the govt maybe hasnt encouraged skills but cant see how its devalued it.

To not promote onething but to encourage something else is to be neglectful, to continue this is to devalue it.In anycase the majority of people (especially poorly educated) form their opinion based on what they are told.If they are told that their children will need qualifications thats what they will inturn tell their kids.This is how you get so many people doing Media studies in the 1st place, because their parents urge the importance of a higher education and children end up going to Uni not knowing what they really want to do but going anyway to please parents.

so its something that shouldve occured B4 going to uni then.. career counsellors and all that. in todays global economy higher education IS important, england being where it is, and the fact that british born and resident graduates also have about 1billion other graduates across the world also able to compete in your own country for a job, only england and the US are in this situation so its quite needed. vocational skills are needed but are not the backbone of the british economy, the financial sector and subsectors that come along with it like telecomms and IT are.