Is Grime the UK's Hip Hop???

[TF/S4DK]

I'd disagree. Apart from a couple UK road slangs & sayings, what part of the culture is exclusive to grime?

[FANTA]

Grime is NOT Hip HopJust because there's somebody spitting over a beat doesnt make it hip hop

As if you wouldnt think Top 3 selected was HipHop if you heard a US artist spit over it first

How do you know?Its about how you approach the track not who it is spitting on itGrime is NOT Hip Hop, especially not UK Hip Hop - thats a completely different sound to even the Hip Hop copming from the USYour an idiot if you think otherwise

Your an idiot if you don't agree with your opinion??Ok.. so if Grime is NOT Hip Hop.. What are the differences... What actually is it that differenciates HipHop from UK HipHop and Grime??Is Slick Rick UK HipHop??

LOL you havnt got a clue

Innit.He's just going around circles.Grime is Grime.Hip-Hop is Hip-Hop leave it at that.

[Afroman]

Uk hiphop doesnt exist anymore. I never really thought it did anywaygrime as losts its birth sound, Its adopted the hiphop soundAlot of grime songs will pass as hiphop these days, So if u want to give HH a definiton for these sides of the shores, then the new grime sound can be classed as UKHH..

[scared of who?]

Original grime was more the UK equivalent of Bashment.The current sh*t, is a poor recreation of Hip Hop! Grime only exists through blogs and a mixtape every now and then. It even sounds like Hip Hop these days.

[TF/S4DK]

Like someone said there should be no such thing as UK hip hop, just hip hop made by people from the UK.The "UK hip hop scene" is a niche, made by people who know they could never contest with the bigger picture. I dunno why they just didnt call it backpacker rap in the first place...

[Skola]

SuperGeeI attempted a big long winded explanation coz ive had this exact conversation before with a hiphop head who raised the same points u haveproblem is, im hungoveri literally spent like 5 mins staring out the widnow looking for a word i couldnt think of*shakes head and abandons explanation attempt*

[Fearless-Guy]

look at early grime instrumentals which to me is what grime really is. they are dance (garage) tunes not hip hop.maybe more recently artisits have been beggin the hip hop scene

[Ephren Taylor]

Grime is NOT Hip HopJust because there's somebody spitting over a beat doesnt make it hip hop

As if you wouldnt think Top 3 selected was HipHop if you heard a US artist spit over it first

How do you know?Its about how you approach the track not who it is spitting on itGrime is NOT Hip Hop, especially not UK Hip Hop - thats a completely different sound to even the Hip Hop copming from the USYour an idiot if you think otherwise

Your an idiot if you don't agree with your opinion??Ok.. so if Grime is NOT Hip Hop.. What are the differences... What actually is it that differenciates HipHop from UK HipHop and Grime??Is Slick Rick UK HipHop??

LOL you havnt got a clue

Innit.He's just going around circles.Grime is Grime.Hip-Hop is Hip-Hop leave it at that.

Again... how does that contribute to the disussion..You sound like you know it all, stating that grime is grime and hiphop is hiphop..List the differences between the 2??This discussion started because of the bait similarities...You cannot tell me that they are sooooooo different, that they warrant seperate genres can you??

[Jubez Fresco]

Seriously people arguing that it's not a type of Hip Hop are deluded.

[Jubez Fresco]

Actually I'm gonna post a couple of instrumentals and ask people to differentiate.

[Numero001]

these days grime has a structure more like hip hop, but der are differences, but dunno how long they will last.IMO grime started from garage, and was nuffin like hip hop at all, then slowly it moved more and more towards hip hop, now its like sum hybrid between the two sumwer (more near the hip hop side). I dunno when it will be purely classed as a form of hip hop by everyone, some even say it is now, but there will always be a bit of a debate cos its root lie in garage...as for whether it is uk hip hop, its not so clear cos der is already an established uk hip hop scene and both scenes try differentiate between each other, but the lines are gettin thinner and thinner wid more collabs and the change of style, etc...IMO if it isnt alredy, grime will be uk hip hop one day.

In what sense is it structured like Hip Hop? I dont really watch the grime scene that much but from what I know there is a strong if not stronger influence of Dancehall stucture. The performance side of it in places like Eskimo where they deliver punchlines in oreder to get a "forward" (Jamaican terminology). Bare man chatting over the same beat or "riddim" (once again Jamaican terminology).Those things arent common in modern Hip Hop and they were doing it Dancehall before Hip Hop so even if you said things like ciphers, remember how Hip Hop was birthed and remember where Kool Herc came from and what he was trying to do. Plus, when were ciphers ever performed to people or if they were when were they a strong point of the performance side? The best you got was them dudes that used to do what was known in Jamaica as "toasting". The "throw your hands in the air" type stuff, which is now done by someone known as a selecter in JamaicaNow ask yourself, are you more likely to see this in Grime or Hip Hop?

[spiderman]

these days grime has a structure more like hip hop, but der are differences, but dunno how long they will last.IMO grime started from garage, and was nuffin like hip hop at all, then slowly it moved more and more towards hip hop, now its like sum hybrid between the two sumwer (more near the hip hop side). I dunno when it will be purely classed as a form of hip hop by everyone, some even say it is now, but there will always be a bit of a debate cos its root lie in garage...as for whether it is uk hip hop, its not so clear cos der is already an established uk hip hop scene and both scenes try differentiate between each other, but the lines are gettin thinner and thinner wid more collabs and the change of style, etc...IMO if it isnt alredy, grime will be uk hip hop one day.

In what sense is it structured like Hip Hop? I dont really watch the grime scene that much but from what I know there is a strong if not stronger influence of Dancehall stucture. The performance side of it in places like Eskimo where they deliver punchlines in oreder to get a "forward" (Jamaican terminology). Bare man chatting over the same beat or "riddim" (once again Jamaican terminology).Those things arent common in modern Hip Hop and they were doing it Dancehall before Hip Hop so even if you said things like ciphers, remember how Hip Hop was birthed and remember where Kool Herc came from and what he was trying to do. Plus, when were ciphers ever performed to people or if they were when were they a strong point of the performance side? The best you got was them dudes that used to do what was known in Jamaica as "toasting". The "throw your hands in the air" type stuff, which is now done by someone known as a selecter in JamaicaNow ask yourself, are you more likely to see this in Grime or Hip Hop?

this whole mixtape fad for 1. i cant think of others off the top of my head, and i cant really be bothered to argue..ye its true they have dancehall influences, but that aint as strong as it was now a days. der aint nearly as many raves for one.

[Numero001]

these days grime has a structure more like hip hop, but der are differences, but dunno how long they will last.IMO grime started from garage, and was nuffin like hip hop at all, then slowly it moved more and more towards hip hop, now its like sum hybrid between the two sumwer (more near the hip hop side). I dunno when it will be purely classed as a form of hip hop by everyone, some even say it is now, but there will always be a bit of a debate cos its root lie in garage...as for whether it is uk hip hop, its not so clear cos der is already an established uk hip hop scene and both scenes try differentiate between each other, but the lines are gettin thinner and thinner wid more collabs and the change of style, etc...IMO if it isnt alredy, grime will be uk hip hop one day.

In what sense is it structured like Hip Hop? I dont really watch the grime scene that much but from what I know there is a strong if not stronger influence of Dancehall stucture. The performance side of it in places like Eskimo where they deliver punchlines in oreder to get a "forward" (Jamaican terminology). Bare man chatting over the same beat or "riddim" (once again Jamaican terminology).Those things arent common in modern Hip Hop and they were doing it Dancehall before Hip Hop so even if you said things like ciphers, remember how Hip Hop was birthed and remember where Kool Herc came from and what he was trying to do. Plus, when were ciphers ever performed to people or if they were when were they a strong point of the performance side? The best you got was them dudes that used to do what was known in Jamaica as "toasting". The "throw your hands in the air" type stuff, which is now done by someone known as a selecter in JamaicaNow ask yourself, are you more likely to see this in Grime or Hip Hop?

this whole mixtape fad for 1. i cant think of others off the top of my head, and i cant really be bothered to argue..ye its true they have dancehall influences, but that aint as strong as it was now a days. der aint nearly as many raves for one.

Glad you said that 'cause mixtapes was the only similarity I could think of, which is just a form of moving with the times but to me the stronger influence is Dancehall. Same as garage apart from house obviously, but the MC'ing side was Dancehall and Jungle before that but people associate spitting over a beat with Hip Hop 'cause its more in your face.I dont know what Grime is really, Grime is Grime until I find a reason for it to be anything. I mean these genres are just what labels use to help with direction of marketing and to sell to customers that are interested in like genres. Some people cross-genres and then people dont know what to call it so make up a name like Grindie and things like that.Sub-genre's are confusing to customers so they try to eliminate that and branch it all under the bannerAnd the reason why you cant be bothered to argue could be 'cause you cant think of anything innit? lol

[Fly Boy]

BoomFirst man used to host the house and garageIt was DJ driven.Then couple guys used to spit some sh*t bars certain time but most of the time it was just essentially hostingCouple man elevated so solid pay as you go heartless basic catchy bars the mc's started getting forwards in the danceThen Megaman went on top of the pops and screamed "roll by in a blacked out TT, Megaman carry 2 gats easy"*pushes up gunfinger*Everything was blessBare gyal in the raveHeartless kept everyone dancinThen Wiley decided to invent the one line flowEveryman and his dog heard this and decided to start "writing" bars since anyone with a mental age of 4+ can create a one line flowDJ's stopped mixing and started spitting because it required less skill and didnt require them spending money on expensive equipment.This is when the grime scene was bornThe DJ's were no longer the focus.Broke, talentless predominantly young black males crowded into pirate radio stations all over the capital telling ficticious tales regarding "street life" through their eyes. 95% of the grime MC's would have you think that London was San Andreas since everyone claimed to be bussing the shotty/mack10/oozie/big fourty five.These broke talentless guys would all go to the grime raves in the hope of getting to spit an 8 bar next to their favourite mcs.Girls dont like no ambition having fake bad boys so they stopped coming to the raves which meant it was just man and man in the raveNo one danced in the rave. Everyone would just stare at the stage like zombies.Grime and hip hop aint alike.

[Fly Boy]

The mixtape ting was where grime f*cked up still.

[spiderman]

Glad you said that 'cause mixtapes was the only similarity I could think of, which is just a form of moving with the times but to me the stronger influence is Dancehall. Same as garage apart from house obviously, but the MC'ing side was Dancehall and Jungle before that but people associate spitting over a beat with Hip Hop 'cause its more in your face.I dont know what Grime is really, Grime is Grime until I find a reason for it to be anything. I mean these genres are just what labels use to help with direction of marketing and to sell to customers that are interested in like genres. Some people cross-genres and then people dont know what to call it so make up a name like Grindie and things like that.Sub-genre's are confusing to customers so they try to eliminate that and branch it all under the bannerAnd the reason why you cant be bothered to argue could be 'cause you cant think of anything innit? lol

lol nah i just couldnt be bothered to put in the energy for a full blown argument over sumin so petty, grime music doesnt deserve that sorta passion from me lol. one other thing i can think of to add to that list is the HEAVY lyrical banter/less hype lyric orientation of grime. dancehall, jungle, dnb and garage all have mc's who write hype/rave bars and it works for the genre, cos the main thing it does is enchance the FLOW of the music. its not about stories....whereas grime (like hip hop) has all this emphasis on "deep bars" and meaningful lyrics....its kinda funny tho, that every year u hear nuff mc's say "ahr levels have gone up etc" but if u look back to wen accodring to them "levels" were low in terms of content, certain artists were makin ALOT more progression then now. look at dizzy, his bars basically symbolize the early days of grime wen it was bout hype/rave lyrics, and he got A LOT further than any of these man screamin bout they got levels up lol.

[Joel C]

look at early grime instrumentals which to me is what grime really is. they are dance (garage) tunes not hip hop.maybe more recently artisits have been beggin the hip hop scene

Innit, this is what he aint gettingGrime is/started off as dance/club music

[Ephren Taylor]

look at early grime instrumentals which to me is what grime really is. they are dance (garage) tunes not hip hop.maybe more recently artisits have been beggin the hip hop scene

Innit, this is what he aint gettingGrime is/started off as dance/club music

It doesnt mater where it originated from...The question relates to how 'grime' fits in the global scheme of things TODAY!!I would argue that 'Grime' IS the UK's version of HipHop...I fail to see exactly what it is that seperates 'Grime' from HipHop.. Is it an identity thing? Do you soooo badly want something to originate from the UK that you'll fool yourself into believing that you cant compare it to something thats been around for 20+ years???

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

Hip hop powered a movement, a culture, gave people a voice and spawned a new chart topping genre. Grime is linked to a few raves getting locked off and the biggest artists from the scene normally move away from it once they blow. All that coming from a grime man from early. Suppose grime does represent UK street culture and theres talent in the scene but really and trully nothing goods come from it except a few dvds!!!.

[Removal Man]

Supergeee you're some donut

[Ephren Taylor]

Supergeee you're some donut

You d*ckhead..How am I a doughnut for asking for people opinions on something..Jog on if you have no intelligent input..

[shaian]

NO its not

[Carpe_Deum]

it probably is, as its the music of 'the streets', just poorly done, and they are mostly telling other people's story not theirs.

[Removal Man]

Supergeee you're some donut

You d*ckhead..How am I a doughnut for asking for people opinions on something..Jog on if you have no intelligent input..

was too tired tp comment earlierbasically, yes, Grime's the Uk's Hip Hop, who calls it UK Grime tho? i've never heard thatit is what it is, and it aint hip hop, its derived from the fast moving and ever developing dance culture that the UK has to offer, does Hip Hop do that? no, hence it not being called Hip Hopdo you know the difference between Punk and Prog Rock is? does it matter? i mean its all guitars right? no

[bane]

Its not the same.Grime has the gritty raw street feeling that hiphop in the us use have. I dont see why Kano changed to hiphop when he was signed for tunes like ghetto kyote and ps and qs not brown eyes or dat sh*t he did with craig david.Grime is whats musics about, the mcs are hungry for it.Its hard to explain doe..Theres grime in america, france, norway etc. so it aint just a uk thing...Grime in the UK has a sort of culture, Hiphop in the UK is just classed as begging the USAI dont understand people who say grime is dead either when there is 10+ albums coming out, 30+mixtapes, Logan has a legal show on kiss, Westwood has a grime guest nearly everyweek, people all over the world book grime mcs i could go on, theres a new big grime forum, grime videos are getting played on base. Only thing it needs is raves.