Rafa - Me >>>>>>> Wenger on youth signings

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

one thing benitez can't take credit for is bringing youngster tru. Sure liverpool were regularly winning u17 leagues and cups but bar Hobbs who's even got near the 1st team. Palletta, leto are 2 examples of f*cked up wastes of money. Wenger you've got to give it to cause his track records good with young player from anelka to toure to fabregas.But the new breed might f*ck him up cause if the likes of Senderos, Djourou, Fabianski, Song, Diaby, Denilson Walcott, Vela and Bendtner (thats about 15 million of player there ya know!) don't become quality with the amount of time and money into them then it will have been a waste of time and money.

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

Im not tryna fish swear down. I dont think Ryan understands what Im saying.TF does but he doesnt understand that I could have replaced Kolos name with Henry's and it would be the same thing it was just a hypothetical situation.Again, I never said wenger was sh*t, arsenal are sh*t, his signings are sh*t. Just overrated.The time its taken to blood those players, in that time, it has cost you wins imo

[TF S4DK]

Wenger blooded individual youngsters and won trophies.We bought a stadium...Wenger blooded nearly a squad of youngsters & hasn't yet won trophies but has managed to stay in touching distance or ahead of teams spending 30-70m a season.So much so you have clubs now wanting to achieve "success" the Arsenal/Wenger way, so to call him over-rated is either a bit of a fish or your pretty stupid/ignorant, IMO.

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

Nah its just that if I was a board member I would be asking where the returns for my money are.Of course theres potential, but what have they actually acheived.imo Wenger was better when he wasnt using yutes. Dont quote me but if I remember correctly the unbeaten squad wasnt as young as the current one?? (I might be wrong)But do you see the point im making??

[Trim]

one thing benitez can't take credit for is bringing youngster tru. Sure liverpool were regularly winning u17 leagues and cups but bar Hobbs who's even got near the 1st team. Palletta, leto are 2 examples of f*cked up wastes of money. Wenger you've got to give it to cause his track records good with young player from anelka to toure to fabregas.But the new breed might f*ck him up cause if the likes of Senderos, Djourou, Fabianski, Song, Diaby, Denilson Walcott, Vela and Bendtner (thats about 15 million of player there ya know!) don't become quality with the amount of time and money into them then it will have been a waste of time and money.

Serious question init and im waiting 4 a serious answer, how much do you know about leto right now ? what is his current situation ? how much do you know about him to be considering him a waste of money because this sh*t makes me laugh. AND What do you know about the reason Paletta was allowed to leave ? serious answers init im not even tryin 2 cuss u for your opinion or anything because i just think its all good and well having your opinion on certain players but i just want to see how much you know about the two you have mentioned and their respective success. Wenger has been sick when it comes to youngsters, i do think he is overrated with them at times but you have to give him credit for the successful ones. This rafa thing has been misinterpreted, he was asked a question about the youth setup at liverpool and it was mentioned how well they have been doing in recent seasons and how bright the future looks for them and all he did was say we have some very talented youngsters that we got for little money in some excellent deals. He respects Arsene Wenger ALOT, so many people dont realise this, he has alot of respect for Wengers transfer policy and he has admitted this many times, all he was saying is that you cant really compare us to arsenal in terms of youth, we get our players in different kinds of ways really. He was using it as a way to show how well we have acquired some young players in good deals. we have young players near the first team so its pointless to act like none of them are anywhere near, insua has played the last few games, plessis played a few this year and there are a few others that have come close e.g. nemeth. some of our youngsters are only like 17 and like most teams we dont tend to put them in the first team at this age.

[HangTheDJ]

So Rafas decline continues...

[TF S4DK]

Nah its just that if I was a board member I would be asking where the returns for my money are.Of course theres potential, but what have they actually acheived.imo Wenger was better when he wasnt using yutes. Dont quote me but if I remember correctly the unbeaten squad wasnt as young as the current one?? (I might be wrong)But do you see the point im making??

How can the board question Wenger when they are part of the "problem"?!The board along with Wenger all agreed, new stadium was the way forward, they knew the finanical constraints, they didnt know Roman & the foreign takeovers was round the corner, but they knew the financial situation teh stadium would leave. The only person who vocally opposed was David Dein...At the moment they are the nearly men.He has no choice but to use youth.The club have made a decision that they will only go into debt for a "asset" i.e the stadium, unlike many other teams they arent placing debt on the club for transfers...

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

one thing benitez can't take credit for is bringing youngster tru. Sure liverpool were regularly winning u17 leagues and cups but bar Hobbs who's even got near the 1st team. Palletta, leto are 2 examples of f*cked up wastes of money. Wenger you've got to give it to cause his track records good with young player from anelka to toure to fabregas.But the new breed might f*ck him up cause if the likes of Senderos, Djourou, Fabianski, Song, Diaby, Denilson Walcott, Vela and Bendtner (thats about 15 million of player there ya know!) don't become quality with the amount of time and money into them then it will have been a waste of time and money.

Serious question init and im waiting 4 a serious answer, how much do you know about leto right now ? what is his current situation ? how much do you know about him to be considering him a waste of money because this sh*t makes me laugh. AND What do you know about the reason Paletta was allowed to leave ? serious answers init im not even tryin 2 cuss u for your opinion or anything because i just think its all good and well having your opinion on certain players but i just want to see how much you know about the two you have mentioned and their respective success. Wenger has been sick when it comes to youngsters, i do think he is overrated with them at times but you have to give him credit for the successful ones. This rafa thing has been misinterpreted, he was asked a question about the youth setup at liverpool and it was mentioned how well they have been doing in recent seasons and how bright the future looks for them and all he did was say we have some very talented youngsters that we got for little money in some excellent deals. He respects Arsene Wenger ALOT, so many people dont realise this, he has alot of respect for Wengers transfer policy and he has admitted this many times, all he was saying is that you cant really compare us to arsenal in terms of youth, we get our players in different kinds of ways really. He was using it as a way to show how well we have acquired some young players in good deals. we have young players near the first team so its pointless to act like none of them are anywhere near, insua has played the last few games, plessis played a few this year and there are a few others that have come close e.g. nemeth. some of our youngsters are only like 17 and like most teams we dont tend to put them in the first team at this age.

okay i'll be honest i don't watch liverpool players too tuff especially the youngsters so for all i know leto could be smashing it in the reserves and be top scorer. but how old is he? 19/20? and has done next to nothing in a liverpool shirt. Bennayoun, Babel and even Riise are ahead of him in the pecking order for left wing so its gonna be hard for him to get a chance. My prediction sold in the summer but i could be wrong. Also didn't leto coat about 2 million? hardly small change and probably less than a plyer like Vela who will be playing for arsenals first team next year.However i will say this Benitez has a track record of buying players and discarding them after a season/2 seasons without giving them a proper chance. name me 3 youth team/reserve players that benitez has been patient with and blooded through in his 3 years (katt williams) i'll wait (katt willims). Can you see Leto being given 2 years to stake a claim? Couldn't tell you why palletta was allowed to leave - but fact is he didn't do anything of note in a pool shirt so he can be considered a failure. He also cost around 2 million didn't he? hardly peanuts.Benitez claims he hasn't got the means to spend big on youngsters! - he has and 2 of them Leto and Palletta haven't shown anything. Lucas looks okay but costs more than Fabregas, denilson and maybe merida put together. secondly he drew for wenger by namedropping him, could be a misquote but he must have said wenger somewhere!.Plesis has made a couple of appearances as has that inua cat but i'm brave enough to say that with lucas, mascherano, alonso and barry linked plesis will have a battle on his hands.

[ONELOVE]

SMH

[Lenny]

Nah its just that if I was a board member I would be asking where the returns for my money are.Of course theres potential, but what have they actually acheived.imo Wenger was better when he wasnt using yutes. Dont quote me but if I remember correctly the unbeaten squad wasnt as young as the current one?? (I might be wrong)But do you see the point im making??

How can the board question Wenger when they are part of the "problem"?!The board along with Wenger all agreed, new stadium was the way forward, they knew the finanical constraints, they didnt know Roman & the foreign takeovers was round the corner, but they knew the financial situation teh stadium would leave. The only person who vocally opposed was David Dein...At the moment they are the nearly men.He has no choice but to use youth.The club have made a decision that they will only go into debt for a "asset" i.e the stadium, unlike many other teams they arent placing debt on the club for transfers...

C/S to the fullest, basically what i was coming in here to say.

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

ok fair play then i retract my statement

[Trim]

one thing benitez can't take credit for is bringing youngster tru. Sure liverpool were regularly winning u17 leagues and cups but bar Hobbs who's even got near the 1st team. Palletta, leto are 2 examples of f*cked up wastes of money. Wenger you've got to give it to cause his track records good with young player from anelka to toure to fabregas.But the new breed might f*ck him up cause if the likes of Senderos, Djourou, Fabianski, Song, Diaby, Denilson Walcott, Vela and Bendtner (thats about 15 million of player there ya know!) don't become quality with the amount of time and money into them then it will have been a waste of time and money.

Serious question init and im waiting 4 a serious answer, how much do you know about leto right now ? what is his current situation ? how much do you know about him to be considering him a waste of money because this sh*t makes me laugh. AND What do you know about the reason Paletta was allowed to leave ? serious answers init im not even tryin 2 cuss u for your opinion or anything because i just think its all good and well having your opinion on certain players but i just want to see how much you know about the two you have mentioned and their respective success. Wenger has been sick when it comes to youngsters, i do think he is overrated with them at times but you have to give him credit for the successful ones. This rafa thing has been misinterpreted, he was asked a question about the youth setup at liverpool and it was mentioned how well they have been doing in recent seasons and how bright the future looks for them and all he did was say we have some very talented youngsters that we got for little money in some excellent deals. He respects Arsene Wenger ALOT, so many people dont realise this, he has alot of respect for Wengers transfer policy and he has admitted this many times, all he was saying is that you cant really compare us to arsenal in terms of youth, we get our players in different kinds of ways really. He was using it as a way to show how well we have acquired some young players in good deals. we have young players near the first team so its pointless to act like none of them are anywhere near, insua has played the last few games, plessis played a few this year and there are a few others that have come close e.g. nemeth. some of our youngsters are only like 17 and like most teams we dont tend to put them in the first team at this age.

okay i'll be honest i don't watch liverpool players too tuff especially the youngsters so for all i know leto could be smashing it in the reserves and be top scorer. but how old is he? 19/20? and has done next to nothing in a liverpool shirt. Bennayoun, Babel and even Riise are ahead of him in the pecking order for left wing so its gonna be hard for him to get a chance. My prediction sold in the summer but i could be wrong. Also didn't leto coat about 2 million? hardly small change and probably less than a plyer like Vela who will be playing for arsenals first team next year.However i will say this Benitez has a track record of buying players and discarding them after a season/2 seasons without giving them a proper chance. name me 3 youth team/reserve players that benitez has been patient with and blooded through in his 3 years (katt williams) i'll wait (katt willims). Can you see Leto being given 2 years to stake a claim? Couldn't tell you why palletta was allowed to leave - but fact is he didn't do anything of note in a pool shirt so he can be considered a failure. He also cost around 2 million didn't he? hardly peanuts.Benitez claims he hasn't got the means to spend big on youngsters! - he has and 2 of them Leto and Palletta haven't shown anything. Lucas looks okay but costs more than Fabregas, denilson and maybe merida put together. secondly he drew for wenger by namedropping him, could be a misquote but he must have said wenger somewhere!.Plesis has made a couple of appearances as has that inua cat but i'm brave enough to say that with lucas, mascherano, alonso and barry linked plesis will have a battle on his hands.

cool i didnt think so. aint even trying to turn this into an argument or anything butLeto for starters, do some research and you will see why he is not playing currently and hasnt been for a large portion of the season, not even for the reserves. Insua, our most promising youngster bar Plessis and Nemeth, got him on an 18 month loan deal... tied him up to a permanent deal. How ? gave them palletta a player we didnt feel was a good enough CB and got someone twice as good for a position we need a good player in. look at the lucas situation and compare it to the fabregas one, Lucas bought him when he was (and still is) Brazil U21 captain. He was Gremios best player by a long way and was 20 years of age. As for Fabregas you got him by taking him from barca when he was stil VERY young, you cant compare getting a first teamer from one side who is the top player on their books to a youth team player who was something like 16 when you got him and what you had to pay was pretty much just a compensation cost. I know about all this youth team stuff and the youth systems of spain which is how you got fabregas, at the age you took him barca were powerless. This is the exact thing some people want banned, if an english club comes in for a youth player from spain the spanish side can do nothing to stop him going really as they arent contracted. Why do you think the spanish clubs go so nuts when they lose thier youngsters and get petty money for them then end up wanting to buy them back. Even we have done it so im not just judging arsenal or anything but this is why fabregas' purchase cant really be compared to that of any other player unless it was a similar situation. full credit to wenger for helping him develop into such a top player, as i've said he is the top guy when it comes to youth players but all rafa has said is that he is happy we have got some players that look to have extremely bright futures ahead of them for a good price, and all he does is compliment wenger when it comes to youth players. I can see how this has been misenterpreted but our youth system is sick and has been over the last few seasons no overlooking that. Its not at arsenals level in terms of players breaking into the first team but in all honesty who's is plus rafa has never claimed that it is at their level. He used arsenal as an example of how cheap he got the most promising reserve players he wasnt trying to insult wenger lol i dont know why it has been made to look like he said wenger dont know about youth signings or something.

[Snoop]

Rafa is just jealous of Arsene Wenger , i mean how can he use the word economical?When his interested in a player the process is nowhere near economical, it's more "uneasy" or "akward"". Rafa is a total PLONKER!!

[Guest Robin_Van_PersG]

Okay trimbal fair enough, obviously you know your sh*t. but that still says to me paletta was a waste of time and money, Insua - time will tell and it will be interesting to see if Carragher will still be filling in at right back in 3 years time or whether insua will be blooded into the team. Leto i didn't know about and Lucas wasn't much of a find then if he was brazil under 21 captain. Those examples show benitez hasn't got much stripes in developing young players.Arsenal may have got fabregas by dodgy means and i don't rate the tactic of plucking other academies good youngsters but the point is that fabregas was pin pointed, scouted and then given a chance to be blooded into the team. FFS this guy replaced Vieira!!I haven't rated benitez at liverpool but he will always have my respect for what he managed at valencia.

[Trim]

Okay trimbal fair enough, obviously you know your sh*t. but that still says to me paletta was a waste of time and money, Insua - time will tell and it will be interesting to see if Carragher will still be filling in at right back in 3 years time or whether insua will be blooded into the team. Leto i didn't know about and Lucas wasn't much of a find then if he was brazil under 21 captain. Those examples show benitez hasn't got much stripes in developing young players.Arsenal may have got fabregas by dodgy means and i don't rate the tactic of plucking other academies good youngsters but the point is that fabregas was pin pointed, scouted and then given a chance to be blooded into the team. FFS this guy replaced Vieira!!I haven't rated benitez at liverpool but he will always have my respect for what he managed at valencia.

Nah what your saying is fair im not saying your wrong or anything. Palletta yeah i thought he was a waste of money aswell but it was smart to use him to secure a much better player. Insua is a LB btw, he will be ready soon trust, he's a good player. Leto is just the whole passport issues thing i think had that not been in the way he would have played a few games LM this season with kewell out for so much time. Lucas nah i dont think that was some amazing find it was just good that we didnt hesitate which is what stops alot of young talent coming to the prem. Rafa is good at developing young players but the ones he currently has are in different situations, i can admit some havent turned out so well but i do think he hasnt had any more 'failures' in terms of youth players than any other manager. Our reserve team has some sick talent and plays great football, it is largely made up from players that rafa signed. There are quite a few out on loan at the moment aswell e.g. Hammill, Anderson, Hobbs. I think the main difference between rafa and wenger with youth is the way they put them into the first team, rafa is more reluctant to do it compared to wenger. Players like pacheco, nemeth, bruna, insua all have the potential to go very far as do some other players like el zhar plessis and the ones that are out on loan. I dont think he is as good as wenger with youth no-one i know of is but he is good, he isnt insulting wenger just comparing money spent on some of the more promising young players both sides have signed. Our reserve players show alot more than they get credit for at times, they won their league, went abroad won their tournament, then beat villa who won the other reserve league. Plessis has shown how good some of our younger players are. His debut, he was sick, imagine the pressure of coming into your first senior game and getting told the man your marking is cesc fabregas, he played extremely well though and didnt look out of depth. I think alot of our youngsters can be successful some more than others but rafa has developed a good youth set up and is biding his time before putting them into the team on a more regular basis. Its not common to see a manager use players as young as wenger does in the first team, alot of our players are still young but managing to get a few games in and are doing well in them.I dont think anyone has as good a talent as arsene wenger when it comes to youth development butttt there are other managers who are good at developing youth players.

[darkman]

Wenger has had money to spend

[TF S4DK]

Since say '04, maybe even '03, Wenger been spending the money he generated via sales, he aint got to touch even the club revenue.Where as other clubs been getting finances from investments, loans & revenue.

[darkman]

Wenger has had money to spend

[TF S4DK]

Your stating the obvious.

[darkman]

My point is buying youth is his choice

[TF S4DK]

Not really but ok.

[Lenny]

He invests in youth more so now than before due to our financial position.

[Uncle Larry]

lmfao @ this fat c*nt