ITV Leaders Debate: April 2nd - 8pm to 10pm

[Gambino]

you can make studies say whatever you want them to, are you saying there are none that say that EU is for the better?

 

Last time I read there had been 4 Independent studies done, 3 said we were better off out and 1 said in.

[Gambino]

The only appeal to me in this farce of an election is ukip actually, bcos of their foreign policy. People don't seem to understand that the most important issue to any voter should be the country's foreign policy ( which doesn't just include immigration). And on that note all the major parties are aligned in the same daemon way of continuing the status quo.

 

I'd like to see some demographics on who is voting for what. I'm under the probably controversial impression that the majority of Asian voters who gained a dislike for the UK due to it's wars will run out and vote for the same party who embarked on them ( Labour ) due to it's pro immigration open door policy.

[Corrigan]

The only appeal to me in this farce of an election is ukip actually, bcos of their foreign policy. People don't seem to understand that the most important issue to any voter should be the country's foreign policy ( which doesn't just include immigration). And on that note all the major parties are aligned in the same daemon way of continuing the status quo.

 

I'd like to see some demographics on who is voting for what. I'm under the probably controversial impression that the majority of Asian voters who gained a dislike for the UK due to it's wars will run out and vote for the same party who embarked on them ( Labour ) due to it's pro immigration open door policy.

Very generally I see it like this:

Immigrants = labour

Left leaning middle class = Labour/Libdem

Working class morons from down the pub = Tory/Ukip/BNP (don't vote for labour cos they let all the fackin Joe dakis in / the sun tells them not to)

Working class with middle class aspirations = Labour when young as they progress socially and become middle class they may switch allegiance to the Tories

The unemployed = Labour

Right leaning middle class = Tory/UKIP

Upper Class = Tory/UKIP

This is far from concrete, jus my generalisations from the people I encounter. I haven't heard anyone say libdem, this election will be disastrous for them.

[Gambino]

Labour

[Gambino]

CONSERVATIVE

 

[Gambino]

UKIP

 

[Zizouz]

“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.” 

[james00]

 

“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.” 

 

who said that?

 

pretty accurate, i can't stand people that can think their ideas and views boils down to two choices. 

[Corrigan]

“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.”

Show me an old member of thatchers cabinet I'll show you a pedo

[james00]

 

[james00]

little girl don't rate cameron at all PMSL

[Zizouz]

 

 

“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.”

Show me an old member of thatchers cabinet I'll show you a pedo

 

 

ffs

[Zizouz]

 

 

“Show me a young Conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.” 

 

who said that?

 

pretty accurate, i can't stand people that can think their ideas and views boils down to two choices. 

 

 

Often attributed to Winston Churchill ([10]). The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874): "Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

 

Only came to mind cause of Gambino's post.

[Niall Ferguson]

That phrase is an old adage actually about radicals and liberals.

 

It's one of those things that people take and apply to a specific dichotomy.

[dub]

@Gambino, I google'd "britain eu better off studies" and found this article, 3rd result

Britain's economy better off inside EU - government study

....

 

The document offered no figure for the gain in economic output due to the single market but it cited six other studies, five of which said membership was worth up to 6.5 percent in extra GDP. The sixth said GDP was 3 percent lower due to the EU.

 

...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/22/uk-britain-europe-idUKBRE96L0H720130722

 

The government paper is here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/227069/2901084_SingleMarket_acc.pdf

You can find the individual studies at page 38

 

I'm not trying to argue against your standing. I'm sure you could find loads others to support the idea you're standing by.

Just trying to get you to understand that there is more to look at than what the media you choose to consume will give you.

 

"Last time I read there had been 4 Independent studies done" nah, they just chose to tell you about 4 studies. As I said "you can make studies say whatever you want them to" - hence why what you read said 3 out of 4 studies say we're better off out of the EU, and the review from the government says 5 out of 6 studies say we're better off in the EU.

 

Just because an article resonates with what you support doesn't mean its telling you everything you need to know.

[Gambino]

Yea I'm aware Dub that is why I mentioned 4 Independent studies had been done with 3 finding us better off out and 1 finding us better off in. That's a 75% for the out Vote, if Independent studies still stand at 4 being done I don't know, was 6 months to a year ago that I read that.

 

Is that a Government study or mentioning about Independent studies? There's a lot to read there I don't wanna go through it all. Also are they going off the idea that we still have a free trade agreement or not?

[dub]

The article I posted is from July 2013 as is the government review. 1 is from the EU Commission and the others appear to be independent. You can check the page as to 

 

As I said, I'm not arguing the point. I'm just trying to show you that there's more to look at than what the media you choose to check for is showing you.

[Gambino]

Yea I only try to read Independent reviews as I expect they have nothing to gain from it. I can't see a our Government or EU Commission putting out something that goes against their agenda.

[dub]

Why wouldn't independent people have an agenda or something to gain from it?

If beforehand they think its a good idea, would they not look into the parts they think support their idea?

Do they not gain from supporting what they think will be better for the country, and having their work used to make decisions?

If I wrote a paper to support the idea of staying in the EU, and it was used to help make the decision on staying in, and it turned out that we did well due to staying in the EU - have I not gained?

 

With most information you're given, from whatever the source, you should be open to the idea that there is a purpose you're having certain information communicated to you other than to simply increase your knowledge.

[Gambino]

Just as a thought process I would expect an Independent look at things to be Unbiased, kinda like when they do Independent inquiries for crime etc. Where as a Government or EU Commission who refuses to let it's people get a vote on whether to stay or go tells me they are not going to be willing to tell the public any other side than their own.

[dub]

No, an independent enquiry for a crime would have a mandate to be unbiased. If someone who isn't attached to the government publishes a study there's nothing to say they have to be unbiased nor do they have any responsibility to be so.

[Gambino]

Well I'm not part of any of the companies and neither are you so I guess we would never know. But who would you be more compelled to believe, an Independent Study which should have nothing to gain or lose or a Government/EU Study which has everything to gain and lose.