Is Grime the UK's Hip Hop???

[Cipher]

Grime started from garage and was very dissimilar to hip hop.Nowadays the current "grime" artists are as much hip hop as Crunk is.You can take that as Crunk is not hip hop and neither is grime.Or that Crunk IS, and so is grime.They are both now pretty much regional deviations.Where as Crunk is a Mix of Mainstream Club Music & Hip Hop.Grime is a mix of Hip Hop & Garage.(I know that wasnt the best description of crunk but meh)Looking at it from a listeners POV.But then again, it brings it back to..the "culture"If grime cannot be called hip hop because it lacks the tagging/breaking etc in the culture, then most things nowadays cannot be considered Hip Hop.This is why there is difference between Hip Hop & Rap. Though many do not see it.However, it brings us to another point.If you rap on a song, DOES it make it a hip hop/rap song?For example, when Madonna "rapped" in "American life" I think it was. Did it make it a rap song? Or merely a pop song with rapping involved?Or is it the beat?When Eminem Raps over "Sing for the moment" which is sampled form an Aerosmith song...is it a rock song because of the backing music?If Timbaland takes samples a Pop song for a beat and gives it to Jadakiss, does that make jadakiss song pop, or hip hop? (no jokes)What then if jada passed on the beat, and Justin Timberlake instead took it. What then would it be? *i used jada as a very loose example, would have said 50, but then poeple would say "but he's pop! " *Because music is often "more" than the sum of its parts, I think you have to take the genre from the actuall ARTIST themselves..So.The arists define themselves and their movement as Grime, then it is grime.And that is just on a very basic level..

[Removal Man]

Grime started from garage and was very dissimilar to hip hop.Nowadays the current "grime" artists are as much hip hop as Crunk is.You can take that as Crunk is not hip hop and neither is grime.Or that Crunk IS, and so is grime.They are both now pretty much regional deviations.Where as Crunk is a Mix of Mainstream Club Music & Hip Hop.Grime is a mix of Hip Hop & Garage.(I know that wasnt the best description of crunk but meh)Looking at it from a listeners POV.But then again, it brings it back to..the "culture"If grime cannot be called hip hop because it lacks the tagging/breaking etc in the culture, then most things nowadays cannot be considered Hip Hop.This is why there is difference between Hip Hop & Rap. Though many do not see it.However, it brings us to another point.If you rap on a song, DOES it make it a hip hop/rap song?For example, when Madonna "rapped" in "American life" I think it was. Did it make it a rap song? Or merely a pop song with rapping involved?Or is it the beat?When Eminem Raps over "Sing for the moment" which is sampled form an Aerosmith song...is it a rock song because of the backing music?If Timbaland takes samples a Pop song for a beat and gives it to Jadakiss, does that make jadakiss song pop, or hip hop? (no jokes)What then if jada passed on the beat, and Justin Timberlake instead took it. What then would it be? *i used jada as a very loose example, would have said 50, but then poeple would say "but he's pop! " *Because music is often "more" than the sum of its parts, I think you have to take the genre from the actuall ARTIST themselves..So.The arists define themselves and their movement as Grime, then it is grime.And that is just on a very basic level..

i wasn't sure where u where going wit that at the beginning, but that was very nice and well thought outi would like to add....i think its safe to say that garage is to grime what funk is to hip hop on one levelthat being that both garage and funk were good strong music scenes/genres that appealed to 'street people', and the art forms born out of them (hip hop, grime) would be the transition to 'street music', hence similarities

[FamilyTree]

grime is a type of rap musichiphop is a type of rap musicdifferent things, but connected imo

[That's That Kid]

UK Hip Hop is a movement, a lifestyle.Grime is just straight road music.

[TF/S4DK]

Its not the same.Grime has the gritty raw street feeling that hiphop in the us use have. I dont see why Kano changed to hiphop when he was signed for tunes like ghetto kyote and ps and qs not brown eyes or dat sh*t he did with craig david.Grime is whats musics about, the mcs are hungry for it.Its hard to explain doe..Theres grime in america, france, norway etc. so it aint just a uk thing...Grime in the UK has a sort of culture, Hiphop in the UK is just classed as begging the USAI dont understand people who say grime is dead either when there is 10+ albums coming out, 30+mixtapes, Logan has a legal show on kiss, Westwood has a grime guest nearly everyweek, people all over the world book grime mcs i could go on, theres a new big grime forum, grime videos are getting played on base. Only thing it needs is raves.

Kano was signed cos he had a underground following & was considered marketable. He made them tunes cos they are actual songs, and more relevant to a wider demographic of people.

[TF/S4DK]

Grime started from garage and was very dissimilar to hip hop.Nowadays the current "grime" artists are as much hip hop as Crunk is.You can take that as Crunk is not hip hop and neither is grime.Or that Crunk IS, and so is grime.They are both now pretty much regional deviations.Where as Crunk is a Mix of Mainstream Club Music & Hip Hop.Grime is a mix of Hip Hop & Garage.(I know that wasnt the best description of crunk but meh)Looking at it from a listeners POV.But then again, it brings it back to..the "culture"If grime cannot be called hip hop because it lacks the tagging/breaking etc in the culture, then most things nowadays cannot be considered Hip Hop.This is why there is difference between Hip Hop & Rap. Though many do not see it.However, it brings us to another point.If you rap on a song, DOES it make it a hip hop/rap song?For example, when Madonna "rapped" in "American life" I think it was. Did it make it a rap song? Or merely a pop song with rapping involved?Or is it the beat?When Eminem Raps over "Sing for the moment" which is sampled form an Aerosmith song...is it a rock song because of the backing music?If Timbaland takes samples a Pop song for a beat and gives it to Jadakiss, does that make jadakiss song pop, or hip hop? (no jokes)What then if jada passed on the beat, and Justin Timberlake instead took it. What then would it be? *i used jada as a very loose example, would have said 50, but then poeple would say "but he's pop! " *Because music is often "more" than the sum of its parts, I think you have to take the genre from the actuall ARTIST themselves..So.The arists define themselves and their movement as Grime, then it is grime.And that is just on a very basic level..

Bad description of grime & crunk, lol.Madonna's song was a pop song.That Eminem song was a pop song.Depends on the pop song & how it was flipped by producer or artist.Depends on the beat.Disagree, for example Kano is not a grime artist.

[Kaiser]

Grime>>>>Uk Hiphopllow man like Sincere'Doogie','darg'

[TF/S4DK]

Grime>>>>Uk Hiphopllow man like Sincere'Doogie','darg'

Thats North road slang.Funny enough Scorcher & Wretch says it too, should we allow them too? Or does that rule not apply to "grime" emcees???

[Removal Man]

Grime>>>>Uk Hiphopllow man like Sincere'Doogie','darg'

Thats North road slang.Funny enough Scorcher & Wretch says it too, should we allow them too? Or does that rule not apply to "grime" emcees???

its jus not acceptable, anywherean mos people do llow them two these days, ever since they ran away with words like 'doogie' & 'darg' ironicallytrusay u love up your wannabe yank sh*t innit

[TF/S4DK]

If I say its road slang its obviously acceptable somewhere, stop thinking man say it remotely like how a yank says it. Infact tell the next road nigga you see thats unacceptable and let me know what happened yeah, lol.. Actually go tell Sincere in a none music related manner.Lol, funny you say that, as I see the majority of you man still waiting on Simply The Best 2, like fiend in Tiverton...Yeah of course I do, knob.

[Ego]

grime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uk hip hopjust to be ignorantbut yeah init2 completely different rasclart tingsso no

[Removal Man]

Its road slang so obviously its acceptable, stop thinking man say it remotely like who a yank says it.Lol, funny you say that, as I see the majority of you man still waiting on Simply The Best 2, like fiend in Tiverton...Yeah of course I do, knob.

its not acceptable jus cos its 'road', and they do say it how yanks say it, that's the problem, yeah i bet they walk round north thinkin like they've created something new, but the haventthe reason people are fiendin for Simply The BEst 2 is because it is called exactly that, not Leaders of the New School, wen Scorcher got all 'iTrap happy', everyones hopin it'll be a return to form, not a Rick Ross pasticheand you're into SAS, which means you're immediately less sensitive to the beggin of america

[Removal Man]

lol @ the edit, "go and tell Sincere..." SMHbruv, i'm safe wit Sincere, cool guy, and quite approachable, so nex time we chat, i might jus ask him after allhis music's still questionable tho

[Ego]

grime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uk hip hopjust to be ignorantbut yeah init2 completely different rasclart tingsso no

fam jus upload some ego productions with pace setaz on them to let them know the levels. u dun no.

crackLondon Grind(M.Geezy on Vocals Myself on production)http://www.zshare.net/audio/6278144611de97/www.myspace.com/egoofficialcheck da freestyle on there and tell me that is not grimei dont care if camron rapped over it, i do grime dont tell me different

[Agony]

Grime and Hip Hop are two different things.

[TF/S4DK]

Its road slang so obviously its acceptable, stop thinking man say it remotely like who a yank says it.Lol, funny you say that, as I see the majority of you man still waiting on Simply The Best 2, like fiend in Tiverton...Yeah of course I do, knob.

its not acceptable jus cos its 'road', and they do say it how yanks say it, that's the problem, yeah i bet they walk round north thinkin like they've created something new, but the haventthe reason people are fiendin for Simply The BEst 2 is because it is called exactly that, not Leaders of the New School, wen Scorcher got all 'iTrap happy', everyones hopin it'll be a return to form, not a Rick Ross pasticheand you're into SAS, which means you're immediately less sensitive to the beggin of america

Lol. Its not said how yanks say it at ALL, but ok. Just out of curiousity, the slang termanlogy of whips comes from what country?Lol. But you haven't heard it? and wouldnt you judge on someone last work? Oh yeah this is the grime scene, your probably waiting on Kano & Ms. Dynamite to drop them new grime albums...Lol, SAS dont beg America but ok, they lived in America & a big percentage of their musical following is Americian.

[TF/S4DK]

lol @ the edit, "go and tell Sincere..." SMHbruv, i'm safe wit Sincere, cool guy, and quite approachable, so nex time we chat, i might jus ask him after allhis music's still questionable tho

Like I said, say it to him on a non-musical road level.

[Removal Man]

@ TFlol at ur argument, so it would surprise you if someone who hasnt checked for Raekwon in ten years suddenly gets excited about Cuban LInx 2?and lol @ 'road level' WTF i s that? i'm an adult bruv

[Joel C]

look at early grime instrumentals which to me is what grime really is. they are dance (garage) tunes not hip hop.maybe more recently artisits have been beggin the hip hop scene

Innit, this is what he aint gettingGrime is/started off as dance/club music

It doesnt mater where it originated from...The question relates to how 'grime' fits in the global scheme of things TODAY!!I would argue that 'Grime' IS the UK's version of HipHop...I fail to see exactly what it is that seperates 'Grime' from HipHop.. Is it an identity thing? Do you soooo badly want something to originate from the UK that you'll fool yourself into believing that you cant compare it to something thats been around for 20+ years???

So your saying Grime still isnt club music?Seen.

[TF/S4DK]

@ TFlol at ur argument, so it would surprise you if someone who hasnt checked for Raekwon in ten years suddenly gets excited about Cuban LInx 2?and lol @ 'road level' WTF i s that? i'm an adult bruv

Yeah if they hadnt heard more than 2 tunes off it, it would, cos a title alone shouldnt excite, well not if your fickle enough to stop listening to someone cos they say the odd "US" slang word here & there...If you dont understand then it says it all. Sincere is trying to be a music artist, he has to be approachable, but it wasnt always like that...

[Joel C]

grime is a type of rap musichiphop is a type of rap musicdifferent things, but connected imo

No its not, Hip Hop is the whole culture - Rap is the musicRap is a part of Hip Hop not the other way round

[Removal Man]

@ TFlol at ur argument, so it would surprise you if someone who hasnt checked for Raekwon in ten years suddenly gets excited about Cuban LInx 2?and lol @ 'road level' WTF i s that? i'm an adult bruv

Yeah if they hadnt heard more than 2 tunes off it, it would, cos a title alone shouldnt excite, well not if your fickle enough to stop listening to someone cos they say the odd "US" slang word here & there...If you dont understand then it says it all. Sincere is trying to be a music artist, he has to be approachable, but it wasnt always like that...

it seems to be u that doesnt understand, bullshit an album title doesnt excite, especially wen its a part 2 on an already classic album, i've made my point about Strictly The BEst and its a good one, STB = good mixtape, Leaders Of The NEw School = dissapointing, we simply want that first one againand lol at stopping listening to someone cos they drop a word u dont like, stop exagerating, Scorcher changed up his whole style on a number of tracks an thought he could get away wit it, he didn't, bout "i trap, i slang, etc etc i'm i hustler doogie..." - no!the reason people out there don;t like the darg talk is cos Grime showed everyone that we didnt need hip hop and americanisms, we had our own sh*t, accent, flows, slang, scene, culture and a way of doin things etc, suddenly mimickin americans is like a step backwards, i take offence to that sh*t

[Social]

response to topic title-originally grime was to uk the equivalent to wat hiphop is in usa

[FANTA]

We need to take back our music.These debates piss me off sometimes.

[Scorpzz]

We need to take back our music.These debates piss me off sometimes.

lol @ thinking we lost it*listen to president T*