UK Economy

[Benicio del Toney]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-16332115

that table looks peak for the old powers

america is still holding no.1 spot

\

lool

the telegraph comments are SALTY

http://www.telegraph...-to-Brazil.html

"How much does Brazil donate in foreign aid, disaster relief etc? Must pop off to worlds top ten beggars, murders, slums etc"

"If India moves up to 5th place does that mean we won't have to send them anymore foreign aid ? Don't hold your breath,they'll probably be plenty of do-gooders(aka nutters) still insisting we give our money away to countries that are richer than we are. I suppose it'll help them with their space and nuclear programmes."

" This is disgusting! Aren't they in a 'Free Trade Area'? Do they have extensive rights for their workers?: maternity/paternity leave, working hours directives etc.? What about a Schengen agreement? Why can't our welfare claimants go to Brazil and get free housing and benefits over there? Either the EU sorts this out or we should get out and be like Brazil."

shat up

They have a point.

This country is exploited differently by some immigrants.

Remember that story about the Somalian family of 6/7 living in Holland Park, 2k rent paid for by housing benefit.

Fuck off.

[MARVELL]

<p>

Lol.

Before I start, what do you consider "middle class"?

middle class to me are people who earn what is termed a middle income probably between 40 and 70k. traditionally own their property,politically and socially engaged, accountants, architects, doctors, lawyers, teachers, social workers, managers, businessmen, engineers, or civil servants

[Platinum50]

without our social net, you think poverty be on the same levels as in those countries?

[Fresh]

10bn for our olympics, food for thought.

[TF S4DK]

<p>

Lol.

Before I start, what do you consider "middle class"?

middle class to me are people who earn what is termed a middle income probably between 40 and 70k. traditionally own their property,politically and socially engaged, accountants, architects, doctors, lawyers, teachers, social workers, managers, businessmen, engineers, or civil servants

Lol and you think I know no middle class people? Based on what you just said I am middle class you mug.

[MARVELL]

yeah yeah, what i said is a lifestyle. for you to claim its staying the same you mustn't know any thats all. claim what you like you cunttypical black man trying to gain some self respect when he talks a load of crap. my main statement was that the middle class in this country IS shrinking. you can make another thread to blow your trumpet.

[Guest M12 Part 2]

tbh i wouldnt say the middle class is shrinking per se, I'd say more the quality of life associated with being middle class is falling.

[MARVELL]

bills are higher, cost of living is higher, people are trapped in their mortgages, more strain on the parents who have to help their kids onto the housing ladder, and slow businesses, pensions getting chopped, you dont even need surveys, but they correlate with that. London is very different from the rest of the country.

[TF S4DK]

tbh i wouldnt say the middle class is shrinking per se, I'd say more the quality of life associated with being middle class is falling.

Exactly. Less meals out, the car wont change as often, the two holidays a year have become 1, etc...

But to think they will suddenly become poor is the nonsense only Marvell can spout.

[djbmc]

lol the middle class isn't shrinking, wtf r u talking about?

[MARVELL]

where did i say they will become poor?

I SAID THE MIDDLE CLASS IS SHRINKING,...THIS MEANS THAT THE ABILITY TO MAINTAIN THE LIFESTYLE'S ENJOYED TRADITIONALLY BY THE MIDDLE CLASS IS BEING HOLLOWED OUT, BY OTHER EXTERNAL FACTORS, WHICH INCLUDE THE MIDDLE INCOME EARNERS EARNING LESS MONEY. THE FACT THAT THE RECESSION HIT SO HARD AND IS STILL STUTTERING IN THE FIRST PLACE IS AS A RESULT OF THE MIDDLE CLASS BEING HIT SO BAD.

if it was something that just affected lower paid workers or the very rich, recovery wouldve been faster.

the two holidays abroad have become NONE, the car is essential so thats not going to change.

[TF S4DK]

To shrink means people leaving a class, so they either become upper class or work class. In essence become richer or poorer.

I'd say it effects the working class more than the middle class but hey your the oracle lol mug.

The middle class just tighten there belts accordingly, it's the working class that usually won't have the savings and in jobs more vulnerable.

I don't know what middle class people you know that don't go on holiday once a year or once every 2 years tbh. If they dont its probably because they never did.

[MARVELL]

theres a difference between being poorER and poor. when a billionaire loses £300m one can say he became poorer

when a house hold who joinly earn £60-120k and now earn 1/3 or in many cases less than that, they may have become poorer but are not poor

information from the financial sources say that the middle class is shrinking, not only in the EU, but also in the US

when you compare this to the developing countries who's middle class is experience an explosion

you also have the kids of the middle class, traditional graduates who have gone to many of the best colleges still struggling to find work

which is why when there was a recruitment for a simple coordinator position earning 22k, you had people with a masters from oxford

and degrees from some of the best uni's.

so likewise, i dont know what sort of middle class people you are talking of either.

unless you all gas each other and pretend its all rosy.

[TF S4DK]

But he would still be rich. His social class wouldn't have changed, only thing he'd lose would be his billionaire status...

Unless you lose your job, or are in a job which previously relied on over-time or bonuses/comission to heavily boost your pay then, your household budget should be remaining the same, just not spreading as far as it once did due to inflation in everything but salaries.

[Sinister]

Whilst most people tend to blame banks and I do agree they are predominantly to blame, does anyone else seem to think the solution on this one might actually lie closer to home?

Most people I know don't save, even this Christmas a lady at work was complaining about the debt she's in just buying presents and yet her concept of a present was a Kindle, 3DTV etc. and she wasn't buying them from the cheapest places either.

While there are ways the system is forcibly trying to get us into debt, e.g. Student Loans, incredibly expensive first time buyer mortgages etc. surely the large majority don't understand the concept of saving or saving for a rainy day?

[Guest M12 Part 2]

Whilst most people tend to blame banks and I do agree they are predominantly to blame, does anyone else seem to think the solution on this one might actually lie closer to home?

Most people I know don't save, even this Christmas a lady at work was complaining about the debt she's in just buying presents and yet her concept of a present was a Kindle, 3DTV etc. and she wasn't buying them from the cheapest places either.

While there are ways the system is forcibly trying to get us into debt, e.g. Student Loans, incredibly expensive first time buyer mortgages etc. surely the large majority don't understand the concept of saving or saving for a rainy day?

I agree but there has to be a balance. Let me paint a picture.

A person on 35k takes home about 2k a month. They want to get a mortgage and buy a house. Meanwhile they have to rent somewhere.

Even living super basic in a studio apartment will set you back about £1100 pcm. Then you have to pay for food, travel etc. and thats before you start the frivolous stuff like nights out etc.

Realistically that person can save about £600 per month, and thats living like a student with no car, no insurance, no children etc. £600 x 12 months = £7200. A very average house in London is about 250k. 15% depo needed means they have to save 37.5k.

37,500/7200= 5 years of saving and living like a bum and thats without taking into account that a house worth 250 now will probably be worth 300 in 5 years, so they still wont have enough.

It is not right that we live in a country where someone who is considered to be doing well cant even afford an average home.

[Supermalt]

another thing is, do we really need to own a home (why not a flat?) in the first place.

yeah theres the arguement that renting is like throwing money away,

but living in such a global economy where you could easily relocate somewhere else that your business or employment leads you.

why would someone in this day want to be tied down when we are not going to work for one company in the same city for the rest of our lives like our parents.

In london of all places aswell, and we hardly spend time at home anyway. I'm still in two minds over this.

[Guest M12 Part 2]

i agree 100% but its better to re-locate and rent out your flat/house and have someone else paying it down. Than to spend your life paying rent to different people and have nothing to give to your children

it doesnt have to be one or the other

[Sinister]

Whilst most people tend to blame banks and I do agree they are predominantly to blame, does anyone else seem to think the solution on this one might actually lie closer to home?

Most people I know don't save, even this Christmas a lady at work was complaining about the debt she's in just buying presents and yet her concept of a present was a Kindle, 3DTV etc. and she wasn't buying them from the cheapest places either.

While there are ways the system is forcibly trying to get us into debt, e.g. Student Loans, incredibly expensive first time buyer mortgages etc. surely the large majority don't understand the concept of saving or saving for a rainy day?

I agree but there has to be a balance. Let me paint a picture.

A person on 35k takes home about 2k a month. They want to get a mortgage and buy a house. Meanwhile they have to rent somewhere.

Even living super basic in a studio apartment will set you back about £1100 pcm. Then you have to pay for food, travel etc. and thats before you start the frivolous stuff like nights out etc.

Realistically that person can save about £600 per month, and thats living like a student with no car, no insurance, no children etc. £600 x 12 months = £7200. A very average house in London is about 250k. 15% depo needed means they have to save 37.5k.

37,500/7200= 5 years of saving and living like a bum and thats without taking into account that a house worth 250 now will probably be worth 300 in 5 years, so they still wont have enough.

It is not right that we live in a country where someone who is considered to be doing well cant even afford an average home.

No need to paint a picture, I'm in a similar situation where I rent a studio flat in Brum and been fighting for the past 3 years to save up something while clearing my Uni debt.

However, you say that like a £250k house should be everyones dream? I know for a fact the moment you leave the M25 the prices for houses drop radically and I've never looked back since I left London.

Another question I ask is what is wrong with renting?

another thing is, do we really need to own a home (why not a flat?) in the first place.

yeah theres the arguement that renting is like throwing money away,

but living in such a global economy where you could easily relocate somewhere else that your business or employment leads you.

why would someone in this day want to be tied down when we are not going to work for one company in the same city for the rest of our lives like our parents.

In london of all places aswell, and we hardly spend time at home anyway. I'm still in two minds over this.

THIS

[The New Diaby]

I've lived in rented accomadtion all my life and no one in my family tree has ever owned a house outright,

There hasn't been anyone in my family who has been educated past secondary school level and no one has earnt over £20k.

You telling me this problems only just arising?

Rented accomodation is shit, you never feel in control and infact you feel like you're being controlled.

I wanted a dog, landlord said no you can't have one, they come in when they like and when ever they please

It's the fact you have no security, you're robbing peter to pay paul

[Supermalt]

I can see London going the way of san fran and other such cities becoming a renters city very soon. People in their 20s are donkeys chasing a carrot when saving for a down payment i.e.

M12: 37,500/7200= 5 years of saving and living like a bum and thats without taking into account that a house worth 250 now will probably be worth 300 in 5 years, so they still wont have enough

So then whats the point, Thacthers property-owning democracy dream is dying.

[Sinister]

Na, I understand where M12 is coming from but the House argument would stand with most people.

I'm talking about racking up huge CC and overdraft debt for absolutely nothing.

Most people wouldn't argue about getting into debt if they had something substantial like a house at the end of it.

[Benicio del Toney]

another thing is, do we really need to own a home (why not a flat?) in the first place.

yeah theres the arguement that renting is like throwing money away,

but living in such a global economy where you could easily relocate somewhere else that your business or employment leads you.

why would someone in this day want to be tied down when we are not going to work for one company in the same city for the rest of our lives like our parents.

In london of all places aswell, and we hardly spend time at home anyway. I'm still in two minds over this.

!!!!

[Benicio del Toney]

i agree 100% but its better to re-locate and rent out your flat/house and have someone else paying it down. Than to spend your life paying rent to different people and have nothing to give to your children

it doesnt have to be one or the other

I understand where you are coming from but this notion of leaving shit for children I'm not sure is necessary.

The best thing you could give your children is a good upbringing and education.

If you give them that, like really, they won't need your 300k split 4/5 ways when you die.

[JOHN DOE]

'good upbringing and education' easier said then done