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In/Out Shake it all about.


The EU Debate  

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  1. 1. Should Britain Stay In The EU or Leave?



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If you want to be rich, being in the EU is pretty much essential as you will have to exploit it, whether its trade or cheap labour etc...

However if you want that 2.4 children easy just above bread line working class life then dropping out could be better.

/

The uks biggest problem and the reason its on the down it has no natural resources and is now unable to conquer and rape othr countries for thiers....

It relies almost soley on banking and industry which is nearly all forign owned, it needs these arabs to come buy everything in london to keep it running, have people employed and turn a profit...without them the uk would fall apart and be left so behind by the rest of the world(would be like old eastern europe) just check some of them northern towns for confirmation.

And IF you want to copy the models by norway and switzerland 2 things would have to happen that I'm sure people who don't want to be in the EU would be happy about.

1. Shut down the army and divert all millitary spending into other public sectors.

2. As all the eu workers(millions) would prob kick back home, open the doors for immigrants, to take there places.

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If you want to be rich, being in the EU is pretty much essential as you will have to exploit it, whether its trade or cheap labour etc... However if you want that 2.4 children easy just above bread

It's not really a question about economics. It's about whether you believe in parliamentary democracy or not. Its about whether you believe in national sovereignty or not.   From its inception, The

You seem to be burdening Brown with the fallout of a global crisis and perceiving me as someone who is against the super rich when that's not it. How is being the party of Bernie Ecclestone some sort

Bollocks to be quite honest. Businesses would work fine with a free market without being in this Political Union. The UK Holds it's own on the World Stage. They talk shit about us being left out in the dark and not having the 500 Million in Europe to back us. Well we do have a Commonwealth still which we are not allowed to trade with at the moment because the EU says so. Let's go deal with Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc etc.

 

Australia have just found that they are sitting on $20 Trillion worth of Shale Oil.

 

 

http://ukrp.musicradio.com/lbc973/live Farage live for the next hour talking about the EU.

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Bollocks to be quite honest. Businesses would work fine with a free market without being in this Political Union. The UK Holds it's own on the World Stage. They talk shit about us being left out in the dark and not having the 500 Million in Europe to back us. Well we do have a Commonwealth still which we are not allowed to trade with at the moment because the EU says so. Let's go deal with Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc etc.

 

Australia have just found that they are sitting on $20 Trillion worth of Shale Oil.

 

 

http://ukrp.musicradio.com/lbc973/live Farage live for the next hour talking about the EU.

 

On one hand you're complaining about people from the EU coming here and exploiting the system but in the next breath you're saying 'we have a commonwealth' which is the testament to England's exploitation of other countries.

 

Having your cake and eating it then demanding a second serving comes to mind.

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Commonwealth is very different from the European Mafia so no not quite. My argument is that we should be free to trade with the rest of the World. The EU isn't the be all and end all.

 

As someone else put it. The Commonwealth was a free collection of nations across a spectrum of political and economic ability and needs. They worked in cooperation, independently without the need for laws, convergence of political ideology and imposition of controls. It was about free trade and mutual respect.

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Flojo, The point remains is that Brown, Cameron, Osborne, Milliband and Balls do not have any work experience outside of politics. They all live in a Metropolitan, elitist bubble. You shouldn't begrudge anyone for being born into a wealthy family, it is an accident of life, as much as being born in a particular country. I only have a problem with Cameron and Osborne because of their patrician outlook.  

 

You obviously didn't get what i was talking about, when I referred to Labour as the party of Ecclestone. Labour have all received money from Ecclestone, Mittal, the Hinduja Brothers who in turn do political favours for these billionaires. Just like the Tories

 

Yeah of course Brown is partly culpable. He was responsible for the light touch regulation of city, and the tripartite system which utterly failed this country. And he left he country in such a state that we our economy still hasn't really recovered from that crisis. He bailed out the banks instead of letting them fail like a good capitalist. A foolish policy which has copied foolishly by other finance ministers. growth under his watch was just an illusion fueled by cheap credit (n.b. the rent seeking gamblers in the city of london). That cheap credit no longer exists which is why structurally our economy is in such a mess. 

 

Why do you continue to believe this nonsense that Labour looks out for the poorest in society despite all the evidence that points to the contrary? 

 

1. Social mobility declined to their lowest levels under Labour. 

 

2. The gap between the rich and the poor widened to the highest levels since records began under labour. 

 

Their failure to control immigrant labour has also not been good for the working class, whether it applies to jobs or housing. 

 

"As for constantly pointing the finger at the previous Government, the expiry date for doing that has passed." what nonsense! Every current government will be burdened by the mistakes of the previous government. Especially with an economic crisis as dire as the one we are facing now. It will take more than 3 years. To think that anyone could extricate the country form its problems in under 3 years in simply naive. People still give obama the benefit of the doubt, because of the sh*t that was handed to him by Bush.  

 

The main point is that all parties are run by people who do not care about you. The Tories will not help you and neither will Labour

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David Cameron is promising a referendum if he wins the next election. He will never win the next election. He is a fool.

 

Yup.  If he believes we want a referendum he should be trying to offer it ASAP rather than use it as some sort of leverage in order to try and gain votes.  Pathetic and desperate if you ask me.

 

Plus if people are so sure that the tories are on their way out then this whole debate on in or out of the EU is a waste of time....

 

@Ulysses - if the Tories will not help you and neither will Labour - and the lib dems are spineless sell outs - what party would you support?

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David Cameron is promising a referendum if he wins the next election. He will never win the next election. He is a fool.

 

Yup.  If he believes we want a referendum he should be trying to offer it ASAP rather than use it as some sort of leverage in order to try and gain votes.  Pathetic and desperate if you ask me.

 

Plus if people are so sure that the tories are on their way out then this whole debate on in or out of the EU is a waste of time....

 

@Ulysses - if the Tories will not help you and neither will Labour - and the lib dems are spineless sell outs - what party would you support?

None of them tbh. Don't put your faith in any politician. Don't think that things will get better, or someone can make things better.  

 

But I do think that Ed Milliband will be the next PM

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I agree. 

 

Pretty pessimistic to say "dont think that things will get better"

 

But yeah, we swing back and forth back and forth between tories and labour under the illusion that our votes actually change something

 

My last hope was with the lib dems, a credible 3rd option, how they let us down.

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The 21st century and beyond will be shaped by nation states the size of continents, none of these will be Britain. Leaving the EU is the one of the dumbest, most xenophobic things i have ever heard.

 

It's not xenophobic at all. What has it got to do with xenophobia? It's got nothing to do with hating foreigners at all. It's a question of whether we we believe in parliamentary democracy and national sovereignty.  It's a question of liberty. If i am not happy with Brussels.What can I do about it ? Absolutely nothing. - Vote for your MEP, in a system that's more democratic than our own If i hate David cameron then I will not vote for him in the next election. If the EU was just a free market area then fine. But it is not, and it was never intended to be anything other then a european superstate.

 

"The 21st century and beyond will be shaped by nation states the size of continents, none of these will be Britain." Said who? - Said USA, China and Brazil who all have larger economies than us, soon to be joined by India it would be better for us to be like Norway or switzerland, and be free and prosperous. Than to continue to act as if we were important and act in a self-aggrandizing way on the world stage. - both countries have to follow EU legislation if they want to trade with the single market yet get no say on its implementation, that's undemocratic is it not?

 

A question for you- Living standards are higher where? A) Norway and Switzerland or b  )China ? - A better question for you, whose are growing at a faster rate?

 

Isn't strange that for centuries British foreign policy has been concerned with stoping a hegemonic power from dominating Europe. (be it with King Phillip of Spain, the Dutch, Napoleon etc.) Isn't strange that we fought two world wars to stop germany from dominating Europe. But now we have a germany that basically runs europe and will ensure that we also become a vassal state if we continue to be in this wretched organisation. - This is what it comes down to, and here is your xenophobic reason, fear of the foreigner. Fear that a German might tell you what to do.

Absolute nonsense. You obviously have no understanding of how the EU works. 

 

The European Parliament is just a deliberative body they are not a legislative body like at Westminster. All they do really is debate sh*t. They don't have any power. The European Commission is the executive body, they are the ones who decide sh*t. And they are not elected but appointed. And usually they are failed politicians. 

 

Stop thinking about economies in that way of course China, India and Brazil will have bigger economies. The UK has a population of 60 m. Brazil nearly 300m and china over a billion. What is important is GDP PER CAPITA. In that sense we are a lot wealthier than both countries. The average person has a much better standard of living than in China or brazil. 

 

It doesn't matter what country is growing at a faster rate. Ethiopia's economy is growing at a faster rate than the UK's it doesn't mean a thing. When you start from a lower level and have plenty of spare capacity of course you will grow at a higher rate.  

 

"This is what it comes down to, and here is your xenophobic reason, fear of the foreigner. Fear that a German might tell you what to do." you are just being silly. Why wouldn't anyone want their country to independent and free from external influence? Are Iraqis or Afghans xenophobic? 

i'm aware that GDP per person is much higher here, but how long do you think that can go on for when china has double its gdp per head in 10 years, as for the european legislation: All EU legislation is subject either to adoption by the elected Council of Ministers, in co-operation with the elected European Parliament, or by the Commission acting together with the elected governments of the Member States and subject to the scrutiny of the elected European Parliament.

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I agree. 

 

Pretty pessimistic to say "dont think that things will get better"

 

But yeah, we swing back and forth back and forth between tories and labour under the illusion that our votes actually change something

 

My last hope was with the lib dems, a credible 3rd option, how they let us down.

 

Why not vote for UKIP then? There was talk of them overtaking Lib Dems as the 3rd party now.

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I agree. 

 

Pretty pessimistic to say "dont think that things will get better"

 

But yeah, we swing back and forth back and forth between tories and labour under the illusion that our votes actually change something

 

My last hope was with the lib dems, a credible 3rd option, how they let us down.

 

Why not vote for UKIP then? There was talk of them overtaking Lib Dems as the 3rd party now.

Because this country just loves getting it up the shitter and not caring for each other.

 

Please show me where democracy exists?

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these man arguing about politics when everything has been planned to be this way. labour, libdem cons..all the same sheeeping you into thinking you have some real say in the matter. the UK leaving the EU wont happen. and as for tony blair or labour being pro war..they were always that way, born that way as daemonz. whoever is in power will try as much as possible to prevent real economic powers to emerge.

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I agree. 

 

Pretty pessimistic to say "dont think that things will get better"

 

But yeah, we swing back and forth back and forth between tories and labour under the illusion that our votes actually change something

 

My last hope was with the lib dems, a credible 3rd option, how they let us down.

 

Why not vote for UKIP then? There was talk of them overtaking Lib Dems as the 3rd party now.

From the little I know of them, not the kind of party I would have considered voting for.  But yeah, probably some kind of protest vote for a small party tbh.  Maybe the greens or something.

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What is it you know of them that makes them not for you? 

 

General reputation that they are far right / bnp-ish....admittedly I havent looked into it much myself.

 

I will be looking for a new '3rd party' to support since the lib dems sold out.

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Well I advise you to check them out. Especially Farage, check his YouTube videos. He's on TV constantly as well now since they are rising in population. The whole Far Right BNP stuff is bollocks. That's the tripe they get questioned about all the time, even guys like Cameron talk about them being a bunch of Looneys because he's pissed how many votes they are taking from their party.

 

Nothing about them is based on race. But they are a Pro British and Libertarian party. Farage is pretty much the only Politician I actually trust and would vote for. Guys a man of conviction and belief from the way he presents himself.

 

They are the 3rd Party now too. 

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