SLEAZE BALL Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Bro I don't need to watch the movies I have lived the movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015    Exactly Capitalism has no moral base  What do you mean when you say this? It's self explanatory Operating for profit and operating based on what's fair, just or for the greater good are two totally different (and seperate) things   But we don't live under pure capitalism, that's why I was asking. Under the system we live in the two things (fortunately) aren't two separate things.   They wouldn't be two completely different things anyway. Simple ideas like: pay a worker fairly -> worker is happy -> happy worker makes a good product -> product can sell for more because it was made well. Obviously you can tip the weight.  "Capitalism has no moral base" is correct, but just because it lacks morals at the base doesn't mean you don't see them involved elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015  it does because the person purchasing drugs is a victim at his own expense, he can't push blame onto the dealer  Fraud is completely different in terms of morality What about his kids? Are they victims at their own expense?  IF it even affects them..theyre victims at their legal guardians expense, not the dealers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 But capitalising off of that doesn't speak about your morality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 how do i know if a punters got kids fam? Â its irrelevant, he rings because he wants a product..he receives what he wants and likes it enough that he rings again.. Â HIS CHOICE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLEAZE BALL Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 But capitalising off of that doesn't speak about your morality? Course not Same way glens vodkas morality is not brought into question 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 you aren't stupid are you? people have kids. If you live in that world you should know the effects it can have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Course not Same way glens vodkas morality is not brought into question  The question was about drugs and theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 but its also your choice to put drugs into the community you can't say drug dealers have 0% blame just because: if you didn't exist, there'd still be a problem - does not mean you're not part of the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLEAZE BALL Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Do you question the morality of the sainsburys worker who sells cigarettes at the tills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 lol lets take cocaine for example...  you aren't stupid are you? people have kids. If you live in that world you should know the effects it can have  The CEO of your company probably sniffs lines on his days off  dunno why you're always thinking worse case scenario 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 but its also your choice to put drugs into the community you can't say drug dealers have 0% blame just because: if you didn't exist, there'd still be a problem - does not mean you're not part of the problem  0% no... but the majority of the blame lies with the person buying the drugs  now tell me where the blame lies (in percentages) when it comes to fraud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 yeah but that's fine, we've already established that fraud victims aren't willing and drug abuse victims are but that doesn't make fraudsters worse than drug dealers because the argument doesn't boil down to that single arguing point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 lol lets take cocaine for example...  you aren't stupid are you? people have kids. If you live in that world you should know the effects it can have  The CEO of your company probably sniffs lines on his days off  dunno why you're always thinking worse case scenario  I mentioned before my view. It is a case vs case situation. I'm using the worse cases to show you that "a willing transaction" is not an argument for theft being morally worse than selling drugs.  Basic economics does not come into morality (which is what the question is based on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Do you question the morality of the sainsburys worker who sells cigarettes at the tills? Â No but I don't generally question the morality of selling drugs per se. I am now because there is a topic about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mame Biram Diouf Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015  but its also your choice to put drugs into the community you can't say drug dealers have 0% blame just because: if you didn't exist, there'd still be a problem - does not mean you're not part of the problem  0% no... but the majority of the blame lies with the person buying the drugs  now tell me where the blame lies (in percentages) when it comes to fraud   I take out in insurance with a global company worth hundreds of millions of pounds  I put in a relatives address in an area which has lower car break ins so I get a cheaper premium  Thats fraud  Is that morally wrong in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 yeah but that's fine, we've already established that fraud victims aren't willing and drug abuse victims are but that doesn't make fraudsters worse than drug dealers because the argument doesn't boil down to that single arguing point  what other arguing points does it boil down to then  even someone who hates all violence will agree that 2 consenting fighters is better than 1 person beating up another person who doesnt want to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015   but its also your choice to put drugs into the community you can't say drug dealers have 0% blame just because: if you didn't exist, there'd still be a problem - does not mean you're not part of the problem  0% no... but the majority of the blame lies with the person buying the drugs  now tell me where the blame lies (in percentages) when it comes to fraud   I take out in insurance with a global company worth hundreds of millions of pounds  I put in a relatives address in an area which has lower car break ins so I get a cheaper premium  Thats fraud  Is that morally wrong in your opinion?  No but thats on a level similar to someone selling weed in draws to recreational smokers  neither are worse than the other  but on a personal scale where it affects individuals, fraud is worse imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 I would say morality boils down to what you're capitalising on/effects of your actions. You can't really say one is always worse than the other. Case vs case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yung bawse Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 i agree but it still boils down to consent..  consenting sex is just sex  non consenting sex is rape.  consent makes a big difference  therefore drug dealing = sex  fraud = rape  which is worse?  1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dub Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 but its not the same fight is it?  so we've got 2 identical families, lets say, single parent: mother and child  family 1 becomes a victim of fraud, looses all their money - ends up either having to rely on friends and family or the state family 2 becomes a victim of drug abuse, child grows up damaged because its mother was a drug addict  obviously there could be multiple ways both things play out, but in these particular outcomes I'd see that family 2 situation as a worse turnout - now just because mother in family 2 was willing to take those drugs, doesn't mean I should be less pissed at the drug dealer than the fraudster  yes -  this doesn't apply to the general sense of things, I'm just trying to establish the idea that it is not a simple, straight forward argument that you seem to be putting it down to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Like I said, does a child of an addict give consent? Like it or not as a dealer you are also responsible. This consent argument is very weak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dom dom bullets Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Can't take you seriously with that rape/sex comparison. I'm out 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mame Biram Diouf Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Can't take you seriously with that rape/sex comparison. I'm out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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