afc WHOAG

[darkman]

Graham won less than Wenger, and even the journalist said the quotes have been spun a little by some as the point Adams was actually making was that he bases his sides on the mindset of what George Graham taught him "tight back four" than in the Arsene Wenger mould.

Graham won 6 tropies in 9 yearsWenger has won 7 in 15

During the years we were successful there was an alliance of people at the top who made the club successful - that was David Dein, Arsene and myself, I ran the business side and David and Arsene ran the football side. David did a phenomenal job for the club and I think they miss David's role in encouraging Arsene.Arsene is naturally cautious and David was always very ambitious for the club. Look at Sol Campbell and how important he was and how expensive he was as an acquisition at a key moment when he won us a lot of trophies. [Campbell signed on a free transfer, but his wages and signing-on fees amounted to about £6million a year, at the time an unprecedented commitment.] I don't see that now.David was also a great networker. Together with Arsene, David would look at players and get into a position where he felt comfortable [spending money on them]. I used to sit in the boardroom and hear Arsene say, "If you want to win the Premier League, you have to have a world-class goalkeeper".Well, if that's what he believes, has he actually delivered that? David's importance is probably underestimated as he would make sure we now had a world-class goalkeeper.The demise of David is probably the reason why [Arsenal have not won more trophies], that and the fact that they haven't made some key signings at some key moments.There needs to be someone to understand the management that you have and to encourage them in their weak points and support them on that. Arsene is a naturally cautious man and, like any manager, he always thinks that his current management team is better than they actually are.

If a manager needs someone to encourage him what does that say about the manager himself? You think someone is there encouraging Ferguson or Mourinho?Dein's impact wasn't as big as you think. Credit for those tropies should go to Wenger

What did Dein have to do with squad tactics and managment that actually won the trophies?

And Darkman I will ask this one more time, why wouldn't you want him back at Arsenal?

I don't see a need for him to come back

6 is less than 7.Lol.

lol what's a better record 6 in 9 or 7 in 15?

kinda get Darkmans pointnever seen the demise of a club placed on a director beforethe way some of you go on is like they were tag team partners and now hes gonewenger aint up for it or something

Dein made things happen our current board doesn't have that ability

What kind of things? Some of you man talk about Dein like he was a magician

[TF S4DK]

Shouldn't a managers ambition be trophies. If Wenger can't work without Dein then he should f*ck off.

Its more Arsenal not functioning without Dein, than Wenger. You can change the manager, but if the executives can't go and get the big targets then the manager however he is still aint getting no players.You can change the manager, but if the club's hierarcy has no or little ambition or vision, then it is a club that isn't becoming or remaining a big club.

[Natty]

Shouldn't a managers ambition be trophies. If Wenger can't work without Dein then he should f*ck off.

Its more Arsenal not functioning without Dein, than Wenger. You can change the manager, but if the executives can't go and get the big targets then the manager however he is still aint getting no players.You can change the manager, but if the club's hierarcy has no or little ambition or vision, then it is a club that isn't becoming or remaining a big club.

So now you're saying if David Dein was here we would be spending big money? That contradicts all that 'Arsenal don't have much money' stuff you were spouting a month and a bit ago now you aren't blaming us lacking big signings on the board instead money.

[TF S4DK]

Who got sacked? Who has a better win average? Wait infact are you really arguing George Graham being a better or more successful manager for Arsenal than Arsene Wenger?What kind of things? Here's one... David Dein managed to sign Dennis Bergkamp to a 12th placed Arsenal...

[darkman]

Shouldn't a managers ambition be trophies. If Wenger can't work without Dein then he should f*ck off.

Its more Arsenal not functioning without Dein, than Wenger. You can change the manager, but if the executives can't go and get the big targets then the manager however he is still aint getting no players.You can change the manager, but if the club's hierarcy has no or little ambition or vision, then it is a club that isn't becoming or remaining a big club.

So now you're saying if David Dein was here we would be spending big money? That contradicts all that 'Arsenal don't have much money' stuff you were spouting a month and a bit ago now you aren't blaming us lacking big signings on the board instead money.

TF always contradicts himself to suit his argument

[TF S4DK]

Shouldn't a managers ambition be trophies. If Wenger can't work without Dein then he should f*ck off.

Its more Arsenal not functioning without Dein, than Wenger. You can change the manager, but if the executives can't go and get the big targets then the manager however he is still aint getting no players.You can change the manager, but if the club's hierarcy has no or little ambition or vision, then it is a club that isn't becoming or remaining a big club.

So now you're saying if David Dein was here we would be spending big money? That contradicts all that 'Arsenal don't have much money' stuff you were spouting a month and a bit ago now you aren't blaming us lacking big signings on the board instead money.

Smh.David Dein like every member on the board, knew we didnt have money to compete, so he ignored everything the board was saying and he went out and found a billionaire backer (then another one), do you really think Dein did that to say, "hey Stan it's cool you just sit in the background, buy some shares and do f*ck all" of course he would have f*ck*ng used him.

[Student of Accounting]

A Gunners source said: "Arsene currently has his fingers in an awful lot of pies and it is now just a case of waiting to see what will come off."It is not money or transfer fees that are going to stop anything, it just depends on the players."

[darkman]

Who got sacked? Who has a better win average? Wait infact are you really arguing George Graham being a better or more successful manager for Arsenal than Arsene Wenger?

Graham got sacked cos he took a bung not because the team were doing badlyI brought him into the argument as he was a great manager but you're tryna give Dein credit for his success

What kind of things? Here's one... David Dein managed to sign Dennis Bergkamp to a 12th placed Arsenal...

Yes we finished 12 but we were still a big club and he was having a bad time in Italy. Again trying to give Dein too much credit, how you know it wasn't Rioch who convinced him to come?

[TF S4DK]

Seriously I'd be careful if I was you how much you speak about Graham, as tbh you will only confirm that you started supporting Arsenal under Wenger. Graham was under pressure from the fans irrelevant of the bung, he got more terrace criticism than Wenger gets now.No I said Dein was vice-chairman during Arsenal FC most succesful period...Rioch? Lol. Bergkamp wasn't only a big signing for Arsenal, at the time he was a very big signing for English football... Convinced I'm talking to some short memory niggas...Sol Campbell. Now Spurs fans will even tell you that was magic. Interesting to see how you downplay that one, I'll await and see...

[Student of Accounting]

Is that why the cuntish traits run in the family?David Deins son is trying string the sh*t out of Arsenal by getting Cesc to leave Arsenal so he can earn him self a nice pay packet, very much like how Dein robbed us of Henry, Veiria, Overmars, Petit, Anelka etc

[TF S4DK]

Tulse please make sense with your points.

[darkman]

Seriously I'd be careful if I was you how much you speak about Graham, as tbh you will only confirm that you started supporting Arsenal under Wenger. Graham was under pressure from the fans irrelevant of the bung, he got more terrace criticism than Wenger gets now.No I said Dein was vice-chairman during Arsenal FC most succesful period...Rioch? Lol. Bergkamp wasn't only a big signing for Arsenal, at the time he was a very big signing for English football... Convinced I'm talking to some short memory niggas...Sol Campbell. Now Spurs fans will even tell you that was magic. Interesting to see how you downplay that one, I'll await and see...

Graham would not have got sacked then if it wasn't for the bungAnd why lol @ Rioch? I'm sure Dennis would have spoke to him before joining

[TF S4DK]

Graham was under way more pressure than Wenger now. We use to finish midtable, he played Keown in midfield, the football wasn't particular great to watch, he was stubborn and didnt spend money. He was considered a legend cos he won trophies and was a ArsenaI man but many felt it was time for a change. Regardless of the bung I dont think he would have rided it out, maybe not sacked, but their would have been a seperation sooner rather than later.

Rioch had to be ushered through the exit door before it was known exactly when his replacement would arrive. His last act of any note was to qualify for the Uefa Cup on the last day of the 1995-96 season with a somewhat fortuitous home victory against Bolton, although his season at the club had certainly seen him leave it in better shape than it was on his arrival. Not only were Dennis Bergkamp and David Platt now on the playing staff, but Arsenal had embraced a more attractive playing style.Despite this improvement on the field, off it an increasing dissatisfaction with the manager was emanating from all quarters. Peter Hill-Wood put the players’ point of view: “I think they can pick up the vibes quite easily. They respected George and probably were quite frightened of him, however tough he may have been.” Although Messrs Bergkamp and Platt had been captured (widely believed to be the result of David Dein’s efforts rather than the manager’s), as the director for team affairs, Dein became more and more frustrated by Rioch’s indecision. The manager vacillated over potential purchases and indeed never even got round to signing his own contract (which the club honoured anyway when he was dismissed). The chairman succinctly summed up. “I don’t think frankly he was up to the job.”

[darkman]

Graham was under way more pressure than Wenger now. We use to finish midtable, he played Keown in midfield, the football wasn't particular great to watch, he was stubborn and didnt spend money. He was considered a legend cos he won trophies and was a ArsenaI man but many felt it was time for a change. Regardless of the bung I dont think he would have rided it out, maybe not sacked, but their would have been a seperation sooner rather than later.

Rioch had to be ushered through the exit door before it was known exactly when his replacement would arrive. His last act of any note was to qualify for the Uefa Cup on the last day of the 1995-96 season with a somewhat fortuitous home victory against Bolton, although his season at the club had certainly seen him leave it in better shape than it was on his arrival. Not only were Dennis Bergkamp and David Platt now on the playing staff, but Arsenal had embraced a more attractive playing style.Despite this improvement on the field, off it an increasing dissatisfaction with the manager was emanating from all quarters. Peter Hill-Wood put the players’ point of view: “I think they can pick up the vibes quite easily. They respected George and probably were quite frightened of him, however tough he may have been.” Although Messrs Bergkamp and Platt had been captured (widely believed to be the result of David Dein’s efforts rather than the manager’s), as the director for team affairs, Dein became more and more frustrated by Rioch’s indecision. The manager vacillated over potential purchases and indeed never even got round to signing his own contract (which the club honoured anyway when he was dismissed). The chairman succinctly summed up. “I don’t think frankly he was up to the job.”

Bergkamp

I was able to have talks over the phone with Bruce Rioch and David Dein. Straight away I had a totally different, warm feeling to what I’d been used to at Inter, and although I knew English football was a gamble, I thought: ‘Yeah, let’s do it’.

Platt

"Arsenal made it clear that they really wanted me," Platt said. "My talks with Bruce Rioch were exceptional. We hit it off straight away. He is a great communicator with some exciting ideas on tactics and a definite view on how he sees me fitting into his plans.

[TF S4DK]

IT IS A murky grey area, upon which none of the principals is prepared to shed light, whether Bruce Rioch, who was Arsenal’s manager at the time, or David Dein, their mover and shaker behind the scenes, was responsible for their best piece of transfer business in modern times. The £7.5m that Bergkamp cost them was deemed to be a lot in June 1995 (Inter president Massimo Moratti chortled: “Arsenal will be lucky if he scores 10 goals this season”) but it looks like daylight robbery now. “It all happened very quickly — within a week,” the player said. “I was able to have talks over the phone with Bruce Rioch and David Dein. Straight away I had a totally different, warm feeling to what I’d been used to at Inter, and although I knew English football was a gamble, I thought: ‘Yeah, let’s do it’.”

Rioch's first move was to make one of Arsenal's finest signings by paying a club record £7.5 million for Bergkamp, an act for which Highbury fans will always be grateful. Rioch says: "I asked the coaching staff what we needed and they said that there was no need to touch the back end but that we might need someone up front because Alan Smith had retired and Kevin Campbell was about to join Nottingham Forest. When I reported back to Ken Friar and David Dein, they mentioned that Bergkamp might be available and what did I think? I said that I would take him like a shot, and we went out and got him. He was magnificent from the day he came in and he gave the team a massive lift. Even experienced men like Tony Adams and Steve Bould marvelled at the way he would stay out on the training ground long after everyone else had come in."

[darkman]

IT IS A murky grey area, upon which none of the principals is prepared to shed light, whether Bruce Rioch, who was Arsenal’s manager at the time, or David Dein, their mover and shaker behind the scenes, was responsible for their best piece of transfer business in modern times. The £7.5m that Bergkamp cost them was deemed to be a lot in June 1995 (Inter president Massimo Moratti chortled: “Arsenal will be lucky if he scores 10 goals this season”) but it looks like daylight robbery now. “It all happened very quickly — within a week,” the player said. “I was able to have talks over the phone with Bruce Rioch and David Dein. Straight away I had a totally different, warm feeling to what I’d been used to at Inter, and although I knew English football was a gamble, I thought: ‘Yeah, let’s do it’.”

Rioch's first move was to make one of Arsenal's finest signings by paying a club record £7.5 million for Bergkamp, an act for which Highbury fans will always be grateful. Rioch says: "I asked the coaching staff what we needed and they said that there was no need to touch the back end but that we might need someone up front because Alan Smith had retired and Kevin Campbell was about to join Nottingham Forest. When I reported back to Ken Friar and David Dein, they mentioned that Bergkamp might be available and what did I think? I said that I would take him like a shot, and we went out and got him. He was magnificent from the day he came in and he gave the team a massive lift. Even experienced men like Tony Adams and Steve Bould marvelled at the way he would stay out on the training ground long after everyone else had come in."

What do these quotes prove?

[TF S4DK]

The same as your last two, not much of anything, infact one of them is your quote in full. The second is Rioch hardly sounding like he was the driving force.

[TF S4DK]

Arsenal chairman Peter Hill-Wood has hit back in his war of words with former board member Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith.Hill-Wood was not amused and has issued a brusque summary of his own when summing up his thoughts on Lady Bracewell-Smith."I wouldn't pay any attention to it myself," Hill-Wood told the Daily Star. "I don't know why she is suddenly sounding off."She put something like £100million in her pocket and didn't earn a penny of it."She should keep herself quiet and not complain."

This guy...

[darkman]

The same as your last two, not much of anything, infact one of them is your quote in full. The second is Rioch hardly sounding like he was the driving force.

You made out Bergkamp was down to Dein aloneAlthough he AND Friar may have suggested him, Rioch still had to decide whether to go for himA player would be more interested in what the manager has to say rather than the vice-chaiman

[TF S4DK]

The general opinion is that it was... You haven't dismissed this notion, even the quote you posted started by saying its hard to establish for definitive.It was him and Friar, not Edelman. Dein brokered the deal. Rioch basically admits it wasnt a transfer target of his, he hadnt been tracking him for months, as he was the Bolton manager FFS. He hadnt even assessed the team by the time the transfer was completed. Rioch didnt even have a proper contract yet Arsenal let him have the most say in spending 7.5m (a huge amount in 95), alright mate! When said player was previously signed by Moratti, I doubt seeing Dein turn up in Milan worried him in the slightest.

[darkman]

The general opinion is that it was... You haven't dismissed this notion, even the quote you posted started by saying its hard to establish for definitive.It was him and Friar, not Edelman. Dein brokered the deal. Rioch basically admits it wasnt a transfer target of his, he hadnt been tracking him for months, he was the Bolton manager FFS. He hadnt even assessed the team by the time the transfer was completed.

Of course Dein brokered the deal, that's his responsibility but only because Rioch decided to go for him. He could have said no couldn't he? As for him not assessing the team

Before I arrived Alan Smith had retired and Kevin Campbell had decided he was leaving the club so we had lost two strikers straight away. I needed to bring some more firepower into the club so we drew up a list of players and Dennis was one of those who was available.

When said player was previously signed player by Moratti, I doubt seeing Dein turn up in Milan worried him in the slightest.

I don't give a sh*t who brought him to Inter. The player himself says talks with the manager helped make his decision yet it was all down to your idol in your eyes

[TF S4DK]

Darkman, what don't you get? Why do you think people give Dein the credit for signing Bergkamp? Cos they know he was gonna do it anyway...Lol, your worse than Tulse, post the full quote you prick.

Rioch says: "I asked the coaching staff what we needed and they said that there was no need to touch the back end but that we might need someone up front because Alan Smith had retired and Kevin Campbell was about to join Nottingham Forest. When I reported back to Ken Friar and David Dein, they mentioned that Bergkamp might be available and what did I think? I said that I would take him like a shot, and we went out and got him.

He hadn't had time to assess the squad as they was all on holiday! f*ck*ng hell, he was working off the recommendations of others. Rioch joined Arsenal in June, you know the the same month as Bergkamp joined. WHAT ARE YOU NOT f*ck*ng GETTING HERE!No the player said he spoke to the manager and Dein on the telephone, then he spoke to Dein in Milan.

[Young £]

lol

[darkman]

Darkman, what don't you get? Why do you think people give Dein the credit for signing Bergkamp? Cos they know he was gonna do it anyway...

No YOU think he would have.

they mentioned that Bergkamp might be available and what did I think? I said that I would take him like a shot, and we went out and got him.

He hadn't had time to assess the squad as they was all on holiday! f*ck*ng hell, he was working off the recommendations of others. Rioch joined Arsenal in June, you know the the same month as Bergkamp joined. WHAT ARE YOU NOT f*ck*ng GETTING HERE!

LOL so because the players are on holiday he doesn't know what squad he has? :lol:Rioch knew straight away he needed a stirker u plankI give up now. David Dein was the second coming of Jesus Christ

[Student of Accounting]

Rioch bought Bergkamp, every man and his dog knows this