Aziz Ansari accused of sexual misconduct

[Badman]

11 minutes ago, Thizz said:

Freeze/appease probably came into play.

 

Listen I agree she should have left but that's easy to say she probably looks back at it every day and wishes she did, Women aren't men fuck knows how their brains work.

 

There's only one person involved in this story who done wrong and it's not Grace. 

 

What I took out of it was that there was a breakdown in communication, huge amounts of passiveness and a lot of misunderstanding 

Nobody was really to blame imo but there are a lot of lessons to be learnt 

[Heero Yuy]

 

1 hour ago, Badman said:

What I took out of it was that there was a breakdown in communication, huge amounts of passiveness and a lot of misunderstanding 

Nobody was really to blame imo but there are a lot of lessons to be learnt 

 

C\S

Anasri hungry as fuck, but again why are his version of events any less, or more valid than hers.

 

[Thizz]

Where is his version of events?

 

He hasn't denied doing anything from that article in his statement.

 

Strange thing to do if that's not how it happened. 

[Benicio del Toney]

If Ansari kept saying "let's just chill on the couch"

Why would she leave initially?

It's only when she realised this guy couldn't chill she finally bounced.

I agree she probably went back to his for a sexual encounter but she has the right to change her mind at any point.

[Heero Yuy]

3 hours ago, Thizz said:

Where is his version of events?

 

He hasn't denied doing anything from that article in his statement.

 

Strange thing to do if that's not how it happened. 

 

When I said his version of events I mean him perceiving the event differently, he said that everything seemed fine to him. Like I keep saying two people can observe an event and have differing opinions on it. In walks of life we have a neutral mediator, someone there at the time who can objectively give an opinion on how they saw it.

Since there was no fly on the wall, we can only logically assume it was viewed differently at the time. 

I'm not even sure what's to deny on his part, Grace didn't say anything wasn't consensual, she hasn't accused him of anything. Like what point is she trying to prove, or statement is she trying to make?

 

[Wavant]

8 hours ago, Trap God said:

In all fairness

A man did the headie one lean on the couch and pointed to his d*ck

She started bobbing 

100% consensual

Certain times fat tings put it on me and I beat when I know I shouldn't

It is what it is

 

[local]

17 hours ago, Badman said:

What I took out of it was that there was a breakdown in communication, huge amounts of passiveness and a lot of misunderstanding 

Nobody was really to blame imo but there are a lot of lessons to be learnt 

just life init

ugly geezas gotta go through this typa shit every time they pull

can't be attracting these kinda nutjobs so im just straight up scumbag steve from the get go

you've seen the tinder screenshots

thats the way

[Grafter]

What happens if its the same situation but in her house?

People say in this situation y she never just leave

 

What if he was actin like that in her house? She then has to insist that he leaves?

[Heero Yuy]

Surely she asks him to leave?

[Grafter]

Yh but I'm letting you know as a woman, immediately vulnerable (yes u can hit him with something or call police or shout but before u do any of that he can get u)

If a man is being over over like that and u did already say something like "dont want it to feel forced"

Then why would a woman think hes gna leave when asked? There's going to be an element of fear now.

I think that situations like this cant just be called o well life

I dont think we should be in these situations as matter of normality (his house or her house), we do need progression on this...

/

And thinking about it jus as food for thought an showin u lot what it's like to always be aware of your physical vulnerability as a woman

I once went to a man's house as a teenager. Absolutely no intention of doin anything with him, it was a trick BUT I was over confident an not thinking properly an assumed I be fine since i wasn't far from home (silly logic)

Once in the house this man started makin verbal indications that he wants to beat so i very brashly shut him down. Everything changed, he said loudly "u cant just shoot a man down like that". I was thinking shit shit hes blocking the doorway, how am I gettin out of here unscathed, what if i jus run past him? How many doors? 

I got out unscathed but spent maybe an hr or more listenin to his life story until i could gauge the right time to leave without offending him any further...

[Badman]

3 hours ago, Heero Yuy said:

Surely she asks him to leave?

Faaaam

[Grafter]

13 minutes ago, Badman said:

Faaaam

Did u read my nex post or?

 

[Badman]

3 hours ago, Grafter said:

Yh but I'm letting you know as a woman, immediately vulnerable (yes u can hit him with something or call police or shout but before u do any of that he can get u)

If a man is being over over like that and u did already say something like "dont want it to feel forced"

Then why would a woman think hes gna leave when asked? There's going to be an element of fear now.

I think that situations like this cant just be called o well life

I dont think we should be in these situations as matter of normality (his house or her house), we do need progression on this...

/

And thinking about it jus as food for thought an showin u lot what it's like to always be aware of your physical vulnerability as a woman

I once went to a man's house as a teenager. Absolutely no intention of doin anything with him, it was a trick BUT I was over confident an not thinking properly an assumed I be fine since i wasn't far from home (silly logic)

Once in the house this man started makin verbal indications that he wants to beat so i very brashly shut him down. Everything changed, he said loudly "u cant just shoot a man down like that". I was thinking shit shit hes blocking the doorway, how am I gettin out of here unscathed, what if i jus run past him? How many doors? 

I got out unscathed but spent maybe an hr or more listenin to his life story until i could gauge the right time to leave without offending him any further...

If anything you were being passive and perhaps over polite

This tells me you were lacking social skills to deal with a scenario like that as people dont often realise that being indirect can be misinterpreted as rude and shameful if ego is mixed with rejection.

I am sure you would have learned your lesson by now and prevent yourself from getting in such a situation let alone going to someones house that you dont know that well and have no intention of doing anything with.

In conclusion (In general) education is key rather than blaming and applying labels 

[Badman]

3 minutes ago, Grafter said:

Did u read my nex post or?

 

Context wasnt really needed imo

Girl - I do not feel comfortable and would like to leave....

Done 

[Grafter]

Yemoh

I shut him down an made it clear i wasnt interested. Did u not read the bit where he shouted how i cant shoot a man down like that?

 

It is precisely my social skills that got me out of the situation

This what gets on my nerve, i hear it from male family members to us females too. U lot get angry an wamma blame is an be like 'you should have just blabla'

Im trying to explain to you that in our interactions with men there is always physical vulnerability. Which leads to reactions out of fear... People freezin, hangin around longer than what seems logical etc. I dno how else to make u understand. 

If I had got up an said "look sir, i am not interested and im leavin now" there was every chance of being attacked since he already displayed agression at my dismissal of him

In the interest of self preservation i did the best i could.

I had to ingratiate myself to him, make him feel that I wasnt scared of him in order to get out whilst maintaining a safe distance

 

I saw him a couple years later an he grabbed me. I knew from he shouted about shootin him down i was completely at risk

[Grafter]

5 minutes ago, Badman said:

Context wasnt really needed imo

Girl - I do not feel comfortable and would like to leave....

Done 

No yemoh

That's my point entirely

Maybe in ur house its done

Im sayin if a man has already acted outside of the norm or outside of what u expected from him, its a tricky situation.

My fear in just gettin up an walkin out was that he would grab or clobber me on the way past him. He was clearly sittin in the door way blocking my exit.

 

You have to accept the value of the unknown and accept not everyman is the same as u. There is a huge range of characters out there an women on the whole make moves which mitigate against physical harm on balance

[Grafter]

Aaand im not sayin the girl here was definitely scared im just sayin why do we have to be put in them situs as a matter of normality 

Yes u learn as u get older but anything can happen before u learn the right lessons.

 

[Grafter]

14 minutes ago, Badman said:

If anything you were being passive and perhaps over polite

This tells me you were lacking social skills to deal with a scenario like that as people dont often realise that being indirect can be misinterpreted as rude and shameful if ego is mixed with rejection.

I am sure you would have learned your lesson by now and prevent yourself from getting in such a situation let alone going to someones house that you dont know that well and have no intention of doing anything with.

In conclusion (In general) education is key rather than blaming and applying labels 

Already said it was a silly young minded decision

But the fact of the matter is these things happen an we shouldn't just blame the woman for bein in the situation in the first place. That man is accountable for his actions whether he read right or misread

People go on tinder dates every damn day in the houses of strangers. This happens

[Badman]

28 minutes ago, Grafter said:

No yemoh

That's my point entirely

Maybe in ur house its done

Im sayin if a man has already acted outside of the norm or outside of what u expected from him, its a tricky situation.

My fear in just gettin up an walkin out was that he would grab or clobber me on the way past him. He was clearly sittin in the door way blocking my exit.

 

You have to accept the value of the unknown and accept not everyman is the same as u. There is a huge range of characters out there an women on the whole make moves which mitigate against physical harm on balance

In your scenario did you at any point say the words I mentioned? 

"I do not feel comfortable and would like to leave...."

 

?

[Badman]

39 minutes ago, Grafter said:

Yemoh

I shut him down an made it clear i wasnt interested. Did u not read the bit where he shouted how i cant shoot a man down like that?

 

It is precisely my social skills that got me out of the situation

This what gets on my nerve, i hear it from male family members to us females too. U lot get angry an wamma blame is an be like 'you should have just blabla'

Im trying to explain to you that in our interactions with men there is always physical vulnerability. Which leads to reactions out of fear... People freezin, hangin around longer than what seems logical etc. I dno how else to make u understand. 

If I had got up an said "look sir, i am not interested and im leavin now" there was every chance of being attacked since he already displayed agression at my dismissal of him

In the interest of self preservation i did the best i could.

I had to ingratiate myself to him, make him feel that I wasnt scared of him in order to get out whilst maintaining a safe distance

 

I saw him a couple years later an he grabbed me. I knew from he shouted about shootin him down i was completely at risk

I understand this part I wasnt trying to invalidate it, however unless you have the skills to deal with a situation where you are physically venerable its probably better to not allow yourself to get into that situation 

I know plenty of females that handle themselves well in such a scenario 

Obviously I am not talking about a guy physically forcing themselves onto a female, that is not what we are talking about in this discussion 

[Grafter]

I said to him very brashly I wasnt interested in fuckin him

I don't get why u keep missin that? 

That is the whole reason he switched and told me i CANT shoot him down like that

Why cant I? Why whats he gna do about that then? How do i continue to reject him (i.e.e state that i am leavin) without angerin him further. After hes shouted im thinking ok what's next then. Who the hell responds that way to rejection? A dangerous man thats who

 

These situations happen and it doesn't matter how socially adept a woman can be. you cannot always speech your way out of a situation and the fear is just that. Not only what do i say but what if what I say doesnt work? Is goin to work? Is it worth the risk? Can i make this situation better in a different way? 

 

And in telling me his life story he was not accepting my initial rejection. He kept Trying to entice me by offering material things an trips to Miami. 

In your scenario yemoh, i reject him directly and he accepts, moves out of the way of the door ( which he deliberately sat in the entire time) and i can leave

 

Please do tell me how I should have handled that situation differently once in the house? Im listening

No good tellin anyone they shouldn't have been somewhere, this is life, anytime its ur first time in anyone's house you are takin a risk whether you think u kno them or not. Its an irrelevant statement

Im asking why cant we have a conversation where this over zealous, ' hungry' behaviour is called what it is which is unacceptable and frankly intimidating

Why cant we as a society move past this? Why we have to deal with that? Why do some men not see signals, hear words, feel entitled?

[Badman]

You didnt answer my question though,

Not whether you told him you didnt wanted to fuck him but whether you told him you wanted to leave...

if you asked that then I could understand your point but it doesn't seem like you unequivocally emphasised that you wanted to leave which is probably the crux of the matter as it gives off mixed messages 

which leads me to my next point...the game, which ill explain next by addressing what you said below

 

16 minutes ago, Grafter said:

 

Im asking why cant we have a conversation where this over zealous, ' hungry' behaviour is called what it is which is unacceptable and frankly intimidating

Why cant we as a society move past this? Why we have to deal with that? Why do some men not see signals, hear words, feel entitled?

 

More time this is all a part of the game. Its animalistic for males to chase females even if the females are not forthcoming, Its part of courtship to chase females and eventually attempt to have sex with them

To apply that to a typical situation, how many times have I had a female in my bedroom and shes going on long and I end up beating? more time the girl admits that she was just playing hard to get, but they always intended to have sex

Heck even some females like that dominating shit

I have even been in situations where it starts off awkward and perhaps the female is uncomfortable but I am able to pattern it and get the female to relax....am I hungry or over zealous to be doing that?  

I dare to ask whether you understand this concept but something tells me that either you are gonna act ignorant to all this, or as most females would, they would act a certain way about it but deep down they understand and acknowledge the game

So in light of this, can you at least understand where I am coming from? can you also understand the difficulties of being in a situation as a man? considering a female 9/10 will not initiate sex, and 99/100 will not come out and say they want sex, can you not at least see the difficulties of reading certain messages?

 

[Agony]

Quote

 

Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

By BARI WEISS JAN. 15, 2018

 

 

Aziz Ansari after winning the Golden Globe for Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series — Musical or Comedy this month. CreditFrederic J. Brown/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

I’m apparently the victim of sexual assault. And if you’re a sexually active woman in the 21st century, chances are that you are, too.

That is what I learned from the “exposé” of Aziz Ansari published last weekend by the feminist website Babe — arguably the worst thing that has happened to the #MeToo movement since it began in October. It transforms what ought to be a movement for women’s empowerment into an emblem for female helplessness.

The headline primes the reader to gird for the very worst: “I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life.” Like everyone else, I clicked.

The victim in this 3,000-word article is called Grace — not her real name — and her experience with Mr. Ansari began at a 2017 Emmys after-party. As recounted by the woman to the reporter Katie Way, she approached him, and they bonded over their admiration of the same vintage camera.

The woman was at the party with someone else, but she and Mr. Ansari exchanged numbers and soon arranged a date in Manhattan.

After arriving at his TriBeCa apartment on the appointed evening — she was “excited,” having carefully chosen her outfit after consulting with friends — they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.” Yes, we are apparently meant to read the nonconsensual wine choice as foreboding.

They went out to dinner nearby and then returned to Mr. Ansari’s apartment. As she tells it, Mr. Ansari was far too eager to get back to his place after he paid for dinner: “Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we’re out of there.” Another sign of his apparent boorishness.

She complimented Mr. Ansari’s kitchen countertops. He then made a move, asking her to sit on top of them. They started kissing. He undressed her and then himself.

In the 30 or so minutes that followed — recounted beat by cringe-inducing beat — they hooked up. Mr. Ansari persistently tried to have penetrative sex with her, and the woman says she was deeply uncomfortable throughout. At various points, she told the reporter, she attempted to voice her hesitation, but Mr. Ansari ignored her signals.

At last, she uttered the word “no” for the first time during their encounter, to Mr. Ansari’s suggestion that they have sex in front of a mirror. He responded, “‘How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?’”

They dressed, sat on the couch and watched “Seinfeld.” She told him, “You guys are all the same.” He called her an Uber. She cried on the way home. Fin.

If you are wondering what about this evening constituted the “worst night” of this woman’s life, or why it is being framed as a #MeToo story by a feminist website, you probably feel as confused as Mr. Ansari did the next day. “It was fun meeting you last night,” he texted.

“Last night might’ve been fun for you, but it wasn’t for me,” she responded. “You ignored clear nonverbal cues; you kept going with advances. You had to have noticed I was uncomfortable.” He replied with an apology.

Read her text message again.

Put in other words: I am angry that you weren’t able to read my mind.

It is worth carefully studying this story. Encoded in it are new yet deeply retrograde ideas about what constitutes consent — and what constitutes sexual violence.

We are told by the reporter that the woman “says she used verbal and nonverbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was.” She adds that “whether Ansari didn’t notice Grace’s reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say.” We are told that “he wouldn’t let hermove away from him,” in the encounter.

Yet Mr. Ansari, in a statement responding to the account, said that “by all indications” the encounter was “completely consensual.”

I am a proud feminist, and this is what I thought while reading the article:

If you are hanging out naked with a man, it’s safe to assume he is going to try to have sex with you.

If the failure to choose a pinot noir over a pinot grigio offends you, you can leave right then and there.

If you don’t like the way your date hustles through paying the check, you can say, “I’ve had a lovely evening and I’m going home now.”

If you go home with him and discover he’s a terrible kisser, say, “I’m out.”

If you start to hook up and don’t like the way he smells or the way he talks (or doesn’t talk), end it.

If he pressures you to do something you don’t want to do, use a four-letter word, stand up on your two legs and walk out his door.

Aziz Ansari sounds as if he were aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn’t it heartbreaking and depressing that men — especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists — so often act this way in private? Shouldn’t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn’t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men’s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their “nonverbal cues.” It is for women to be more verbal. It’s to say, “This is what turns me on.” It’s to say, “I don’t want to do that.” And, yes, sometimes it means saying goodbye.

The single most distressing thing to me about this story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. The woman is merely acted upon.

All of this put me in mind of another article published this weekend, this one by the novelist and feminist icon Margaret Atwood. “My fundamental position is that women are human beings,” she writes. “Nor do I believe that women are children, incapable of agency or of making moral decisions. If they were, we’re back to the 19th century, and women should not own property, have credit cards, have access to higher education, control their own reproduction or vote. There are powerful groups in North America pushing this agenda, but they are not usually considered feminists.”

Except, increasingly, they are.

The article in Babe was met with digital hosannas by young feminists who insisted that consent is consent only if it is affirmative, active, continuous and — and this is the word most used — enthusiastic. Consent isn’t the only thing they are radically redefining. A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American men think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third of millennial men and women say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment.

To judge from social media reaction, they also see a flagrant abuse of power in this sexual encounter. Yes, Mr. Ansari is a wealthy celebrity with a Netflix show. But he had no actual power over the woman — professionally or otherwise. And lumping him in with the same movement that brought down men who ran movie studios and forced themselves on actresses, or the factory-floor supervisors who demanded sex from female workers, trivializes what #MeToo first stood for.

I’m sorry this woman had this experience. I too have had lousy romantic encounters, as has every adult woman I know. I have regretted these encounters, and not said anything at all. I have regretted them and said so, as she did. And I know I am lucky that these unpleasant moments were far from being anything approaching assault or rape, or even the worst night of my life.

But the response to her story makes me think that many of my fellow feminists might insist that my experience was just that, and for me to define it otherwise is nothing more than my internalized misogyny.

There is a useful term for what this woman experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued as if they’re in a pornographic film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go.

Correction: January 16, 2018 

An earlier version of this article incorrectly characterized a recent poll about sexual harassment. The poll reported that 25 percent of millennial-age men thought that asking to buy someone a drink was harassment, not 25 percent of millennial-age women.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-ansari-babe-sexual-harassment.html

 

 

[Grafter]

I don't understand why you're deliberately ignoring his response to my initial rejection?

He didn't say it playfully or lightly, he shouted aggressively

Do you really believe that I should have taken the risk to further reject him by stating I was leaving at that moment whilst he is also physically in my way? Do you not perceive the danger in that situation?

I have to say you are the first person to completely dismiss this man's behaviour in this story and it's impact on my subsequent behaviour. Literally the first.

 

/

What you are talking about here is different. Of course sexual interaction is nuanced. I personally do not reject a man with the initial intention of giving in anyway. As someone already said a woman or anyone is entitled to change their mind at any time so its irrelevant.

This is about not being selfish and having respect for each other. You should be able to understand how someone is rejecting you and discern the situation. I actually dont think its difficult, you know when its good to go an when its not..an if people do find jt difficult then it's a honest conversation society needs to have

An really, if ur not sure dont bother, if she is on it she will come to you, thats real game

I think its dangerous to think of women as people who will more often than not reject u but if u got game an u keep tryin she gna fuck u. Mature men know in those situations if they are really honest when its just time to give up