The Official Manchester United Thread

[Benicio del Toney]

Ok Kompressor I hear you and you're right concerning a certain type of player.

I just don't think Ashley Young is that certain type of player who has those options available to him as the players you mentioned.

The way I'm thinking is why didn't we get Hazard while he was young and unknown?

Then I'm thinking well, we went and got Pogba but now it's come to a situation where he is nearly out of contract and doesn't want to stay because he is getting no sniff of first team football.

Hazard would not be as good as he is if he wasn't blooded as early as he was, he was, now he has a name and now the big dogs are sniffing and we can't compete, so what does Sir Alex want at the end of the day?

If we got Hazard young he would be in Pogba's situation today and that is nonsense to me.

[O Fenomeno]

If Wenger didn't get Hazard when was a teenager what makes you think Sir Alex would of?

[Kompressor]

the only players at united on more than 100k basic are rio & rooney. Im pretty sure even ash youngs 130k isnt 130k basic, it includes his signing on fee and a lot of other bonuses

Vidic?

but anyway this answers Toney's question as to why the name Manchester United alone isn't enough to entice players, especially top quality foreign ones. if we had that extra 40 million a season to spend on wages who knows what sort ofplayers we'd be signing and what risks we'd be taking,

to go back to the issue of youth and risk

i heard someone once describe Young as a decent effective on paper and direct player, but very un sexy and un imaginative in terms of play and approach,

Valencia you could argue is a right sided version of this also , these players epitomise United right now tbh whether we like it or not,

Our club has been steeped in a tradition of if their good enough their old enough except if the players around them aren't good enough or trusted enough to carry these young players through.

the fact that teams are no longer scared of United even at OT is another reason why the likes of Pogba will find meaningful minutes hard to come by,

these issues are all linked together, if we look at one we have to look at them all,

[TF S4DK]

Like for example we beat you to Ramsey because we offered #1 and #3, and since then Fergie has never made the mistake of letting us get the opportunity to talk to a player i.e Phil Jones who again we offered #1 and #3.

Even Nasri, you lot all claim it was City's money but I think it was more Arsenal's refusal to deal with you and I think Nasri was more inclined to you over City for #2.

These guys are selling this creating history shit to justify their moves, but I dont buy it for a second.

[Kompressor]

In a romantic world the name Manchester United should be enough to entice players to sign, but in reality we're not living in the 90's anymore,

to sign quality you need to already posses quality to be honest, If United had turned round in the Rooney saga and done what i and many others wanted and told him where to go with his wage demands, it wouldve sent a message to prospective players that you know what,

yes is a great club with a glorious history but when it comes to the elite wages we simply wont pay them, this here on its on in the late 90's?early 00's wouldn't have been a problem, but in 2012 success isn't a given as much as it was for manchester United.

Players want 3 things generally, 1, to play football, 2, to win as much as possible, 3, to earn as much as possible, (this is not in order by the way.)

if we turn round and say to these players right Eden we can offer you number 1 of these things and possibly number 2. but for number 3 we cant help you,

he'll say, ok, i've head your offer now and now i will go and speak with The representitives from across the City.

City will turn round and say we'll offer you number 1, definitley number 3 and if anyone starts sniffing around you we'll beat their offer by 10 grand, and we'll spend what we have to deliver number 2,

if Your a young player with absolutely no preference between either United or City who are you going to sign for?

United have to at least appear to be willing to offer their big players top dollar or we'll have an Arsenal situation where after a while players look over at their mates at City who are earning double the money, playing in a team full of superstars and winning the league and going head to head with the marquee clubs for other stars and they'll want out.

The John Obi Mikel situation was a watershed,

Robben likewise.

the days where the name Manchester United could gazump other teams like when we signed Roy Keane are done mate,

Hazard doesn't want to come to a club where he can walk round the museum and see a glorious history, he wants to go somewhere to make history. right now, thats more likely to happen at a club like city, the fact they're willing to pay him probably 30% more than we are only increases their chances,

disclaimer, Hazard is only a example hopefully he values our history just like the fans do. but i wouldn't bet on it tbh.

Rooney was prepared to go to City, and the difference in stature historically between United and City is a lot clearer to him,

I think Manchester United name should still be romantic enough and if people dont think it is then tbh they are selling the club short...

Until this season (which isn't even done yet) Man United could very justifably offer #2.

if your a young player 17/18 and your looking to move to manchester and have a great next 12 years of your career, your telling me you'd pick red over blue?

City is a safe bet, they have money spilling out from under the bed and instead of wrapping food in tin foil the use £50 notes, whereas we are the guy who is looking down the back of the sofa for any spare change, and we haven't even finished paying of said sofa.

[TF S4DK]

If Wenger didn't get Hazard when was a teenager what makes you think Sir Alex would of?

His board would have paid the fee & his squad wasn't as unbalanced where people (fans & players alike) question the wisdom in signing another teenager...

[Kompressor]

who will win more in the next 6 years, city or United.

no romantic answers just look at the facts i.e current playing squads, forecasted spending, and whatever else you may want to add in .

[Guest M12]

sadly manchester city. im just waiting for the tide to turn around the country as the red shirts get traded in for blue ones and people start talking about how their dad used to live in manchester and they support them because he does.

[TF S4DK]

I dunno if Fergie got time for them young foreign prodigys. Thats why the Pogba situation doesn't amaze me one bit...

Before people say Ronaldo, Ronaldo by everyone standards has always been commented as a somewhat model pro.

That said aaron Ramsey would be a better player under Ferguson than he's turning out for Wenger, I'm 10000000000% sure of this.

[TF S4DK]

who will win more in the next 6 years, city or United.

no romantic answers just look at the facts i.e current playing squads, forecasted spending, and whatever else you may want to add in .

Thats not fair cos we know in 6 Fergie will defo be gone.

In the next 3 I still see United winning more than City.

[Kompressor]

Like for example we beat you to Ramsey because we offered #1 and #3, and since then Fergie has never made the mistake of letting us get the opportunity to talk to a player i.e Phil Jones who again we offered #1 and #3.

Even Nasri, you lot all claim it was City's money but I think it was more Arsenal's refusal to deal with you and I think Nasri was more inclined to you over City for #2.

These guys are selling this creating history sh*t to justify their moves, but I dont buy it for a second.

tbh its widely thought that the sticking point in the Ramsey deal was we wanted to send him back on loan to cardiff whereas Wenger apparently told him he would instantly be involved in first team action, also at the time Arsenal were in a much better shape,

Phil Jones choosing united over Arsenal was always a no brainer, Arsenal seemingly on a steeper decline, two big players on the way out, he's from Lancashire, and he gets to move to the champions and champions league finalist.

The not snapping up Hazard thing isn't something that only Fergie is guilty off, I'm sure probably every manager is kicking themselves about.

and also considering United chief scout is a relative i dont see any improvements in that area coming soon either.

[Kompressor]

sadly manchester city. im just waiting for the tide to turn around the country as the red shirts get traded in for blue ones and people start talking about how their dad used to live in manchester and they support them because he does.

precisely

who will win more in the next 6 years, city or United.

no romantic answers just look at the facts i.e current playing squads, forecasted spending, and whatever else you may want to add in .

Thats not fair cos we know in 6 Fergie will defo be gone.

In the next 3 I still see United winning more than City.

another huge factor, plus fergie has already championed David Moyes to be the successor, i can just see the likes of Goezte and Hazard licking their lips at that,

whereas City could potentially have their pick of managers and offer him a open war chest.

[Guest M12]

In a romantic world the name Manchester United should be enough to entice players to sign, but in reality we're not living in the 90's anymore,

to sign quality you need to already posses quality to be honest, If United had turned round in the Rooney saga and done what i and many others wanted and told him where to go with his wage demands, it wouldve sent a message to prospective players that you know what,

yes is a great club with a glorious history but when it comes to the elite wages we simply wont pay them, this here on its on in the late 90's?early 00's wouldn't have been a problem, but in 2012 success isn't a given as much as it was for manchester United.

Players want 3 things generally, 1, to play football, 2, to win as much as possible, 3, to earn as much as possible, (this is not in order by the way.)

if we turn round and say to these players right Eden we can offer you number 1 of these things and possibly number 2. but for number 3 we cant help you,

he'll say, ok, i've head your offer now and now i will go and speak with The representitives from across the City.

City will turn round and say we'll offer you number 1, definitley number 3 and if anyone starts sniffing around you we'll beat their offer by 10 grand, and we'll spend what we have to deliver number 2,

if Your a young player with absolutely no preference between either United or City who are you going to sign for?

United have to at least appear to be willing to offer their big players top dollar or we'll have an Arsenal situation where after a while players look over at their mates at City who are earning double the money, playing in a team full of superstars and winning the league and going head to head with the marquee clubs for other stars and they'll want out.

The John Obi Mikel situation was a watershed,

Robben likewise.

the days where the name Manchester United could gazump other teams like when we signed Roy Keane are done mate,

Hazard doesn't want to come to a club where he can walk round the museum and see a glorious history, he wants to go somewhere to make history. right now, thats more likely to happen at a club like city, the fact they're willing to pay him probably 30% more than we are only increases their chances,

disclaimer, Hazard is only a example hopefully he values our history just like the fans do. but i wouldn't bet on it tbh.

Rooney was prepared to go to City, and the difference in stature historically between United and City is a lot clearer to him,

I think Manchester United name should still be romantic enough and if people dont think it is then tbh they are selling the club short...

Until this season (which isn't even done yet) Man United could very justifably offer #2.

if your a young player 17/18 and your looking to move to manchester and have a great next 12 years of your career, your telling me you'd pick red over blue?

City is a safe bet, they have money spilling out from under the bed and instead of wrapping food in tin foil the use £50 notes, whereas we are the guy who is looking down the back of the sofa for any spare change, and we haven't even finished paying of said sofa.

As a 17/18 year old you should pick united all day. You will get minutes faster and are more likely to be in and around the 1st team squad. Welbeck, Smalling,Jones, Clevz are all 19-22 and are playing a LOT of 1st team football. If you cant see that as a 17 year old and see there is a path to follow youre stupid. City dont have any players round that age sniffing round the 1st team and its only going to worse the more they win.

As a 24 year old + who wants to be a champion and be part of a team that writes history, you pick man city. you can earn big money, improve alongside the worlds best and play CL football etc.

But a real raw youngster should go to united everytime.

[Kompressor]

if we win more than City in the next 3 years it will be down to their ineptness not our quality or greatness,

the tittle should've been wrapped up last month if not earlier.

[Kompressor]

In a romantic world the name Manchester United should be enough to entice players to sign, but in reality we're not living in the 90's anymore,

to sign quality you need to already posses quality to be honest, If United had turned round in the Rooney saga and done what i and many others wanted and told him where to go with his wage demands, it wouldve sent a message to prospective players that you know what,

yes is a great club with a glorious history but when it comes to the elite wages we simply wont pay them, this here on its on in the late 90's?early 00's wouldn't have been a problem, but in 2012 success isn't a given as much as it was for manchester United.

Players want 3 things generally, 1, to play football, 2, to win as much as possible, 3, to earn as much as possible, (this is not in order by the way.)

if we turn round and say to these players right Eden we can offer you number 1 of these things and possibly number 2. but for number 3 we cant help you,

he'll say, ok, i've head your offer now and now i will go and speak with The representitives from across the City.

City will turn round and say we'll offer you number 1, definitley number 3 and if anyone starts sniffing around you we'll beat their offer by 10 grand, and we'll spend what we have to deliver number 2,

if Your a young player with absolutely no preference between either United or City who are you going to sign for?

United have to at least appear to be willing to offer their big players top dollar or we'll have an Arsenal situation where after a while players look over at their mates at City who are earning double the money, playing in a team full of superstars and winning the league and going head to head with the marquee clubs for other stars and they'll want out.

The John Obi Mikel situation was a watershed,

Robben likewise.

the days where the name Manchester United could gazump other teams like when we signed Roy Keane are done mate,

Hazard doesn't want to come to a club where he can walk round the museum and see a glorious history, he wants to go somewhere to make history. right now, thats more likely to happen at a club like city, the fact they're willing to pay him probably 30% more than we are only increases their chances,

disclaimer, Hazard is only a example hopefully he values our history just like the fans do. but i wouldn't bet on it tbh.

Rooney was prepared to go to City, and the difference in stature historically between United and City is a lot clearer to him,

I think Manchester United name should still be romantic enough and if people dont think it is then tbh they are selling the club short...

Until this season (which isn't even done yet) Man United could very justifably offer #2.

if your a young player 17/18 and your looking to move to manchester and have a great next 12 years of your career, your telling me you'd pick red over blue?

City is a safe bet, they have money spilling out from under the bed and instead of wrapping food in tin foil the use £50 notes, whereas we are the guy who is looking down the back of the sofa for any spare change, and we haven't even finished paying of said sofa.

As a 17/18 year old you should pick united all day. You will get minutes faster and are more likely to be in and around the 1st team squad. Welbeck, Smalling,Jones, Clevz are all 19-22 and are playing a LOT of 1st team football. If you cant see that as a 17 year old and see there is a path to follow youre stupid. City dont have any players round that age sniffing round the 1st team and its only going to worse the more they win.

As a 24 year old + who wants to be a champion and be part of a team that writes history, you pick man city. you can earn big money, improve alongside the worlds best and play CL football etc.

But a real raw youngster should go to united everytime.

fair enough, maybe i over exaggerated the age thing,

but your bang on with the 24 year old statement. it could even be argued that united isn't the place to be if your 17/18 though, just ask Pogba.

[Anderson]

The way I'm thinking is why didn't we get Hazard while he was young and unknown?

[O Fenomeno]

The thing is Hazard has always been known

[Benicio del Toney]

it could even be argued that united isn't the place to be if your 17/18 though, just ask Pogba.

Real Talk.

There are a host of better clubs to be at for a 17/18 year old.

[Anderson]

In a romantic world the name Manchester United should be enough to entice players to sign, but in reality we're not living in the 90's anymore,

to sign quality you need to already posses quality to be honest, If United had turned round in the Rooney saga and done what i and many others wanted and told him where to go with his wage demands, it wouldve sent a message to prospective players that you know what,

yes is a great club with a glorious history but when it comes to the elite wages we simply wont pay them, this here on its on in the late 90's?early 00's wouldn't have been a problem, but in 2012 success isn't a given as much as it was for manchester United.

Players want 3 things generally, 1, to play football, 2, to win as much as possible, 3, to earn as much as possible, (this is not in order by the way.)

if we turn round and say to these players right Eden we can offer you number 1 of these things and possibly number 2. but for number 3 we cant help you,

he'll say, ok, i've head your offer now and now i will go and speak with The representitives from across the City.

City will turn round and say we'll offer you number 1, definitley number 3 and if anyone starts sniffing around you we'll beat their offer by 10 grand, and we'll spend what we have to deliver number 2,

if Your a young player with absolutely no preference between either United or City who are you going to sign for?

United have to at least appear to be willing to offer their big players top dollar or we'll have an Arsenal situation where after a while players look over at their mates at City who are earning double the money, playing in a team full of superstars and winning the league and going head to head with the marquee clubs for other stars and they'll want out.

The John Obi Mikel situation was a watershed,

Robben likewise.

the days where the name Manchester United could gazump other teams like when we signed Roy Keane are done mate,

Hazard doesn't want to come to a club where he can walk round the museum and see a glorious history, he wants to go somewhere to make history. right now, thats more likely to happen at a club like city, the fact they're willing to pay him probably 30% more than we are only increases their chances,

disclaimer, Hazard is only a example hopefully he values our history just like the fans do. but i wouldn't bet on it tbh.

Rooney was prepared to go to City, and the difference in stature historically between United and City is a lot clearer to him,

I think Manchester United name should still be romantic enough and if people dont think it is then tbh they are selling the club short...

Until this season (which isn't even done yet) Man United could very justifably offer #2.

if your a young player 17/18 and your looking to move to manchester and have a great next 12 years of your career, your telling me you'd pick red over blue?

City is a safe bet, they have money spilling out from under the bed and instead of wrapping food in tin foil the use £50 notes, whereas we are the guy who is looking down the back of the sofa for any spare change, and we haven't even finished paying of said sofa.

As a 17/18 year old you should pick united all day. You will get minutes faster and are more likely to be in and around the 1st team squad. Welbeck, Smalling,Jones, Clevz are all 19-22 and are playing a LOT of 1st team football. If you cant see that as a 17 year old and see there is a path to follow youre stupid. City dont have any players round that age sniffing round the 1st team and its only going to worse the more they win.

As a 24 year old + who wants to be a champion and be part of a team that writes history, you pick man city. you can earn big money, improve alongside the worlds best and play CL football etc.

But a real raw youngster should go to united everytime.

I agree you SHOULD go to United but look at it from the players point of view. A foreigner who has no connection to either club, Manchester United is not a bigger lure than City to them at all im afraid.

Youve got everyone at City telling you how good you are and how youll be pushing the first team, on top of the money theyll pay you, on top of the players they have and are looking to sign, and plus the fact there probably gonna be league champions....

LOL, what 17 year old is gonna pick us first? realistically?

[Guest M12]

it could even be argued that united isn't the place to be if your 17/18 though, just ask Pogba.

Real Talk.

There are a host of better clubs to be at for a 17/18 year old.

i semi agree but manchester city certainly isnt one of them

[TF S4DK]

You say Phil Jones was a no brainer but United pushed out the boat financially for both Ashley Young & Phil Jones to guarantee it would happen. So much so that sometimes some of the figures being banded around some of us find hard to believe that they are paid that and are often cited as yard stick for your current players new deals and seemingly your club dont want to repeat those deals, almost as if an after thought has been had and said maybe we shouldn't have given so and so that to get the deal concluded...

For United to be worried about losing players financially to Arsenal and Liverpool who as you said where in a bad state compared to the then Champions and Champions League finalists, makes me wonder what whoever over there is selling and how is he selling it? and should Manchester United even be signing these players...

[Benicio del Toney]

The not snapping up Hazard thing isn't something that only Fergie is guilty off, I'm sure probably every manager is kicking themselves about.

It's not the snapping up that is the issue, it's the developing and progression.

[Guest M12]

The thing a lot of people are underestimating as well is Manchester United are a family club. Nobody is bigger than the gaffer and they source players who have the right kind of attitude, they will get their heads down and do what the manager says without question. They won't throw strops and they will follow the clubs rules. That has been one of the benchmarks of our success in recent years.

Manchester City have amazing talent but they are all in essence mercenaries who dont have a particularly strong bond with each other or their manager. You see from the amount of times you see them all fighting in training or the way guys like dzeko, tevez and balo react when they get subbed, that they arent in it together at all. Players like Yaya Toure, Aguero, Kompany and Silva have glossed over it because they are genuinely good hard working players with the right attitudes but theres a lot of "bad eggs" in that camp and if they want to be really successful they need to eradicate them.

[TF S4DK]

There was no way Manchester United was signing Eden Hazard.

I repeat he's a (now) 21 year old Belgian playing in France for Lille. Now go back two years... The only big English club that really would have taken that gamble was Arsenal.

Arsenal's board refused to pay the price quouted, I believe 16m, and it was suggesed to Wenger by his own scouts and even Lille's manager that Eden still has some growing up to do as a man and a footballer and Lille was still the perfect place for him to do it.

What fucked everybody up on the Hazard trail a year later, was them winning the double last year. He was suppose to stay off-radar. Hence Lille getting caught out with the Cabaye release clause, Gervinho being last year, etc...

Same problems Montpellier gonna have especially if they dont win the league.

[Kompressor]

fights in training are meh,

Ex United players have come out and said that was a weekly occurance at the cliff and Carrington,

the big thing is that the news never got out,

also tbh, i see no difference in essence in Toure signing for City and Nani signing for us, neither of them gave a sh*t at the time of signing, but they both signed for increased wages and a promise of success,

if top players only ever joined the great teams the same teams who were great at the start of time, would be still up there now. stuff rolls in cycles, its City's time now, in 20 years they may be another great team in Europe, has to start somewhere, and due to the time its done with money