Champions League Final 2011 Build up thread

[Marly Mar]

Messi hat-trick@33/1 from William HillI am going to put £50 on it

[JOHN DOE]

May as well paypal it me instead.

!does he nt realise we are the reddest of devils

[Guest M12 Part 2]

still cant believe uniteds odds are 4/1 its a final! and united arent any team...i may have to drop some big P on it

[Guest Fat Eric]

how much would it cost to be the first advert after half time?

[Seydou]

Man Utd Darren Fletcher, who has been out for two months with a mystery virus, will not be fit to play for in the Champions League final against Barcelona.

[MF Cunt]

time to call it a day when you have aids tbh

[The King]

Lessons from 2009As this season’s Champions League final is a repeat of the final from 2009, it’s well worth taking a look at that contest before Saturday night’s game.The footage, if you’re interested, is available on YouTube here (with the following parts on the links down the right-hand side).Here are five conclusions from that match – five more (plus the usual preview) to come.1. Manchester United pressed excellently early on“I didn’t expect Manchester (United) to press up so high up,”

. “They pressed 4 v 4 and caused us problems for the first pass.” This worked really well – United forced Victor Valdes into a mistake within the first 15 seconds of the match, won a throw, and then spent almost the entire first ten minutes in the Barcelona half, attempting five shots in that time.There was a tactical factor to the Barca goal – the surprise of Samuel Eto’o starting on the right, and Lionel Messi in the centre – but it was more down to individual mistakes. Michael Carrick let Andres Iniesta drift past him, Nemanja Vidic was turned far too easily, and Edwin van der Sar will have been disappointed with his effort for the goal. United started the match very strongly, and they went behind due to individual – not tactical – errors.2. Barcelona didn’t press intensely

, but in this match Manchester United’s centre-backs were given a fair amount of time on the ball. Eto’o and Thierry Henry dropped back and Barcelona often looked willingly like 4-1-4-1 without the ball, which is relatively rare these days – it only happens when they’re under sustained pressure.It’s unlikely to be a similar situation in this game – Pedro Rodriguez and David Villa work much harder without the ball, and Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic will come under pressure much more quickly.3. Michael Carrick played reasonably well on the ballOften remembered as having a nightmare in Rome, Carrick was the only player who was really attempting to get United playing. OK, a couple of his through-balls were overhit, a couple of his long diagonals were underhit, but the problem wasn’t really Carrick, as such – the problem was that there was no creativity from higher up the pitch, so Carrick had to act as the main playmaker.Nowadays, Carrick plays a much simpler game. His passes are shorter because he plays with wide players who like the ball in different positions – with Wayne Rooney and (in the second half of the 2009 final) Cristiano Ronaldo on the flanks in 2009, they wanted to run onto the ball in advanced positions. Now, with Antonio Valencia and Park Ji-Sung more classic wide midfielders rather than forwards, Carrick can do his job by playing simple balls into feet. Even when under pressure, he should be able to do that fine.4. Messi in the centre was the surprise in 2009 – now, it’s the normThis played its part in the first goal, as outlined earlier, and in the second, when Messi headed in Xavi Hernandez’s cross. It’s amazing how confused United were about Messi’s false nine positioning, and how they don’t react to the situation at all. Late in the first half, for example, Messi drops into a deep slightly right-of-centre position, and Patrice Evra comes high up the pitch to close him down – as if he was still used to Messi playing as a right-sided forward. It should have been the domain of one of the centre-backs, or one of the central midfielders.Messi’s central positioning is now established – he played there for much of last season, and this campaign the number ten position is his default role. That doesn’t mean he’ll be easy to stop, and there are still question marks about whether it’ll be a midfielder picking him up, a defender picking him up, or a purely zonal system – but it won’t be as chaotic as in 2009.5. Daniel Alves wasn’t playingSuspended after being booked in the semi-final against Chelsea, Alves watched on from the stands. Carles Puyol was forced to play at right-back instead, and naturally played a much more defensive role than Alves would have.There’s two ways to look at this. On one hand, United aren’t used to his energetic runs from deep positions down the touchlines, and will need to make sure their left-winger (probably Park Ji-Sung) is alert to the danger. On the other, Barcelona were down the flanks – Rooney was quiet, in particular, and Ronaldo in his centre-forward position was the main danger. Guardiola instructed his full-backs to sit deep against Real Madrid to prevent the diagonal balls catching Barca out, and considering that (possibly accidental) tactic also worked well against United in 2009, he might opt for the same strategy here.6. Sergio Busquets wasn’t ‘occupied’Ryan Giggs was asked to play as a central attacking midfielder, or perhaps a deep forward – playing ahead of the midfield line but clearly behind Cristiano Ronaldo. His job was to link the play, almost as a number ten – and United generally defended with two banks of four, with Giggs given the task of helping press the opposition centre-backs.That ignored Busquets, however. Giggs didn’t even attempt to close him down, and Busquets had too much time on the ball. Two seasons ago, with Busquets in his debut season, a back-up for Yaya Toure and not a regular in the first team, we didn’t understand how crucial he is to Barcelona’s passing game. Now, it’s perfectly clear – and United can’t make the same mistake again. Assuming Javier Hernandez plays, Wayne Rooney must be given the job of picking Busquets up when not in possession.7. Manchester United didn’t exploit Barcelona’s weakness at left-backSylvinho was drafted into the side to play left-back in 2009. He was 35, his best days long gone, and was allowed to leave for Manchester City after the final. United should have attacked him, tested his lack of pace and his defensive qualities, but instead they played Park Ji-Sung on the right. Park was probably the weakest of United’s four attacking players (Ronaldo, Giggs, Rooney) and was arguably less of an attacking threat then than he is now.Is this relevant this year? Sylvinho is long gone, but despite signing two left-backs in two years, Maxwell and Adriano, it’s still Barcelona’s weakest position. Whoever plays there will have a weakness – Eric Abidal will not be 100% fit, Carles Puyol will be out of position, Maxwell and Adriano are simply not particularly great players. Antonio Valencia dominated Ashley Cole a couple of weeks agoand should be used in a similar way here – get him in 1 v 1 battles, and United might prosper.8. United had serious problems with Andres IniestaWe all know that Michael Carrick is not a classic destroyer and often struggles when coming up against creative midfielders. However, even by his standards, he found it very difficult to cope with Iniesta, who was constantly able to glide past Carrick very easily.It’s difficult to know what will change here. Look at the individual battles in the 2009 final, and relatively few are set for a re-match here – but Carrick v Iniesta is one of them. Carrick probably needs to get tighter – but that will mean Messi potentially going free, and one of the centre-backs having to play higher up.9. Ferguson’s biggest mistake was with his substitutionsIf Ferguson’s starting tactics weren’t shocking, his use of his bench was. He opted for an approach that, frankly, seemed remarkably naive even at the time – he needed a goal, so withdrew midfielders and threw on extra attackers. The first move was at half time – Carlos Tevez came on for Anderson, with Ryan Giggs dropping into a deep midfield position alongside Michael Carrick. Worryingly, for United (considering Giggs-Carrick is likely to be the starting midfield duo on Saturday), they were immediately overrun in midfield.Things got even worse when Park gave way to Berbatov – United were already struggling for energy in midfield, and it’s difficult to think of a worse possible substitution if we’re talking about mobility. The first goal will be all-important on Saturday, but if Barcelona score it, United can’t afford to concede the midfield again – Barca will just pass their way to victory.10. Barcelona were not as cohesive as they are nowThis is largely the same side as in 2009, and whilst they may not be regarded as having the same quality as they did when the won the treble, they are probably a tighter unit. In the 2009 final, the backline was makeshift because of suspension, the forward trio were playing in slightly unusual positions, and also had Thierry Henry and Samuel Eto’o: great players but probably more individualistic than Pedro Rodriguez or David Villa. The midfield three were the only truly cohesive part of the side – and even then, Busquets wasn’t a regular. Therefore, that trio didn’t have the experience of playing together it does now.Put simply, Barcelona are much more difficult to play against. They hold onto the ball better – an average of 73.3% possession per game this season, compared to to 65.6% in 2009. They only had 51% of possession in the 2009 final – it would be a surprise if that figure wasn’t above 60% here, at the very least. They also work better as a unit without the ball, and their defensive record is much better. There is simply more of a collective feel, more of a defined identity about Barcelona – watch the 2009 final and they just don’t seem so…Barcelona.The outcome? Manchester United can’t just correct any mistakes from 2009 and automatically be in control – they’re up against a different beast altogether.http://www.zonalmark...gue-final-2009/http://www.zonalmark...gue-final-2009/

[Guest Portuguese]

4. People are starting to clock about this now it happened two years agoPep will find a new problem for SAF tactically.

[Guest Fat Eric]

that 2009 barca team looks f*ckED on paper. eto messi and henry upfrontmy gard

[Guest Klitschko]

Lol at 'on paper' like they didn't win the quadradadaouple.

[Guest M12 Part 2]

Agreed but Nani over Valencia to start.

[Guest Klitschko]

Nah It's best Valencia starts. He's more responsible and he'll need to be. And after that Injury he [Nani] hasn't been the same. Only thing is I may thought Nani on the left would be better because he will give Alves something to think about in the other direction, whereas Park may not.

[Guest Portuguese]

Alves is like what Roberto Carlos was for years in the sense he doesn't worry who he is coming up against because he tends to push the left winger back therefore he plays the game in the opposition's halfSet pieces/crosses are going to be key for Manchester United they need to alienate Pique and target Mascherano(the guy has yet to been tested part from ET in the CDR final)

[The King]

VDSFabioFerdinandVidicEvraParkGiggsCarrickValenciaRooneyHernandezSubs: PIGRafaelSmallingScholesAndersonNaniBerbatov???????????????

This will be it im sure./Nani hasnt got anywhere near the amount of plaudits as he deserved this season.

[Guest Klitschko]

Because of his attitude, it's ridiculous really.

[Michel Kane]

He's been very, very good this season but not outstanding.I think the 'backlash' of his exclusion from the PFA awards was indicative that football fans with an actual knowledge of the game knew he should've won.I think we need to focus less on the 'quantity' of plaudits & more of the 'quality' of plaudits given.

[Guest Klitschko]

At the time when the Player of the Year award was given/voted for, he deserved it tbh, by some distance.

[Michel Kane]

Some distance?Really dude?Again, he's not been 'OUTSTANDING'.

[Agony]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqqwVQPK8ukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Qw5uHTzJcHopefully on Saturday its 3rd time lucky vs Puyol

[Guest Portuguese]

I can say I never noticed this ref before until I read the articleI remember him bottling it when Ozil was clear on goal in the semi's against Spain and got dragged down and he failed to send the Spanish defender off.The 35-year-old Viktor Kassai will take charge of the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United. Photograph: Fadi Al-Assaad/Reuters Marcus Christenson guardian.co.uk, Thu 26 May 2011 10.46 BSTUefa has selected the Hungarian Viktor Kassai to referee the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United on Saturday.The 35-year-old has been a Fifa referee since 2003 and was in charge of the 2008 Olympic Games final as well as the 2010 World Cup semi-final between Germany and Spain.Kassai has been in charge of three Manchester United games in his career so far with Sir Alex Ferguson's men winning all three, against Valencia (1-0 in September 2010), Wolfsburg (2-1 in September 2009) and Dynamo Kyiv (4-2 in October 2007).Kassai will be assisted by Gabor Eros and Gyorgy Ring at Wembley with Mihaly Fabian and Tamas Bognar as additional assistant referees

[The King]

Some distance?Really dude?Again, he's not been 'OUTSTANDING'.

Who do you think had been as good at the time the awards were given?