Americans fire shots at NHS

[VENOM]

thats why im gonna go to the US or canada to work after im done with dubaif*ck working in this sh*t hole treating non paying affs and srilankans

[Thun]

from what ive read i like the sound of the Cuban health care system

One of the best in the worldWe are heading towards third world status

Are We In Denial About NHS After Palin Attacks Obama Health Bill?Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past 10 years, you’ll know that almost weekly something negative comes out about the UK’s National Health Service (NHS).Underfunded, not enough beds, life saving drugs being denied, elderly people being refused operations, where you live dictating what standard of care you get, super bugs…the list goes on.This is something very close to home having a sick mother mother who was firstly misdiagnosed, then put on awaiting list, before being told she could have cancer. When surgery was scheduled she was turned away at the hospital 4 times without a phone call, giving it a chance to spread.Then there was my elderly nan who fell ill, was firstly shunned by the doctor, then hospitalized without any real diagnosis. If family members didn’t intervene they probably would have just left her. Did I mention there was a moldy orange on the floor for a week, and nobody did anything about it? Elderly people are just considered a burden by this system.Sentiment it seems is strong about the NHS.So I was shocked to read headlines about how Twitter crashed after Brits went on a mass NHS defending campaign, following a Sarah Palin statement about how if Obama passes the US Health Care Bill it will be like the NHS, which she claims is a “death panel” that picks who gets treatment.She’s right! It is, and those in the United States that are opposing this Bill, only to be silenced or misrepresented as racist by the corporate media system need OUR support.The elites that run our country are the same elites that run theirs. Instead of jumping in to a false patriotic fight mode when somebody criticizes the UK, why not get out of denial and accept that our country sucks, and that their country also sucks, and that if we don’t do something about it we’ll continue to covertly move in to fascism. Yanks are going through the same governmental tyranny as us, they are our friends. Stop the divide and conquer!Of course when you find out that Twitter has users from the US CIA, that the Iranian revolution on Twitter was probably staged spam, and that “elite” scientist Stephen Hawking, who only just received a medal from Obama himself, led the retaliation against Palin, it has you wondering whether it was all just a big plot to defend Obama.The NHS DOES save lives, and I commend the doctors and nurses that work overtime to help those in need, but before we raise the British flag, make sure it’s warranted.

[Grafter]

being a doctor or a nurse, not to say they shouldn't be paid accordingly for their workbut money shouldn't be a motivation to get into the medical profession

[Angelo]

Why not?

[BLACK VICTIM]

JUST SOME PAKIFIED STUDENT

[VENOM]

being a doctor or a nurse, not to say they shouldn't be paid accordingly for their workbut money shouldn't be a motivation to get into the medical profession

DONT COME WITH THAT FLIP FLOP WEARING GLOBAL WARMING RECYCLE YOUR BINS BULLSHIT.MONEY CAN BE THE MOTIVATION FOR ANYTHING. U LOVE THE CAREER COS IT PAYS WELL, NOT COS U WANNA BE SEEING UGLY BOATS TELL YOU THEY HAVE A SWELLING EVERY DAY

[Grafter]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

[Thun]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

C/S

[VENOM]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

its people like you that remain poor and then become like thun saying the world is against you.people want their kids to get a good education cos education pays.all that 'helping pple' thing is part of the job. a well paid doctor doesnt just like his job cos he helps pple, its cos he is providing financial security for his family, in a secure career . that is the #1 motivation most timeabout helping and caring and sharing. smh

[NO SUNSHINE]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

wow you really are naive

[Thun]

You can have the attitude like venom were your sole motivation is greed and to make money out of peoples suffering but then those type of people have little heart

[YFSD]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

wow you really are naive

No she's notShe's not saying that's how it is but how it should be and she's right

[Dubby]

I swear in America there's state hospitals and private hospitals? And the doctors/nurses that work in the state ones don't even earn that much?

[Grafter]

for one part of the argument - so in a developing country, where doctors get paid pittance in comparison to doctors over here and the US,if the people that manage to get an education to become doctors and nurses whether abroad or in their own country all decide to go and use that expertise in another country because they will get paid more they end up leaving the poor, sick people in their own country, and their own health system doesnt improvelike i said, im not saying doctors and nurses shouldn't be paid accordingly, im just saying that when money is a bigger motivation than actually saving lives, its the people and the countries which cant afford it that lose out on the potential of the best medical care

[NO SUNSHINE]

at the end of the day doctors have a set of skills/knowledge that they use to provide a service and charge people for this service, no different to a mechanic or a plumber or the guy who comes round to fix your satellite dishpeople pay doctors what they are willing to pay for the service they provide

[Sub_Zero]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

its people like you that remain poor and then become like thun saying the world is against you.people want their kids to get a good education cos education pays.all that 'helping pple' thing is part of the job. a well paid doctor doesnt just like his job cos he helps pple, its cos he is providing financial security for his family, in a secure career . that is the #1 motivation most timeabout helping and caring and sharing. smh

You should research Objectivism as a philosophy which was created by Ayn Rand. Better yet get her book called Fountainhead, judging by your opinions you'll enjoy it.Don't take this for sending because it isn't - I generally think your views are pretty similiar and the book is a modern classic.

[Flojo]

ur sole motivation for that type of work, should be to help people, to ensure u do ur work to the best of ur ability, with the best and most genuine intentionswhen money and greed comes into it, u get a load of individuals in the profession who care less about the actual work they do and more about the money

C/S

One minute you're saying the current system in America is better than ours despite it being largely about money and the next minute you're co signing this. I don't understand where you're coming from?

[Angelo]

lol @ the misplaced morals.

[VENOM]

for one part of the argument - so in a developing country, where doctors get paid pittance in comparison to doctors over here and the US,if the people that manage to get an education to become doctors and nurses whether abroad or in their own country all decide to go and use that expertise in another country because they will get paid more they end up leaving the poor, sick people in their own country, and their own health system doesnt improvelike i said, im not saying doctors and nurses shouldn't be paid accordingly, im just saying that when money is a bigger motivation than actually saving lives, its the people and the countries which cant afford it that lose out on the potential of the best medical care

in a developing country, the doctors are amongst the highest paid as well. so ur point is a fail. why shoudl the doctors in developing countries not care about salary when the govt officials are there teefing money. you can save lives and make a very good income as a result of the lives you save.i hate people like u who come with this bullshit about lets all help humanity. some c*nt is pushing a lever sitting down all the time, the only time he really gets to work is when albarook blows up a bomb on his tube which is rare. apart from that he does nothing and gets paid £40k. an investment banker who just steals money from others to pay money to others and gets paid off the interst can make £300k minimum. a nurse who works even harder than doctors gets £26k for her hard work... not to talk of the amt of aggro and psychological trauma involved in the medical field..and they shold just do all this out of the kindness of their hearts.NO. people should be able to go into the medical field because its a well paying life long career that has the joint benefit of helping people and saving lives.

[UN.Muzik]

Venom's in the right here, let's take the rose-tinted shades off for a minute

[ChickenCottage]

from what ive read i like the sound of the Cuban health care system

One of the best in the worldWe are heading towards third world status

Are We In Denial About NHS After Palin Attacks Obama Health Bill?Unless you’ve been living under a rock for the past 10 years, you’ll know that almost weekly something negative comes out about the UK’s National Health Service (NHS).Underfunded, not enough beds, life saving drugs being denied, elderly people being refused operations, where you live dictating what standard of care you get, super bugs…the list goes on.This is something very close to home having a sick mother mother who was firstly misdiagnosed, then put on awaiting list, before being told she could have cancer. When surgery was scheduled she was turned away at the hospital 4 times without a phone call, giving it a chance to spread.Then there was my elderly nan who fell ill, was firstly shunned by the doctor, then hospitalized without any real diagnosis. If family members didn’t intervene they probably would have just left her. Did I mention there was a moldy orange on the floor for a week, and nobody did anything about it? Elderly people are just considered a burden by this system.Sentiment it seems is strong about the NHS.So I was shocked to read headlines about how Twitter crashed after Brits went on a mass NHS defending campaign following a Sarah Palin statement about how if Obama passes the US Health Care Bill it will be like the NHS, which she claims is a “death panel” that picks who gets treatment.She’s right! It is, and those in the United States that are opposing this Bill, only to be silenced or misrepresented as racist by the corporate media system need OUR support.The elites that run our country are the same elites that run theirs. Instead of jumping in to a false patriotic fight mode when somebody criticizes the UK, why not get out of denial and accept that our country sucks, and that their country also sucks, and that if we don’t do something about it we’ll continue to covertly move in to fascism. Yanks are going through the same governmental tyranny as us, they are our friends. Stop the divide and conquer!Of course when you find out that Twitter has users from the US CIA, that the Iranian revolution on Twitter was probably staged spam, and that “elite” scientist Stephen Hawking, who only just received a medal from Obama himself, led the retaliation against Palin, it has you wondering whether it was all just a big plot to defend Obama.The NHS DOES save lives, and I commend the doctors and nurses that work overtime to help those in need, but before we raise the British flag, make sure it’s warranted.

Source?Because the bits in bold are absolute bullshit.1. Twitter was down because of a DDos attack.2. There is no death panel mentioned in the proposed bill anywhere.It's not really a persuasive argument.

[Grafter]

for one part of the argument - so in a developing country, where doctors get paid pittance in comparison to doctors over here and the US,if the people that manage to get an education to become doctors and nurses whether abroad or in their own country all decide to go and use that expertise in another country because they will get paid more they end up leaving the poor, sick people in their own country, and their own health system doesnt improvelike i said, im not saying doctors and nurses shouldn't be paid accordingly, im just saying that when money is a bigger motivation than actually saving lives, its the people and the countries which cant afford it that lose out on the potential of the best medical care

in a developing country, the doctors are amongst the highest paid as well. so ur point is a fail. why shoudl the doctors in developing countries not care about salary when the govt officials are there teefing money. you can save lives and make a very good income as a result of the lives you save.

ok, but they would still earn more money if the moved to a developed country, if money is their biggest motivation and they have the means then they would do thatand i havnt said that doctors shouldn't be amongst the highest paidif over here, a doctor can get paid more to work in private healthcare, and he/she goes and leaves the nhs, it leaves the people who cant afford those services with a skill defecit in what they can affordanyway, im jus saying how i think things should run

[tuppatopbrer]

Some of the people here need to learn how to debate objectively. Just because you feel so passionately about a subject, it should not hinder the way you deliver your arguments.Quite a few posts to address.Thun - To you report about cancer statistics, you can't just look at the ends without looking at the means, i.e. the causes. Yes it's a shocking statistic about the UK but did you even bother to address the fact the UK has worse underlying health issues than most of Europe. I know you're probably going to retort by saying look at the US, but you for one should know about the beauty of statistics. Those (the poor who cant afford healthcare) that die of cancer due to bad health etc. If they die undiagnosed, as one could probably infer due to their inability to pay for healthcare, how can they survive statistically. Especially in 2000 times when healthcare was even more inaccessible to the poor as it is today.All this talk about shitty treatment is unfounded. Angelo pretty much nailed it on the head. Most things in the western world is governed by economics. If you attach a monetary incentive to any activity or service, the agents delivering this service will differentiate their 'product' according to who can pay. Healthcare is a right to everyone. I am not a socialist for saying this, I just feel it is one of the fundamental rights we should have. It is also widely known that those who suffer the most from poor health are the less advantaged than us. So to create a system whereby the very people you need to help are priced out of receiving healthcare, significantly defeats the purpose of 'healthcare for all'.Back to the private healthcare argument.Carpe - You do raise a good point about choice in theory but backing it with anecdotal evidence doesn't make it any stronger. The private could well say 'you're going to die tomorrow if you don't have this treatment' etc but as I say, though not the sole aim, the predominant aim of private practices is their bottom line, not the interests of the patient. Put it this way, in their ideal world, if two people presented the same symptoms, they would treat the one who would pay the most, not the person who needs it the most.Continuing, private practices, as they are motivated by money, concentrate their efforts in specialising in big money diseases: cancer, heart disease, brain disease. Which is fine, but you can't have a universal health system which only caters for diseases which rich people tend to get.To the argument about the motives for doctors. In the UK, those that are motivated purely by money are those which go private, simple as that. They'll gain their stars after their 6 years at med school, spend 3-6 years at hospital then go private. A friend told me the exact system but I forget. But that's only detail.- There is a price on everything, even humans but that price/cost should not be borne to the individual as an individual does not have society's best interests at the top of the agenda.Venom - "NO. people should be able to go into the medical field because its a well paying life long career that has the joint benefit of helping people and saving lives." It is the other way round for the case of healthcare.To the main argument. The US political right, in my opinion know that this idea of having more government integration in healthcare will work as Obama is the person most likely to deliver it successfully, hence why they have got their spin doctors and Fox News Cheerleading team to try and discredit the proposals by attaching emotion to every aspect of the proposed plans. If the right had it their way they will return to they days where healthcare was fully privatised. Imagine if another universal right (imo again) education was fully privatised...I feel sorry for the Americans who have to be subjected to such drivel, and actually believe it.

[YGNB]

Thun and Carpe are cluelessBritain recognises that healthcare should be a basic human right.America has the lowest infant mortality rate in the western world. America's healthcare is rated at 37th in the world by the World Health Organisation. Britain is ranked 18th. The only good thing to come out of this labour government over the last 12 years is the improvement to the NHS. But it stills needs a lot more funding.A good start would be to make everyone be on the organ donor list and people can opt out if they choose.Carpe - I'm not sure what your saying, we should have private health care? Because we already do.

[pyrouk]

nhs gives people an option at least, nearly 50 million people in america have no option at all