UEFA EURO U21's 2011

[TF S4DK]

So in order to have a discussion you need to invent your own interpretation of what I've said? Lol. You may as well talk to yourself if thats the case...

[BATTY BOY BUM BANDIT]

Darkman must be doing this on purpose. Must be.

[darkman]

More nurture than nature.And nurture goes beyond mere coaching.Natural talent is a myth.People see sportsmen like Messi, Ronaldinho, Tiger Woods, etc & think 'natural talent' but no-one sees the ridiculous age they start kicking a ball at or picking up a golf club, practice, the QUALITY of practice, the upbringing & how that develops their mentality & all sorts of factors on top of that.Of course there are sportsmen that carry different genes & whatnot, and physically speaking might put some at an advantage, but having a smaller centre of gravity than a player or being faster/stronger than another doesn't equate to 'talent'.

Quote from Giggs himself

When I first began playing football as a boy it was my natural ability that set me apart from other players. I wouldn’t say I worked harder or trained longer than anyone else. At break time at school I’d play football, and when I came home I’d play football, and then I’d go to training and play football, but that’s what everyone else did at that age, too.

[Michel Kane]

More nurture than nature.And nurture goes beyond mere coaching.Natural talent is a myth.People see sportsmen like Messi, Ronaldinho, Tiger Woods, etc & think 'natural talent' but no-one sees the ridiculous age they start kicking a ball at or picking up a golf club, practice, the QUALITY of practice, the upbringing & how that develops their mentality & all sorts of factors on top of that.Of course there are sportsmen that carry different genes & whatnot, and physically speaking might put some at an advantage, but having a smaller centre of gravity than a player or being faster/stronger than another doesn't equate to 'talent'.

Quote from Giggs himself

When I first began playing football as a boy it was my natural ability that set me apart from other players. I wouldn’t say I worked harder or trained longer than anyone else. At break time at school I’d play football, and when I came home I’d play football, and then I’d go to training and play football, but that’s what everyone else did at that age, too.

As do Lionel Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo, and pretty much every top player who has ever excelled. If you disagree, read their biographies.But where did this appetite come from? We can glimpse an answer by looking at what they say. Here is Messi: ''With hard work, anything is possible.'' Here is Pele: ''Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning, studying, sacrifice & love of what you are learning to do.'' Here is Beckham: ''My secret is practice. I have always believed that if you want to achieve anything special in life, you have to work, work & then work some more''. These quotes are hardly unfamiliar, but consider what they are telling us. Yes, these players have worked hard & demonstrated remarkable persistance. But there is something more. Look at what these statements are telling us about their beliefs. They believe hard work creates success.

[Guest FA23]

When I first began playing football as a boy it was my natural ability that set me apart from other players. I wouldn’t say I worked harder or trained longer than anyone else. At break time at school I’d play football, and when I came home I’d play football, and then I’d go to training and play football, but that’s what everyone else did at that age, too.

key point. natural talent will get you noticed and give you a starting point to build from, natural talent will not make you a world class player alone, but with top class coaching it can.

[Michel Kane]

People in general need to stop thinking that 'learning' is something that is exclusive to just 'coaching'.If you mean 'natural' as in the things you learn outside of formalised training sessions, then yeah, it's cool, but the way man are saying players are BORN with it, is laughable, I'm sorry.And I'm prepared to debate this at length & in depth if you really want to.

[Guest FA23]

We are talking about football here, you need a whole lot more than natural ability to become a pro baller.If we were talking about rugby i wouldnt have much arguments.

[darkman]

More nurture than nature.And nurture goes beyond mere coaching.Natural talent is a myth.People see sportsmen like Messi, Ronaldinho, Tiger Woods, etc & think 'natural talent' but no-one sees the ridiculous age they start kicking a ball at or picking up a golf club, practice, the QUALITY of practice, the upbringing & how that develops their mentality & all sorts of factors on top of that.Of course there are sportsmen that carry different genes & whatnot, and physically speaking might put some at an advantage, but having a smaller centre of gravity than a player or being faster/stronger than another doesn't equate to 'talent'.

Quote from Giggs himself

When I first began playing football as a boy it was my natural ability that set me apart from other players. I wouldn’t say I worked harder or trained longer than anyone else. At break time at school I’d play football, and when I came home I’d play football, and then I’d go to training and play football, but that’s what everyone else did at that age, too.

As do Lionel Messi & Cristiano Ronaldo, and pretty much every top player who has ever excelled. If you disagree, read their biographies.But where did this appetite come from? We can glimpse an answer by looking at what they say. Here is Messi: ''With hard work, anything is possible.'' Here is Pele: ''Success is no accident. It is hard work, perseverance, learning, studying, sacrifice & love of what you are learning to do.'' Here is Beckham: ''My secret is practice. I have always believed that if you want to achieve anything special in life, you have to work, work & then work some more''. These quotes are hardly unfamiliar, but consider what they are telling us. Yes, these players have worked hard & demonstrated remarkable persistance. But there is something more. Look at what these statements are telling us about their beliefs. They believe hard work creates success.

Only the individual can force themselves to work hard

[Michel Kane]

Bro, you're like a female in an argument with her man the way you deflect.Your point was, players are 'born' with it. I disagreed.Then it became a nature vs. nurture debate.I said natural talent (as in the assumption that talent is innate) is a myth.You tried to come back with that Ryan Giggs quote, whilst I replied with my quote.Then you say, ''It's up to the individual to work hard''? So is 'work ethic' a natural quality?

[darkman]

Bro, you're like a female in an argument with her man the way you deflect.Your point was, players are 'born' with it. I disagreed.Then it became a nature vs. nurture debate.I said natural talent (as in the assumption that talent is innate) is a myth.You tried to come back with that Ryan Giggs quote, whilst I replied with my quote.Then you say, ''It's up to the individual to work hard''? So is 'work ethic' a natural quality?

Not deflecting anythingDoesn't the Giggs quote prove it's not a myth?To be a top professional you need not only the ability but the determination/work ethic to make it and this can only come from within

[Michel Kane]

Bro, you're like a female in an argument with her man the way you deflect.Your point was, players are 'born' with it. I disagreed.Then it became a nature vs. nurture debate.I said natural talent (as in the assumption that talent is innate) is a myth.You tried to come back with that Ryan Giggs quote, whilst I replied with my quote.Then you say, ''It's up to the individual to work hard''? So is 'work ethic' a natural quality?

Not deflecting anythingDoesn't the Giggs quote prove it's not a myth?To be a top professional you need not only the ability but the determination/work ethic to make it and this can only come from within

No, it doesn't.

[Lieutenant]

Coaching plays a massive role in my opinion.That's coming from someone who has played in academies

[darkman]

Coaching plays a massive role in my opinion.That's coming from someone who has played in academies

Why aint you a pro in your opinion?

[mp*]

Bare arguing but no1 mentioned that the semi-final was on Spain losing 0-1 to Belarus 3 mins unitl half time

[TF S4DK]

72% possession.

[Student of Accounting]

Ander is ready to replace Cesc.The guy is sheer class.

[Tom]

Just moved to Athletic Bilbao, not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Lieutenant]

Coaching plays a massive role in my opinion.That's coming from someone who has played in academies

Why aint you a pro in your opinion?

Mentality, coaching and fitness(in that order)

[Guest M12 Part 2]

Coaching plays a massive role in my opinion.That's coming from someone who has played in academies

I disagree and I've played academy level ball as well. The coaches do help but the main thing that levels you up is playing with players of better ability than sunday league. You don't learn anything playing in games where there are at least 3 or 4 players on the pitch who don't have the basics like ball control. And games where your team is good and the other team is absolute sh*t and you're paxing teams in 18-0. The coaches guide you, but I think the main thing is playing with players with higher levels of technical ability and better football brains.

[Tom]

Why are Barca being greedy pursuing Fabregas? Thiago is f*cked.

[TF S4DK]

Too lazy to finish him off tbh./Should have scored!

[Michel Kane]

Adrian? SMH

[Michel Kane]

Dunno why Thiago didn't pull the trigger there.Great interception by Dragun.

[Guest Portuguese]

Thiago reminds me of Deco from 2003-2005