Ive already said on here part of my ancestry and its not purely west african same with you no doubt so that argument about not bein from Ethiopia is bit unnecessary. Also the real point of mentioning Ethiopia was to state that Christianity is not the domain of the eurpoean.
VTEC has pretty much laid my take on what is a good interpretation of credible historical fact in relation to the Abrahamic faiths on the table
With regards to the practices of my father's ancestors its two totally different belief systems
Comparison would be the spiritual teachings of a 100 y/o Chinese monk on one hand, on the other the teachings of an Islamic scholar
/
The bit about Ethiopia was totally necessary imo (unless you were talking about it in terms of you actually having Ethiopian heritage)
Let's stay away from our subjective beliefs in 2017 for a minute and explore credible historical fact
My mother is "from Jamaica" which is nothing but a dead end road until I or she do tests to find out what her heritage actually is HOWEVER if I were to speculate or generalise
IMO the "Jamaicans" whos practices and culture has been least influenced by Europeans are the Maroons. As far as I'm aware there is no evidence of them practising any form of Christianity prior to it being introduced to them in the 1900's
With that said and with respect why are we talking about churches in Ethiopia and how is Ethiopia relevant to us as Jamaicans historically?
Not only is this an objective question but it's an important one if we're trying to get a better understanding of OUR history regardless of how far it takes us outside of our comfort zones
Ok so what is the belief system of your ancestors and how is it opposite? I really would like you to expand on this.
And is your heritage maroon? Not all of us have a maroon ancestry soooo you mentioning is as irrelevant as me mentioning Ethiopia is it not?
I wont reiterate the reason i brought up Ethiopia because its been said enough.
None of us are obligated to observe the religions of our ancestors. And your stance becomes totally unstuck considering the mix up prevalent in our ancestry as Jamaicans
My maternal grandma is as much black african (maroon) as she is arawak indian not to mention the rest. Who's ancient belief system must she follow?
We cannot separate our modern day beliefs from this conversation because you bought up practising Christianity in modern times as ur initial question.
Additionally having knowledge of our history doesnt mean we cant follow whatever path to god we like. And i brought up rastas because it addresses this very confusion, what to follow? How to practice? Not sure, lets make our own thing which is relevant to our lived experience.
My personal feeling is I'm completely uninterested in trying to practice any ancient systems or traditions. Love to learn because knowledge is power but that's it. Spiritually everything i need is already within.
Furthermore regards being Jamaican i have no issue with it. No issue with the fact we descend from slaves. Of course it never should have happened but it has and i dont feel ashamed or any less than anyone else in this world. Main reason being those of us alive today survived, we, our ancestors survived the middle passage survived 100s of years of brutality and not only are we alive we are fuckin thriving. We are stars in this world and a shining example of HUMAN strength and resilience
I don't need to go back an find where my ancestor was stolen from to feel good about myself or to fill any gaping hole in my identity. There is no hole
Romans imposed christanity on africa to ruin it yh loloooollol
Like christianity didnt ruin the roman empire
Technically Rome wasn't a Christian state until officially adopted by Constantine 325 AD in Nicea Turkey, and then held a serious of ecumenical council's to decide and vote what faith should and shouldn't be and what the nature of christ should be. Adapting to their hellenes deity worships along with what the Serapis figure was from Ptomley Soter I much earlier.
They infused their own deities like Jupiter who to the Greeks was Zeus - http://www.crystalinks.com/romegods.html. In rome today the vatican in the main square there is a statue of St Peter (one of the 12 Disciples was formely that of Roman God Jupiter.) who apparently was Jebus right hand man
For Rome it was a politically and strategical war move for domination and land control. And renamed themselves the "Holy Roman Empire" today known as Catholism. (rome never fell, hidden in plain sight behind arosticracy, government and various ism's)
Further to back the bullshit of this religion is the amount of translations and re-workings and people today swearing their life over it, dying for it and the rest. Still new versions being released to current time with omissions and additions, tweaks and re-works.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1863 AD: Robert Young's "Literal" Translation; often criticized for being so literal that it sometimes obscures the contextual English meaning.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1952 AD: The "Revised Standard Version" (RSV); said to be a Revision of the 1901 American Standard Version, though more highly criticized.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
1990 AD: The "New Revised Standard Version" (NRSV); further revision of 1952 RSV, (itself a revision of 1901 ASV), criticized for "gender inclusiveness".
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.
My personal feeling is I'm completely uninterested in trying to practice any ancient systems or traditions. Love to learn because knowledge is power but that's it. Spiritually everything i need is already within.
Furthermore regards being Jamaican i have no issue with it. No issue with the fact we descend from slaves. Of course it never should have happened but it has and i dont feel ashamed or any less than anyone else in this world. Main reason being those of us alive today survived, we, our ancestors survived the middle passage survived 100s of years of brutality and not only are we alive we are fuckin thriving. We are stars in this world and a shining example of HUMAN strength and resilience
I don't need to go back an find where my ancestor was stolen from to feel good about myself or to fill any gaping hole in my identity. There is no hole
Lot of Jamos don't have this attitude tho. When historical discussions come up u rarely ever hear Ghana or Nigeria, Egypt is usually the first one. I know one Jamo guy who was arguing me down about the Ghana/ja link and he was wanting more to talk about how he's got Irish in him ? Funny thing is Jamaicans culture is celebrated by both white and black but they're still not happy with their lot lol
Lot of Jamos don't have this attitude tho. When historical discussions come up u rarely ever hear Ghana or Nigeria, Egypt is usually the first one. I know one Jamo guy who was arguing me down about the Ghana/ja link and he was wanting more to talk about how he's got Irish in him ? Funny thing is Jamaicans culture is celebrated by both white and black but they're still not happy with their lot lol
First of all stop with the jamo talk
Second of all these are one or two anecdotes from people you are talkin to. Everyone is within their own stage of development just like you are. And its not just Jamaicans who claim egypt either. People are entitled to seek out where their ancestors hailed from as they so choose.
Go to Jamaica, have conversations with a range of Jamaicans and you will see that pride in our culture is at the forefront of our identity.
Let's stay away from our subjective beliefs in 2017 for a minute and explore credible historical fact
7 hours ago, Grafter said:
Ok so what is the belief system of your ancestors and how is it opposite? I really would like you to expand on this.
And is your heritage maroon? Not all of us have a maroon ancestry soooo you mentioning is as irrelevant as me mentioning Ethiopia is it not?
I wont reiterate the reason i brought up Ethiopia because its been said enough.
None of us are obligated to observe the religions of our ancestors. And your stance becomes totally unstuck considering the mix up prevalent in our ancestry as Jamaicans
My maternal grandma is as much black african (maroon) as she is arawak indian not to mention the rest. Who's ancient belief system must she follow?
We cannot separate our modern day beliefs from this conversation because you bought up practising Christianity in modern times as ur initial question.
Additionally having knowledge of our history doesnt mean we cant follow whatever path to god we like. And i brought up rastas because it addresses this very confusion, what to follow? How to practice? Not sure, lets make our own thing which is relevant to our lived experience.
No idea why you find it impossible to do something as simple as having a discussion from an objective point of view
What you don't understand is that I don't care to argue about peoples personal FEELINGS even less so someone such as yourself
History is the important thing here nothing more or less
I even put a disclaimer in before talking about the maroons by saying "IF I WERE TO SPECULATE OR GENERALISE" but thats irrelevant because even if I didnt
How on earth is looking at the practices of JAMAICAN maroons the same as you mentioning Ethiopia. Do we both not have Jamaican heritage?
You know when you don't have a valid point so you just throw in a dash of false equivalence for good measure
In all fairness youve done exactly what I expected you to and showed that part and parcel of embracing such beliefs is disregarding the culture and traditions your ancestors took part in pre-slavery
This is the only reason I think you can't truly be proud of where you come from and hold such beliefs
Imagine she has the audacity to scream she has no need to fill a gaping hole in her identity yet at the same time would take on the beliefs of some patchwork Abrahamic religion with an Ethiopian king crowned as god incarnate who required the assistance of Britain to fight against invasion by Italy
Gerroddahere
Could never be pro black subscribing to such nonsense
You haven't answered any of my questions yet i have addressed your points
Laugh all you want but you seem to be the one who is very confused not me.
I never once said i was "pro-black" whatever u mean by that
You are just doin what you always do which is to change the argument when u are unable to respond. I always think better of u but that is my mistake
You really cannot tell me whether I'm proud of who i am and where i come from or whether i have a gaping whole in my identity. I can tell you and i have told you my position. My spirit has never felt more settled regards this subject.
You wanna be objective but look at your whole butt hurt post.
Asked you twice to explain why your traditional ancestral religion is opposite to Christianity but sounds like you dont even know anything about it.
You are literally the only person getting all up in their feelings over this
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Romans imposed christanity on africa to ruin it yh loloooollol
Like christianity didnt ruin the roman empire
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Grafter
@Trap God
I should have said the European enslaver. Your question was along the lines of can u be a Christian and pro black.
Honestly don't kno what's not to get
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Grafter
Ok so what is the belief system of your ancestors and how is it opposite? I really would like you to expand on this.
And is your heritage maroon? Not all of us have a maroon ancestry soooo you mentioning is as irrelevant as me mentioning Ethiopia is it not?
I wont reiterate the reason i brought up Ethiopia because its been said enough.
None of us are obligated to observe the religions of our ancestors. And your stance becomes totally unstuck considering the mix up prevalent in our ancestry as Jamaicans
My maternal grandma is as much black african (maroon) as she is arawak indian not to mention the rest. Who's ancient belief system must she follow?
We cannot separate our modern day beliefs from this conversation because you bought up practising Christianity in modern times as ur initial question.
Additionally having knowledge of our history doesnt mean we cant follow whatever path to god we like. And i brought up rastas because it addresses this very confusion, what to follow? How to practice? Not sure, lets make our own thing which is relevant to our lived experience.
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Grafter
No one is claiming Ethiopian ancestry in here
And i cant stand people who stop with Egypt.
My personal feeling is I'm completely uninterested in trying to practice any ancient systems or traditions. Love to learn because knowledge is power but that's it. Spiritually everything i need is already within.
Furthermore regards being Jamaican i have no issue with it. No issue with the fact we descend from slaves. Of course it never should have happened but it has and i dont feel ashamed or any less than anyone else in this world. Main reason being those of us alive today survived, we, our ancestors survived the middle passage survived 100s of years of brutality and not only are we alive we are fuckin thriving. We are stars in this world and a shining example of HUMAN strength and resilience
I don't need to go back an find where my ancestor was stolen from to feel good about myself or to fill any gaping hole in my identity. There is no hole
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Vtec
Technically Rome wasn't a Christian state until officially adopted by Constantine 325 AD in Nicea Turkey, and then held a serious of ecumenical council's to decide and vote what faith should and shouldn't be and what the nature of christ should be. Adapting to their hellenes deity worships along with what the Serapis figure was from Ptomley Soter I much earlier.
They infused their own deities like Jupiter who to the Greeks was Zeus - http://www.crystalinks.com/romegods.html. In rome today the vatican in the main square there is a statue of St Peter (one of the 12 Disciples was formely that of Roman God Jupiter.) who apparently was Jebus right hand man
For Rome it was a politically and strategical war move for domination and land control. And renamed themselves the "Holy Roman Empire" today known as Catholism. (rome never fell, hidden in plain sight behind arosticracy, government and various ism's)
Further to back the bullshit of this religion is the amount of translations and re-workings and people today swearing their life over it, dying for it and the rest. Still new versions being released to current time with omissions and additions, tweaks and re-works.
200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.
1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.
315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.
382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).
500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.
600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.
995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.
1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.
1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.
1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.
1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.
1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.
1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).
1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).
1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).
1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).
1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).
1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).
1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.
1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.
1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.
1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.
1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.
1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.
1863 AD: Robert Young's "Literal" Translation; often criticized for being so literal that it sometimes obscures the contextual English meaning.
1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.
1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.
1952 AD: The "Revised Standard Version" (RSV); said to be a Revision of the 1901 American Standard Version, though more highly criticized.
1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.
1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.
1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."
1990 AD: The "New Revised Standard Version" (NRSV); further revision of 1952 RSV, (itself a revision of 1901 ASV), criticized for "gender inclusiveness".
2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.
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ag.
Lot of Jamos don't have this attitude tho. When historical discussions come up u rarely ever hear Ghana or Nigeria, Egypt is usually the first one. I know one Jamo guy who was arguing me down about the Ghana/ja link and he was wanting more to talk about how he's got Irish in him ? Funny thing is Jamaicans culture is celebrated by both white and black but they're still not happy with their lot lol
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Grafter
First of all stop with the jamo talk
Second of all these are one or two anecdotes from people you are talkin to. Everyone is within their own stage of development just like you are. And its not just Jamaicans who claim egypt either. People are entitled to seek out where their ancestors hailed from as they so choose.
Go to Jamaica, have conversations with a range of Jamaicans and you will see that pride in our culture is at the forefront of our identity.
Don't understand your last point
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SLEAZE BALL
No idea why you find it impossible to do something as simple as having a discussion from an objective point of view
What you don't understand is that I don't care to argue about peoples personal FEELINGS even less so someone such as yourself
History is the important thing here nothing more or less
I even put a disclaimer in before talking about the maroons by saying "IF I WERE TO SPECULATE OR GENERALISE" but thats irrelevant because even if I didnt
How on earth is looking at the practices of JAMAICAN maroons the same as you mentioning Ethiopia. Do we both not have Jamaican heritage?
You know when you don't have a valid point so you just throw in a dash of false equivalence for good measure
In all fairness youve done exactly what I expected you to and showed that part and parcel of embracing such beliefs is disregarding the culture and traditions your ancestors took part in pre-slavery
This is the only reason I think you can't truly be proud of where you come from and hold such beliefs
Imagine she has the audacity to scream she has no need to fill a gaping hole in her identity yet at the same time would take on the beliefs of some patchwork Abrahamic religion with an Ethiopian king crowned as god incarnate who required the assistance of Britain to fight against invasion by Italy
Gerroddahere
Could never be pro black subscribing to such nonsense
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Grafter
You haven't answered any of my questions yet i have addressed your points
Laugh all you want but you seem to be the one who is very confused not me.
I never once said i was "pro-black" whatever u mean by that
You are just doin what you always do which is to change the argument when u are unable to respond. I always think better of u but that is my mistake
You really cannot tell me whether I'm proud of who i am and where i come from or whether i have a gaping whole in my identity. I can tell you and i have told you my position. My spirit has never felt more settled regards this subject.
You wanna be objective but look at your whole butt hurt post.
Asked you twice to explain why your traditional ancestral religion is opposite to Christianity but sounds like you dont even know anything about it.
You are literally the only person getting all up in their feelings over this
@Trap God
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Grafter
Not sure if you understand but being Jamaican does not equate to being maroon.
What is your response to your own mixed ancestry? None lol because ur hurting and confused over your identity
/
Can see how twisted your knickers got when u switch from addressing me directly to she, she she
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JOHN DOE
you two can never debate without becoming perosonal
whether its to each other or to others
no need to start berating each other
this was a good discussion
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dayomesaydayo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4997262/Black-man-launches-astonishing-racist-rant-tube.html
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