1 in 4 British people are racist?

[Grafter]

9 minutes ago, Vtec said:

Lol a broad brush assumption of Jamaicans there

Of course it is

Rastas are a minority in Jamaica for a start

/

There are a portion of Ethiopians who despise Haile Selassie and a portion who love him still.

There is nothing you can tell me about HIM that i am not already aware of. I doubt there is a rasta alive who hasn't been accosted with "what about THIS an THAT?"

Everybody gta find their own paths

 

[dayomesaydayo]

2 hours ago, Drift said:

With the current brands of Christianity that most blacks practice? Definitely not. 

Agree. You can add islam to that as well.

 

 

[Seydou]

Arabs before Islam were idol worshippers like a lot of places around the world.

Plus there was nothing for the Romans in the modern day Saudi to control, don't know where that information comes from. They were busy dealing with the Persian who were a dynasty at that time 

The original Christian scripts were with the Greeks, Turks and Ethiopians.

/

Religion is not really the real problem with conflicts between humans. It's that greed and power, and all of us are born with it. Some more than others.

Religion brings answer to a subject which is difficult for many people and that is the topic of soul and purpose in this life.

If you believe you have your purpose then go ahead and live by that. But to brush religion as the problem causing conflicts 

sors cuz

[Vtec]

45 minutes ago, Admin. said:

what your saying doesnt really mean much tho because all but very few have had their original culture preserved, majority of the world has had a culture implant at least once... blacks, arabs, greeks are all very new words to this world especially with how far your going with kush/kemet etc...

 

I hear you. And don't disagree, just throwing it into the ether for context and anyone interested. 

[SLEAZE BALL]

6 hours ago, Grafter said:

Please do expand on ur first point

And please expand on how Christianity goes against what your ancestors followed?

Ive already said on here part of my ancestry and its not purely west african same with you no doubt so that argument about not bein from Ethiopia is bit unnecessary. Also the real point of mentioning Ethiopia was to state that Christianity is not the domain of the eurpoean.

/

Rasta was a direct response to the lived experienced of the enslaved and oppressed. Im each time and each place the message of the almighty is delivered to us as appropriate to our circumstances. I truly believe that. As jesus said "in my fathers house there are many mansions"

Those mansions include african traditional religions not that i kno much about them i have to admit. 

But if like hinduism there are many gods whom are ultimately manifestations of the many aspects of one creator then that's what it is

VTEC has pretty much laid my take on what is a good interpretation of credible historical fact in relation to the Abrahamic faiths on the table

With regards to the practices of my father's ancestors its two totally different belief systems

Comparison would be the spiritual teachings of a 100 y/o Chinese monk on one hand, on the other the teachings of an Islamic scholar

/

The bit about Ethiopia was totally necessary imo (unless you were talking about it in terms of you actually having Ethiopian heritage)

Let's stay away from our subjective beliefs in 2017 for a minute and explore credible historical fact

My mother is "from Jamaica" which is nothing but a dead end road until I or she do tests to find out what her heritage actually is HOWEVER if I were to speculate or generalise

IMO the "Jamaicans" whos practices and culture has been least influenced by Europeans are the Maroons. As far as I'm aware there is no evidence of them practising any form of Christianity prior to it being introduced to them in the 1900's

With that said and with respect why are we talking about churches in Ethiopia and how is Ethiopia relevant to us as Jamaicans historically?

Not only is this an objective question but it's an important one if we're trying to get a better understanding of OUR history regardless of how far it takes us outside of our comfort zones

[Seydou]

Vtec said Christianity was introduced in Africa by Europeans

Ethiopia was brought to counter that fact. To show that Christianity existed in the continent way before white people, that's all cuz.

Then he decided to ramble about the Nile leading from Egypt to Kushites and how some Greeks created Jesus to control blacks 

/

What went on early or what our ancestor believed does not matter.

If you found your ancestor were following an idol who they believed asked for 25 goats every other full moon with a particular dagger brought by a special tribe, you're not really going to take that up, are you?

/

Can someone disprove the fact that majority of Affs taken were Muslims or nah?

 

[Vtec]

Not sure why you're mentioning me as rambling. When your prior post was pretty much keeping in theme to the same sentiment.

I know some people can't view Egypt as Africa.. But that's the centre where Greeks learned from as too many other civilisation like the Persians then deciding to turn on Egypt and be the trail blaze leaders in their own form and fashion. So of course when these invaders needed to establish and setup they needed to look credible ie Ethiopian copts and assimilate them and gradually impose their own shit to assume leadership over a foreign people. Aka the invention of Serapis.

Greeks in turn morphed into the Roman empire. Arabs against Persian empire United with Rome and where hellenistic Christians for controlling access routes to Roman controlled Egypt cities like alexandria called "the Ghassanids" . Until the creation of Islam 700ad. 

One of the 1st Islamic mosque was built in Egypt same time. 

 

[Seydou]

First mosque built in Islam was in an area called Quba, near Madina way before 700 ad

First conquest for Muslims was the Levant, modern day Syria, between 634-638 ad.

The Muslims fought off the Romans and three months later fought off the Persians, where is this unity?

Egypt wasn't conquered til 642, sooo....

[Vtec]

700 jus rounding off. Nit pick over 50 - 60yrs diff if you want, makes no difference. 

And I said "one of" the 1st mosques. Never said shit about being the 1st.

So what's your point...?  Anyway moving on. 

[Seydou]

I was just correcting you my brother. I had absolutely no point.

Funnily enough a mosque was built in Ethiopia before "one of these early mosques" in Egypt.

In the honour of the Negus King who welcomed the Muslims to Ethiopia

/

50-60 years makes a difference in history bruh. Imagine people debating WW2 and a man says "in the 2000s" the Germans decided to invade the Polish

[SLEAZE BALL]

24 minutes ago, Seydou said:

Vtec said Christianity was introduced in Africa by Europeans

Ethiopia was brought to counter that fact. To show that Christianity existed in the continent way before white people, that's all cuz.

Then he decided to ramble about the Nile leading from Egypt to Kushites and how some Greeks created Jesus to control blacks 

/

What went on early or what our ancestor believed does not matter.

If you found your ancestor were following an idol who they believed asked for 25 goats every other full moon with a particular dagger brought by a special tribe, you're not really going to take that up, are you?

/

Can someone disprove the fact that majority of Affs taken were Muslims or nah?

 

Go back and correct yourself VTEC hadn't replied before JD and Smaddy invoked Ethiopia shit has nothing to do with him tbf so dunno what all thats about

/

What went on early or what our ancestors believed does not matter?

Not in my world

It's of the utmost importance I can teach my son something about his history other than that he's the decendant of slaves tbf

Yes next time I go to Zimbabwe I will partake in traditional practices fully

/

Surely someone should prove the majority that were taken were Muslim?

How does it make sense for people to have to disprove something that hasn't been proven as historical fact?

No idea what has got you in your feelings but please relax and be objective

[Seydou]

I don't like the fact most of his historical points or posts appears to make wypippo superior to blacks

/

Fair point to that, I can't counter that tbh

/

I will try to find those point. 

[ag.]

4 hours ago, Seydou said:

Vtec said Christianity was introduced in Africa by Europeans

Ethiopia was brought to counter that fact. To show that Christianity existed in the continent way before white people, that's all cuz.

Then he decided to ramble about the Nile leading from Egypt to Kushites and how some Greeks created Jesus to control blacks 

/

What went on early or what our ancestor believed does not matter.

If you found your ancestor were following an idol who they believed asked for 25 goats every other full moon with a particular dagger brought by a special tribe, you're not really going to take that up, are you?

/

Can someone disprove the fact that majority of Affs taken were Muslims or nah?

 

It's mainly Caribbean people with an obsession with 'the ancestors' and a lot of it is confusion; one minute it's Egypt, then Ethiopia, etc etc. To counter the reality of slavery as their recent history. 

The facts are that the majority of slaves can't have been Muslim. Most or a significant majority of the slaves in Brazil, Cuba, Haiti that I can think of came from modern day Angola/Congo region and they already had their own strong non Muslim religions. It's the ones from the more western regions imo

[Grafter]

15 hours ago, Grafter said:

 

Ive already said on here part of my ancestry and its not purely west african same with you no doubt so that argument about not bein from Ethiopia is bit unnecessary. Also the real point of mentioning Ethiopia was to state that Christianity is not the domain of the eurpoean.

/

@Trap God

I should have said the European enslaver. Your question was along the lines of can u be a Christian and pro black.

Honestly don't kno what's not to get

[Grafter]

9 hours ago, Trap God said:

VTEC has pretty much laid my take on what is a good interpretation of credible historical fact in relation to the Abrahamic faiths on the table

With regards to the practices of my father's ancestors its two totally different belief systems

Comparison would be the spiritual teachings of a 100 y/o Chinese monk on one hand, on the other the teachings of an Islamic scholar

/

The bit about Ethiopia was totally necessary imo (unless you were talking about it in terms of you actually having Ethiopian heritage)

Let's stay away from our subjective beliefs in 2017 for a minute and explore credible historical fact

My mother is "from Jamaica" which is nothing but a dead end road until I or she do tests to find out what her heritage actually is HOWEVER if I were to speculate or generalise

IMO the "Jamaicans" whos practices and culture has been least influenced by Europeans are the Maroons. As far as I'm aware there is no evidence of them practising any form of Christianity prior to it being introduced to them in the 1900's

With that said and with respect why are we talking about churches in Ethiopia and how is Ethiopia relevant to us as Jamaicans historically?

Not only is this an objective question but it's an important one if we're trying to get a better understanding of OUR history regardless of how far it takes us outside of our comfort zones

Ok so what is the belief system of your ancestors and how is it opposite? I really would like you to expand on this.

And is your heritage maroon? Not all of us have a maroon ancestry soooo you mentioning is as irrelevant as me mentioning Ethiopia is it not?

I wont reiterate the reason i brought up Ethiopia because its been said enough.

None of us are obligated to observe the religions of our ancestors. And your stance becomes totally unstuck considering the mix up prevalent in our ancestry as Jamaicans

My maternal grandma is as much black african (maroon) as she is arawak indian not to mention the rest. Who's ancient belief system must she follow?

We cannot separate our modern day beliefs from this conversation because you bought up practising Christianity in modern times as ur initial question. 

Additionally having knowledge of our history doesnt mean we cant follow whatever path to god we like. And i brought up rastas because it addresses this very confusion, what to follow? How to practice? Not sure, lets make our own thing which is relevant to our lived experience.

[Grafter]

No one is claiming Ethiopian ancestry in here

And i cant stand people who stop with Egypt.

My personal feeling is I'm completely uninterested in trying to practice any ancient systems or traditions. Love to learn because knowledge is power but that's it. Spiritually everything i need is already within.

Furthermore regards being Jamaican i have no issue with it. No issue with the fact we descend from slaves. Of course it never should have happened but it has and i dont feel ashamed or any less than anyone else in this world. Main reason being those of us alive today survived, we, our ancestors survived the middle passage survived 100s of years of brutality and not only are we alive we are fuckin thriving. We are stars in this world and a shining example of HUMAN strength and resilience

I don't need to go back an find where my ancestor was stolen from to feel good about myself or to fill any gaping hole in my identity. There is no hole

 

[Vtec]

49 minutes ago, Admin. said:

Romans imposed christanity on africa to ruin it yh loloooollol

Like christianity didnt ruin the roman empire

Technically Rome wasn't a Christian state until officially adopted by Constantine 325 AD in Nicea Turkey, and then held a serious of ecumenical council's to decide and vote what faith should and shouldn't be and what the nature of christ should be. Adapting to their hellenes deity worships along with what the Serapis figure was from Ptomley Soter I much earlier.

They infused their own deities like Jupiter who to the Greeks was Zeus -  http://www.crystalinks.com/romegods.html. In rome today the vatican in the main square there is a statue of St Peter (one of the 12 Disciples was formely that of Roman God Jupiter.) who apparently was Jebus right hand man

For Rome it was a politically and strategical war move for domination and land control. And renamed themselves the "Holy Roman Empire" today known as Catholism. (rome never fell, hidden in plain sight behind arosticracy, government and various ism's)

Further to back the bullshit of this religion is the amount of translations and re-workings and people today swearing their life over it, dying for it and the rest. Still new versions being released to current time with omissions and additions, tweaks and re-works.

200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.

1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.

315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.

382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).

500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.

600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.

995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.

1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.

1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.

1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.

1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.

1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.

1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).

1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).

1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).

1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).

1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).

1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).

1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.

1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.

1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.

1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.

1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.

1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.

1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.

1863 AD: Robert Young's "Literal" Translation; often criticized for being so literal that it sometimes obscures the contextual English meaning.

1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.

1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.

1952 AD: The "Revised Standard Version" (RSV); said to be a Revision of the 1901 American Standard Version, though more highly criticized. 

1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.

1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.

1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."

1990 AD: The "New Revised Standard Version" (NRSV); further revision of 1952 RSV, (itself a revision of 1901 ASV), criticized for "gender inclusiveness".

2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

[ag.]

1 hour ago, Grafter said:

No one is claiming Ethiopian ancestry in here

And i cant stand people who stop with Egypt.

My personal feeling is I'm completely uninterested in trying to practice any ancient systems or traditions. Love to learn because knowledge is power but that's it. Spiritually everything i need is already within.

Furthermore regards being Jamaican i have no issue with it. No issue with the fact we descend from slaves. Of course it never should have happened but it has and i dont feel ashamed or any less than anyone else in this world. Main reason being those of us alive today survived, we, our ancestors survived the middle passage survived 100s of years of brutality and not only are we alive we are fuckin thriving. We are stars in this world and a shining example of HUMAN strength and resilience

I don't need to go back an find where my ancestor was stolen from to feel good about myself or to fill any gaping hole in my identity. There is no hole

 

Lot of Jamos don't have this attitude tho. When historical discussions come up u rarely ever hear Ghana or Nigeria, Egypt is usually the first one. I know one Jamo guy who was arguing me down about the Ghana/ja link and he was wanting more to talk about how he's got Irish in him ? Funny thing is Jamaicans culture is celebrated by both white and black but they're still not happy with their lot lol

[Grafter]

8 minutes ago, ag. said:

Lot of Jamos don't have this attitude tho. When historical discussions come up u rarely ever hear Ghana or Nigeria, Egypt is usually the first one. I know one Jamo guy who was arguing me down about the Ghana/ja link and he was wanting more to talk about how he's got Irish in him ? Funny thing is Jamaicans culture is celebrated by both white and black but they're still not happy with their lot lol

First of all stop with the jamo talk

Second of all these are one or two anecdotes from people you are talkin to. Everyone is within their own stage of development just like you are. And its not just Jamaicans who claim egypt either. People are entitled to seek out where their ancestors hailed from as they so choose.

Go to Jamaica, have conversations with a range of Jamaicans and you will see that pride in our culture is at the forefront of our identity.

Don't understand your last point

[SLEAZE BALL]

16 hours ago, Trap God said:

Let's stay away from our subjective beliefs in 2017 for a minute and explore credible historical fact

 

7 hours ago, Grafter said:

Ok so what is the belief system of your ancestors and how is it opposite? I really would like you to expand on this.

And is your heritage maroon? Not all of us have a maroon ancestry soooo you mentioning is as irrelevant as me mentioning Ethiopia is it not?

I wont reiterate the reason i brought up Ethiopia because its been said enough.

None of us are obligated to observe the religions of our ancestors. And your stance becomes totally unstuck considering the mix up prevalent in our ancestry as Jamaicans

My maternal grandma is as much black african (maroon) as she is arawak indian not to mention the rest. Who's ancient belief system must she follow?

We cannot separate our modern day beliefs from this conversation because you bought up practising Christianity in modern times as ur initial question. 

Additionally having knowledge of our history doesnt mean we cant follow whatever path to god we like. And i brought up rastas because it addresses this very confusion, what to follow? How to practice? Not sure, lets make our own thing which is relevant to our lived experience.

 

No idea why you find it impossible to do something as simple as having a discussion from an objective point of view

What you don't understand is that I don't care to argue about peoples personal FEELINGS even less so someone such as yourself

History is the important thing here nothing more or less

I even put a disclaimer in before talking about the maroons by saying "IF I WERE TO SPECULATE OR GENERALISE"  but thats irrelevant because even if I didnt

How on earth is looking at the practices of JAMAICAN maroons the same as you mentioning Ethiopia. Do we both not have Jamaican heritage?

You know when you don't have a valid point so you just throw in a dash of false equivalence for good measure 

In all fairness youve done exactly what I expected you to and showed that part and parcel of embracing such beliefs is disregarding the culture and traditions your ancestors took part in pre-slavery

This is the only reason I think you can't truly be proud of where you come from and hold such beliefs

Imagine she has the audacity to scream she has no need to fill a gaping hole in her identity yet at the same time would take on the beliefs of some patchwork Abrahamic religion with an Ethiopian king crowned as god incarnate who required the assistance of Britain to fight against invasion by Italy

Gerroddahere

Could never be pro black subscribing to such nonsense

[Grafter]

You haven't answered any of my questions yet i have addressed your points

Laugh all you want but you seem to be the one who is very confused not me.

I never once said i was "pro-black" whatever u mean by that

You are just doin what you always do which is to change the argument when u are unable to respond. I always think better of u but that is my mistake

You really cannot tell me whether I'm proud of who i am and where i come from or whether i have a gaping whole in my identity. I can tell you and i have told you my position. My spirit has never felt more settled regards this subject.

You wanna be objective but look at your whole butt hurt post.

Asked you twice to explain why your traditional ancestral religion is opposite to Christianity but sounds like you dont even know anything about it. 

You are literally the only person getting all up in their feelings over this

 

@Trap God

 

[Grafter]

Not sure if you understand but being Jamaican does not equate to being maroon.

What is your response to your own mixed ancestry? None lol because ur hurting and confused over your identity

/

Can see how twisted your knickers got when u switch from addressing me directly to she, she she 

[JOHN DOE]

you two can never debate without becoming perosonal 

whether its to each other or to others 

no need to start berating each other 

this was a good discussion 

[dayomesaydayo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4997262/Black-man-launches-astonishing-racist-rant-tube.html