Norway: Blast near prime minister's office in Oslo

[Ulysses]

The media reporting of all of this has been an utter shambles. So quick to point the finger, and low and behold it's a child of hitler, blonde hair,blue eyes who is shooting up innocent children.

Will see a war against any christian fundamentalists? Do people even know that there are christian fundamentalist? or every time they hear the word they expect to see a brown person who is muslim?

Very sad. Yes it is unfortunate that the media was too quick to jump to conclusions. But there in no equivalency between christian "fundamentalism" and Islamic fundamentalism. As far as we know, he wasn't exactly shooting people, with a cry of "IN THE NAME OF JESUS", and how incongruous would that sound. Not only did he not follow the example of Christ in loving everyone as yourself and eschewing violence, he was a Freemason which is wholly incompatible with Christianity.

the difference between christian fundamentalism and islamic fundamentalism is the western christians have mastered the art of hypocrisy> these are the same people that were going to church while giving slaves a 'day off' to go to their separate churches too.

the same type of christians who killed and murdered entire cultures and civilisations in the name of 'god' and reforming them, stole their land and resources claiming another mans land for their king or queen, a king or queen who in their beleif was ordained by 'god' to rule over the lands.

the same type of christians today who fly in F-16s and ABRAHAM tanks to blow up 'enemies' whos only offence was being a citizen in their own country, who when they get killed are flown home as 'heroes' and buried in church affiliated parades, with members of the ruling class attending "christian" solidarity services paying respects to soilders who murdered innocent people in a war they never declared on the UK.

there is absolutely NO difference in the islamic fundamentalism and christian fundamentlism carried out by (as i continue to say) European and arab scum, they are both state sanctioned acts of terror, and western state sanctioned terror is more apprent than islamic terror, and the fact that you even give Glen beck an ounce of credibility and cant see his warped view of the world is a shame.

You're actually deliberately obtuse. You are immune to logic.

Point 1.

If giving Glenn beck an ounce of credibility, is saying he can say what he likes under his 1st amendment rights, and that he is not similar to one of America's, and the world's most wanted men al-Awlaki, then yes I give him an ounce of credibility.

Point 2.

What does 'christian fundamentalist' actually mean? In recent years it has been bandied about in pejorative sense. But originally if you are a fundamentalist, you are a person who aligns yourself as closely as possible with the 'fundamentals' of your faith and the example of the central figure of your faith. Logically, a fundamentalist follower of Jesus would be to dedicate one’s life to celibate pacifism. And not only that, it would be to give away all that one has to the poor and live in a commune where everyone shares everything and all possessions are in common.

The Christian fundamentalist who advocates that such an atrocity may be justified as a reactiont to multiculturalism is certainly no type of Christian. They may be fundamentalist, but their fundamentals are not founded upon New Testament principles, where we read that we must submit to the ruling authorities, love our neighbours and our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us.

No Christian tradition at all, from the era of the New Testament and the Church Fathers through the Middle Ages, Reformation, Enlightenment, and on to modernity and postmodernity, could possibly, reasonably or scripturally be used to justify the shooting of nearly a hundred teenagers enjoying their summer holiday.

With Islam, a particular kind of Muslim fundamentalist may pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan, and adhere to the Five Pillars; another will seek to wage war against the values of liberal democracy, blowing us all to smithereens and martyring himself in the process. The former is ‘devout’ while the latter has become an ‘Islamist’: the one who follows literally the example of Mohammed in bringing the sword to unbelief in order to establish the Caliphate. The life and teachings of Mohammed are manifestly different from that of Jesus Christ. Mohammad was a warrior first; and presided over massacres. The Koran and its Hadiths have many passages that exculpate the use of aggression, subjugation and violence. It is built-in to the very foundations of Islam.

Point 3.

There is no viable comparison between the sporadic violence of white supremacism and Islamism. The latter enjoys funding from nation states, membership into the thousands and popular support among millions of poor Muslims.

Point 4.

You continually hark back towards the outrages committed by people in years gone by, of people who happened to be christian. Again since I have made this point several times before, their hypocrisy and their evil could never and can never be justified theologically. You forget that the most fervent campaigners against slavery, against repression etc. etc. were more fervent and vigorous in their faith than the ones who were perpetuating those acts. i.e. the first college in America that admitted Black people was an evangelical college, John Brown, William Wilberforce.

But the profound difference is that Islamists unlike "christian Fundamentalists", have scriptural justification and the example of the central figure of their faith to carry out their acts.

Point 5.

You make a stupid and ill-thought argument about the role of Christianity and the Military. The people who fly F16s and Abram Tanks, are sent to war by politicians with secular war-aims; politicians who by the way are democratically mandated by the populace who on the whole are nominally christian. Why shouldn't they be given their respects and honoured with a christian service why would anyone begrudge them that? It is the political class that sends them to war, they are just doing their job. Would you want every soldier to go AWOL? Or indeed, should they only fight wars that are only acceptable to MARVELL? And this is the way it works in any democracy, the military does the bidding of the government, it takes orders. Again you conflate your idea of "western state terror" with Christianity - yes because NATO is currently sending thousands of missionaries to Afghanistan, and building lots of pretty churches in earth's version of Tatooine.

[RaiKkoNen]

How can his maximum sentance be 21 years???? joke ting

His sentence can be increased as long as he is deemed a danger to society (Under Norwegian law), and I'm pretty sure the judge will deem this blonde ponce a danger, don't you?

Swear some of you should write for the sun, with your faux outrage.

[8BALL]

He will serve the rest of his life behind bars. Smh at thinking otherwise.

[MARVELL]

cant be bothered to reply to you ulysses. ur just as stupid as glenn beck.

[MARVELL]

No Christian tradition at all, from the era of the New Testament and the Church Fathers through the Middle Ages, Reformation, Enlightenment, and on to modernity and postmodernity, could possibly, reasonably or scripturally be used to justify the shooting of nearly a hundred teenagers enjoying their summer holiday.

This is a lie, as millions died in the spanish inquisition sanctioned by the church of rome which was the ruling power of the day. tens of thousands were sent into exile, people were burned, hung, drawn and quartered, and even dead bodies were exhumed and burned in the name of 'heresy' which was mostly just people who dared to question aspects of the bible and political witch hunting.

Then hundreds of thousands more died at the crusades, which was again a political campaign wrapped up in christianity. fast forward to our time, GW bush said his 'conviction' from 'God' led him to act in iraq (even though, the whole operation was based on lies)..the result was over 1m deaths and counting.

you cannot have your cake an eat it, You stupid westernised idiots cannot disassociate these acts from christianity in the same way you cannot in turn associate these acts with Islam. of course, i beleive that the God in the bible would probably not sanction any of these acts carried out in his name by these co called christians....but it still means that evil has been carried out using the christian bandwagon. i am using the same basis for your claiming that there is islamic fundamentalism.

With Islam, a particular kind of Muslim fundamentalist may pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan, and adhere to the Five Pillars; another will seek to wage war against the values of liberal democracy, blowing us all to smithereens and martyring himself in the process. The former is ‘devout’ while the latter has become an ‘Islamist’: the one who follows literally the example of Mohammed in bringing the sword to unbelief in order to establish the Caliphate. The life and teachings of Mohammed are manifestly different from that of Jesus Christ.

This norwegan breh also believes that he was convicted by God and it was his christian right to carry out what he did. i see no difference with the muslim bomber blowing himself up to kill people, and Tony blair and the Queen going to church to pray for their 'god' to bless the souls of the dead soilder heroes.

There is no viable comparison between the sporadic violence of white supremacism and Islamism. The latter enjoys funding from nation states, membership into the thousands and popular support among millions of poor Muslims.

There is an absolute viable comparison. One is more 'civilised' to the people who belong to that nation carrying out the acts, because they are given very little details about the facts and there is a much more powerful network of distorted, biased, information dissemination that exists in the west than the middle east. but still carries out far more acts of terror than any other 'fanatical' mid east state.

i have already established the facts that both Europeans, and arabs are for the most part bastards of the so called religions they claim to generally follow. The European took christianity and poilticised it, and over the last 1000 yrs has learnt to 'appear' to keep church separate from the state, but its a fallacy. The Arabs, did exactly the same...mohammed was in hiding from his own people, hidden by the Africans who were also his followers...he was in hiding in Ethiopia. The arabs like the europeans..politicised islam using it to go to war and opress people into submission or death..they only ever cared about themselves and their stupid little tribes..NOT about all muslims..they have never liked africans (sudan is pure example)..thats why they went in and dessimated ethiopia after mohammed's death. Like.. europeans they have just used islam to colonise foreign people and plant division amongst them. but unlike the Europeans, they have not fine tuned this to be as deceiptful as the euro's.

Point 4.

You continually hark back towards the outrages committed by people in years gone by, of people who happened to be christian. Again since I have made this point several times before, their hypocrisy and their evil could never and can never be justified theologically. You forget that the most fervent campaigners against slavery, against repression etc. etc. were more fervent and vigorous in their faith than the ones who were perpetuating those acts. i.e. the first college in America that admitted Black people was an evangelical college, John Brown, William Wilberforce.

more patronising nonsense. as is said before there were "christians" who owned and sold slaves. of course, there would have been some who were totally against slavery, but they were in a minority. The whole abolition of slavery had NOTHING to do with having 'moral guilt'.. it was all financial. wilberforce himself was NEVER against the notion of slavery in itself.. go and READ facts about his so called fight for abolition. its the same way people think lincoln also wanted to free blacks out of morality..never. The same people who wrote the US constitution based on "christian values" saw the black man who is supposed to be God's creation as 1/3 human.

so pull your fat head out your stupid arse waving your morality flag defending christianity that stinks of sh*t, lies and hypocrisy. I have nothing against christianity or Islam (except that its just a rip off of christianity) but in terms of the actual practice and religion..theres nothing wrong with them. but the west has used christianity to commit crimes, and likes to point fingers when 3 are pointing right back at them.

But the profound difference is that Islamists unlike "christian Fundamentalists", have scriptural justification and the example of the central figure of their faith to carry out their acts.

again, this may be true, but the christians still find a way of justifying their evil. such as Bush did in iraq, and how the neo-cons in the US and europe continue to support israel that terrorist apartheid state, because of some apparent claim in the Bible that they are 'god's chosen ones'. of course..they will never say that should you ask..they will say israel is an 'ally'. The stupid undiplomatic muslim on the other hand will not learn from this and keep screaming allah about the place.

Point 5.

You make a stupid and ill-thought argument about the role of Christianity and the Military. The people who fly F16s and Abram Tanks, are sent to war by politicians with secular war-aims; politicians who by the way are democratically mandated by the populace who on

they are still affiliated to their faith. The show of solidarity witht he ruling class in churches confirms this.

and by the way, Islamic fundametalism for the most part is not really aimed at killing every non muslim in the west or wherever, it is fundamentally aimed at Israel and their attitude towards palestinians. The western coutries who colonised the mid east, just like they did in Africa..placed one tribe in supreme position of authority to serve their needs..at the expense of their people.

These people have attacked the west because of how the west indirectly attacks them, and in its support of israel. This is an assesment constantly being mentioned by experts who worked in govt, intelligence agencies and politicians in the west but the greater evil interest of the west clouds out this wise judgment, and makes fools like you want to hate islam or muslims as a whole, without understanding the real facts.

[Supermalt]

GLEEN BECK IS f*ckED

Norway shooting: Glenn Beck compares dead teenagers to Hitler youth

Glenn Beck, the leading Right-wing American broadcaster, has prompted outrage after comparing the teenage victims of the Utoya Island massacre to the Hitler Youth.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8660986/Norway-shooting-Glenn-Beck-compares-dead-teenagers-to-Hitler-youth.html

[JOHN DOE]

No Christian tradition at all, from the era of the New Testament and the Church Fathers through the Middle Ages, Reformation, Enlightenment, and on to modernity and postmodernity, could possibly, reasonably or scripturally be used to justify the shooting of nearly a hundred teenagers enjoying their summer holiday.

This is a lie, as millions died in the spanish inquisition sanctioned by the church of rome which was the ruling power of the day. tens of thousands were sent into exile, people were burned, hung, drawn and quartered, and even dead bodies were exhumed and burned in the name of 'heresy' which was mostly just people who dared to question aspects of the bible and political witch hunting.

Then hundreds of thousands more died at the crusades, which was again a political campaign wrapped up in christianity. fast forward to our time, GW bush said his 'conviction' from 'God' led him to act in iraq (even though, the whole operation was based on lies)..the result was over 1m deaths and counting.

you cannot have your cake an eat it, You stupid westernised idiots cannot disassociate these acts from christianity in the same way you cannot in turn associate these acts with Islam. of course, i beleive that the God in the bible would probably not sanction any of these acts carried out in his name by these co called christians....but it still means that evil has been carried out using the christian bandwagon. i am using the same basis for your claiming that there is islamic fundamentalism.

With Islam, a particular kind of Muslim fundamentalist may pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan, and adhere to the Five Pillars; another will seek to wage war against the values of liberal democracy, blowing us all to smithereens and martyring himself in the process. The former is ‘devout’ while the latter has become an ‘Islamist’: the one who follows literally the example of Mohammed in bringing the sword to unbelief in order to establish the Caliphate. The life and teachings of Mohammed are manifestly different from that of Jesus Christ.

This norwegan breh also believes that he was convicted by God and it was his christian right to carry out what he did. i see no difference with the muslim bomber blowing himself up to kill people, and Tony blair and the Queen going to church to pray for their 'god' to bless the souls of the dead soilder heroes.

There is no viable comparison between the sporadic violence of white supremacism and Islamism. The latter enjoys funding from nation states, membership into the thousands and popular support among millions of poor Muslims.

There is an absolute viable comparison. One is more 'civilised' to the people who belong to that nation carrying out the acts, because they are given very little details about the facts and there is a much more powerful network of distorted, biased, information dissemination that exists in the west than the middle east. but still carries out far more acts of terror than any other 'fanatical' mid east state.

i have already established the facts that both Europeans, and arabs are for the most part bastards of the so called religions they claim to generally follow. The European took christianity and poilticised it, and over the last 1000 yrs has learnt to 'appear' to keep church separate from the state, but its a fallacy. The Arabs, did exactly the same...mohammed was in hiding from his own people, hidden by the Africans who were also his followers...he was in hiding in Ethiopia. The arabs like the europeans..politicised islam using it to go to war and opress people into submission or death..they only ever cared about themselves and their stupid little tribes..NOT about all muslims..they have never liked africans (sudan is pure example)..thats why they went in and dessimated ethiopia after mohammed's death. Like.. europeans they have just used islam to colonise foreign people and plant division amongst them. but unlike the Europeans, they have not fine tuned this to be as deceiptful as the euro's.

Point 4.

You continually hark back towards the outrages committed by people in years gone by, of people who happened to be christian. Again since I have made this point several times before, their hypocrisy and their evil could never and can never be justified theologically. You forget that the most fervent campaigners against slavery, against repression etc. etc. were more fervent and vigorous in their faith than the ones who were perpetuating those acts. i.e. the first college in America that admitted Black people was an evangelical college, John Brown, William Wilberforce.

more patronising nonsense. as is said before there were "christians" who owned and sold slaves. of course, there would have been some who were totally against slavery, but they were in a minority. The whole abolition of slavery had NOTHING to do with having 'moral guilt'.. it was all financial. wilberforce himself was NEVER against the notion of slavery in itself.. go and READ facts about his so called fight for abolition. its the same way people think lincoln also wanted to free blacks out of morality..never. The same people who wrote the US constitution based on "christian values" saw the black man who is supposed to be God's creation as 1/3 human.

so pull your fat head out your stupid arse waving your morality flag defending christianity that stinks of sh*t, lies and hypocrisy. I have nothing against christianity or Islam (except that its just a rip off of christianity) but in terms of the actual practice and religion..theres nothing wrong with them. but the west has used christianity to commit crimes, and likes to point fingers when 3 are pointing right back at them.

But the profound difference is that Islamists unlike "christian Fundamentalists", have scriptural justification and the example of the central figure of their faith to carry out their acts.

again, this may be true, but the christians still find a way of justifying their evil. such as Bush did in iraq, and how the neo-cons in the US and europe continue to support israel that terrorist apartheid state, because of some apparent claim in the Bible that they are 'god's chosen ones'. of course..they will never say that should you ask..they will say israel is an 'ally'. The stupid undiplomatic muslim on the other hand will not learn from this and keep screaming allah about the place.

Point 5.

You make a stupid and ill-thought argument about the role of Christianity and the Military. The people who fly F16s and Abram Tanks, are sent to war by politicians with secular war-aims; politicians who by the way are democratically mandated by the populace who on

they are still affiliated to their faith. The show of solidarity witht he ruling class in churches confirms this.

and by the way, Islamic fundametalism for the most part is not really aimed at killing every non muslim in the west or wherever, it is fundamentally aimed at Israel and their attitude towards palestinians. The western coutries who colonised the mid east, just like they did in Africa..placed one tribe in supreme position of authority to serve their needs..at the expense of their people.

These people have attacked the west because of how the west indirectly attacks them, and in its support of israel. This is an assesment constantly being mentioned by experts who worked in govt, intelligence agencies and politicians in the west but the greater evil interest of the west clouds out this wide judgment, and makes fools like you want to hate islam or muslims as a whole, without understanding the real facts.

[MARVELL]

GLEEN BECK IS f*ckED

Norway shooting: Glenn Beck compares dead teenagers to Hitler youth

Glenn Beck, the leading Right-wing American broadcaster, has prompted outrage after comparing the teenage victims of the Utoya Island massacre to the Hitler Youth.

http://www.telegraph...tler-youth.html

he's using his first amd rights.

if this was said by someoen with the name AL-hussein..people like ulysses will instantly associate this with islam(even if he wasnt a cleric). but now they only call glenn beck 'right wing'.. yet he constantly talks about 'God' and speaks with christian clerics who support his racist, anti-muslim fraff.

/

john doe you should be reading you should be out jogging you fat 15 stone 5'9 c*nt

[JOHN DOE]

..

[NiNES.]

No Christian tradition at all, from the era of the New Testament and the Church Fathers through the Middle Ages, Reformation, Enlightenment, and on to modernity and postmodernity, could possibly, reasonably or scripturally be used to justify the shooting of nearly a hundred teenagers enjoying their summer holiday.

This is a lie, as millions died in the spanish inquisition sanctioned by the church of rome which was the ruling power of the day. tens of thousands were sent into exile, people were burned, hung, drawn and quartered, and even dead bodies were exhumed and burned in the name of 'heresy' which was mostly just people who dared to question aspects of the bible and political witch hunting.

Then hundreds of thousands more died at the crusades, which was again a political campaign wrapped up in christianity. fast forward to our time, GW bush said his 'conviction' from 'God' led him to act in iraq (even though, the whole operation was based on lies)..the result was over 1m deaths and counting.

you cannot have your cake an eat it, You stupid westernised idiots cannot disassociate these acts from christianity in the same way you cannot in turn associate these acts with Islam. of course, i beleive that the God in the bible would probably not sanction any of these acts carried out in his name by these co called christians....but it still means that evil has been carried out using the christian bandwagon. i am using the same basis for your claiming that there is islamic fundamentalism.

With Islam, a particular kind of Muslim fundamentalist may pray five times a day, fast during Ramadan, and adhere to the Five Pillars; another will seek to wage war against the values of liberal democracy, blowing us all to smithereens and martyring himself in the process. The former is ‘devout’ while the latter has become an ‘Islamist’: the one who follows literally the example of Mohammed in bringing the sword to unbelief in order to establish the Caliphate. The life and teachings of Mohammed are manifestly different from that of Jesus Christ.

This norwegan breh also believes that he was convicted by God and it was his christian right to carry out what he did. i see no difference with the muslim bomber blowing himself up to kill people, and Tony blair and the Queen going to church to pray for their 'god' to bless the souls of the dead soilder heroes.

There is no viable comparison between the sporadic violence of white supremacism and Islamism. The latter enjoys funding from nation states, membership into the thousands and popular support among millions of poor Muslims.

There is an absolute viable comparison. One is more 'civilised' to the people who belong to that nation carrying out the acts, because they are given very little details about the facts and there is a much more powerful network of distorted, biased, information dissemination that exists in the west than the middle east. but still carries out far more acts of terror than any other 'fanatical' mid east state.

i have already established the facts that both Europeans, and arabs are for the most part bastards of the so called religions they claim to generally follow. The European took christianity and poilticised it, and over the last 1000 yrs has learnt to 'appear' to keep church separate from the state, but its a fallacy. The Arabs, did exactly the same...mohammed was in hiding from his own people, hidden by the Africans who were also his followers...he was in hiding in Ethiopia. The arabs like the europeans..politicised islam using it to go to war and opress people into submission or death..they only ever cared about themselves and their stupid little tribes..NOT about all muslims..they have never liked africans (sudan is pure example)..thats why they went in and dessimated ethiopia after mohammed's death. Like.. europeans they have just used islam to colonise foreign people and plant division amongst them. but unlike the Europeans, they have not fine tuned this to be as deceiptful as the euro's.

Point 4.

You continually hark back towards the outrages committed by people in years gone by, of people who happened to be christian. Again since I have made this point several times before, their hypocrisy and their evil could never and can never be justified theologically. You forget that the most fervent campaigners against slavery, against repression etc. etc. were more fervent and vigorous in their faith than the ones who were perpetuating those acts. i.e. the first college in America that admitted Black people was an evangelical college, John Brown, William Wilberforce.

more patronising nonsense. as is said before there were "christians" who owned and sold slaves. of course, there would have been some who were totally against slavery, but they were in a minority. The whole abolition of slavery had NOTHING to do with having 'moral guilt'.. it was all financial. wilberforce himself was NEVER against the notion of slavery in itself.. go and READ facts about his so called fight for abolition. its the same way people think lincoln also wanted to free blacks out of morality..never. The same people who wrote the US constitution based on "christian values" saw the black man who is supposed to be God's creation as 1/3 human.

so pull your fat head out your stupid arse waving your morality flag defending christianity that stinks of sh*t, lies and hypocrisy. I have nothing against christianity or Islam (except that its just a rip off of christianity) but in terms of the actual practice and religion..theres nothing wrong with them. but the west has used christianity to commit crimes, and likes to point fingers when 3 are pointing right back at them.

But the profound difference is that Islamists unlike "christian Fundamentalists", have scriptural justification and the example of the central figure of their faith to carry out their acts.

again, this may be true, but the christians still find a way of justifying their evil. such as Bush did in iraq, and how the neo-cons in the US and europe continue to support israel that terrorist apartheid state, because of some apparent claim in the Bible that they are 'god's chosen ones'. of course..they will never say that should you ask..they will say israel is an 'ally'. The stupid undiplomatic muslim on the other hand will not learn from this and keep screaming allah about the place.

Point 5.

You make a stupid and ill-thought argument about the role of Christianity and the Military. The people who fly F16s and Abram Tanks, are sent to war by politicians with secular war-aims; politicians who by the way are democratically mandated by the populace who on

they are still affiliated to their faith. The show of solidarity witht he ruling class in churches confirms this.

and by the way, Islamic fundametalism for the most part is not really aimed at killing every non muslim in the west or wherever, it is fundamentally aimed at Israel and their attitude towards palestinians. The western coutries who colonised the mid east, just like they did in Africa..placed one tribe in supreme position of authority to serve their needs..at the expense of their people.

These people have attacked the west because of how the west indirectly attacks them, and in its support of israel. This is an assesment constantly being mentioned by experts who worked in govt, intelligence agencies and politicians in the west but the greater evil interest of the west clouds out this wide judgment, and makes fools like you want to hate islam or muslims as a whole, without understanding the real facts.

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[8BALL]

Anyone got a link to the manifesto?

[Mr Q]

Beck is an odious c*nt.

[Ulysses]

and by the way, Islamic fundametalism for the most part is not really aimed at killing every non muslim in the west or wherever, it is fundamentally aimed at Israel and their attitude towards palestinians.

Their end goal is to establish a world-wide Islamic Caliphate, where freedom of religion is non-existant, as it already is in so many Islamic countries.

Please stop Marvell, you're not making any sense. You argue where there is no dispute, and you even unknowingly support my main points.

When I say christian tradition, I mean a Christian thinker in the tradition of Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Niebuhr not the state you idiot. Again yes all these things have been done by Christians, but you are forgetting my point, as the maxim says WWJD or in this case what would Jesus have done. Could these people who have committed these excesses really claim they were following the example of Christ Jesus? I have made this point over and over again and again, but you seem to be failing to understand the nuance of my argument. So let me make it plain and clear for you:

CHRISTIANITY'S CORE BELIEFS IN DEALING WITH THE WORLD ARE FOUND IN JESUS'S SERMON ON THE MOUNT. THE CRUSADES, SLAVERY ETC ETC. CAN NEVER BE SCRIPTURALLY JUSTIFIED BY THE GOSPEL. THE GOSPEL EXHORTS CHRISTIANS TO LOVE THEIR ENEMY AND FORGIVE EASILY ETC. ETC. PLEASE FIND A PASSAGE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT JUSTIFIES SLAVERY, HOLY WAR, AND THE SUBJUGATION OF OTHER PEOPLES. YOU CANNOT BUT THESE THINGS CAN BE FOUND IN ISLAM. AND ITS PROTAGONIST, THE PROPHET MOHAMMAD, PARTOOK IN ALL OF THESE ACTIONS. AND NOTE THAT IN THIS RELIGION MOHAMMAD IS THE PERFECT HUMAN BEING, SO BEING THE PERFECT HUMAN BEING, AND THE PROPHET OF ALLAH, OBVIOUSLY SOME MUSLIMS WILL HAVE NO COMPUNCTION ABOUT EMULATING SOME OF THE MORE UNDESIRABLE ASPECTS OF HIS LIFE. Their is no need to "politicise" their religion as you put it , The Quran, The hadiths, the main schools of Islam, the most powerful imams, all exhort holy war and the subjugation of other peoples. It is theologically sound in their religion.

So obviously I am not saying all Muslims are bloodthirsty people, (and I do not hate Muslims at all I am just stating facts) but someone like Bin Laden can quote from from the Quran and the Hadiths, their most venerable scriptures, to support their misdeeds. Could this Brevik guy quote from the Gospel to support his act? Even still, his outrage is a statistical anomaly compared to the many outrages committed by Islamists.

Islamists receive popular support from Muslims all over the world. Osama was one of the most popular baby names in Northern Nigeria after 9/11. For a lot of people and mainstream Imams, his actions are righteous, and justifiable by Koranic scripture. How many pastors, priests, vicars, deacons or Bishops have come out in support of this Norwegian guy?

From riots in Northern Nigerian slaughtering Christians, to murdering people in Pakistan for "insulting" Islam, all of these actions have their base in the Quran and the Hadith. A Fatwa was issued to kill Salman Rushdie, because he "insulted" Islam. These acts of violence have their foundation in their interpretation of their religion. I mean the media are insult Jesus all the time nothing happens, but they are too cowardly to say anything about Islam, but for good reason, they don't want to be in fear of their lives. The so-called religious war in Northern Ireland, was bereft of any one side using scriptural references to justify their actions.

Was the Iraq War primarily a Holy war? was its intention to Christianize the Middle East. Of course not you idiot. How many branches of KICC have you seen in Kabul and Baghdad. But for Hezbollah, Iran et al., their main aim is to establish a World-Wide Islamic Caliphate.

How can I hate Muslims, how can I hate anyone, I have relatives and close friends who are Muslims, I am not saying every Muslim is a Jihadist, I am just stating indisputable facts.

Don't bother debating with me again you're not on the levels.

[Benicio del Toney]

so man was just playin dis tune, walkin around bodyin ppl smh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKLpJtvzlEI

Chilling.

[Afroman]

God Forgive. But,

This whole ordeal will make a very good movie.

What a sick theme as well to choose to carryout his ordeal.. Extra-ordinary stuff.

[Fighting Weight]

God Forgive. But,

This whole ordeal will make a very good movie.

What a sick theme as well to choose to carryout his ordeal.. Extra-ordinary stuff.

You think like an American. Have you ever considered moving here?

[Supermalt]

Ulysses..

flawless victory

fack

[Ulysses]

so man was just playin dis tune, walkin around bodyin ppl smh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKLpJtvzlEI

Chilling.

Chilling is the right word. This sh*t is so sad. What an evil motherf*cker.

It's dumb how the media are trying to link his playing of COD to this sh*t though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8663329/Norway-Anders-Behring-Breivik-used-online-war-games-as-training.html

Edit to Marvell: In reference to my last post, I should have emphasized more plainly the fact that my rant was in reference to a very small but vocal minority of Muslims and that I did not mean to tar a whole group of people with a jihadist or Islamist brush. I do not hate Muslims at all. Also the media was utterly disgraceful in rushing to claim that the terrorist attack was perpetrated by Islamic Extremists, without any basis or facts.

Also Marvell, I am not a Zionist, there should be a Palestinian State, and I do not know to the death of me why so many Christians so uncritically and blindly support Israel. I do not co-sign Glenn Beck in any way shape or form, I just happen to think that although he is tasteless he has a right to say what he wants, and the same right should be afforded to people like Anjem Choudary. Like trolls on the internet it would be better to just ignore them. Also I am not attempting to be an apologist for all the horrendous crimes committed by the Christian West, although I stand by the main point of my argument.

[Niall Ferguson]

Ulysses is probably the most clever poster in the history of the interwebs.

[MARVELL]

Ulysses is probably the most clever poster in the history of the interwebs.

you would say this because you are probably one of the the dumbest persons to post on the interwebs.

all he wrote there was drivel, running away from the two faces of christianity and what has been carried out in its name.

he accuses one side of an embedded tradtional belief in violence, while the does not have such embedded tradition. Yet the record shows that the violence is still associated with christianity whether you like it or not. He is comparing extreme islam with contemporary christianity. How fair is that?

When has iran threatened to attack the UK?, or Hamas, or any of the 'non alqaeda' affiliated sects? These are all political organisations 100% only concerned about their INternal political affairs that the WEST has been interfering with for the last 50 yrs.

alqaeda was not set up so destroy the west and establish a supreme caliphate around the world. It was set up to wage war against the powers behind the opression of Palestine, and to Rid the Middle east of the corrupt puppet governments that pander to the west . and pandering to the west isnt just being friends with them, its making sure that there is NO opposition to said govt in that country, to keep receiving 'Aid' (always 90% militarily and the rest 10% to be shared amongst the govt cronies) from the west to keep them in power.

To get rid of the US bases in the middle east and all forms of Western Military establishment, which NONE of the mid east citizens themselves requested.

If the middle east countries had their way they with the right govts in power would easily be able to resolve the israel crisis in a matter of months, and without firing one bullet.

The middle east regards the west as christian states, and they are well aware of what was carried in their land. That evila affiliation with christianity continues today.. (some American F-16's that targetted iraq and killed civilians had [ FROM MOSES TO SADDAM] ) sprayed onto their missiles.

John Hagee the american chistian pastor, was the "spiritual" advisor to John Mcain, and he has CONSTANTLY called for the US govt to attack Iran to Ironically 'prevent' WW3. Same goes for Pat buchanan, and Pat robertson who was also a top 'spiritual' advisor to GW Bush.

You are an absolutely Naive idiot if you do not see how over the last 50 years based on world events, Muslims or anyone anywhere in the world would not affiliate the evil acts of the west with christianity. There may not be churches set up in Kabul, but there were CIA spies embedded with missionaries. i have clearly said that i accept that the politics carried out today associated with christianity is not christian, but constantly claiming that such evil is not in the bible is waste, cos The people in the mid east are not reading the bible to know this isnt so, they are seeing what happens in their own countries, and they are seeing ...just like you what happens to them personally, or being shown on their media...and their media lie to them in the same way your media lies to you.

all you are going by in your attacks against islam and politics is what YOU see, and what are TOLD, why should the same not apply to unemployed 19yr old in the mid east who lost his uncle to a US fighter Jet bomb, Or his Father to the dicatator financially and militarily supported by the US??? SO LET ME MAKE THIS SIMPLE FOR YOU TOO : IT IS IRRELEVANT IF THE POLITICS OF THE WEST EVEN IF IS NOT BIBLICAL, WHEN MUCH OF THE EVIL THEY DO HAS CLEAR AFFILIATIONS WITH CHRISTIANITY....TO THE NON CHRISTIANS WHO OBSERVE OR SUFFER THIS HAND OF EVIL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO OTHER WAY OF KNOWING HOW.

Have you read the koran? have you read any of these 'terror' organisations manifestoes that declared they are to establish a world wide caliphate By force and by killing innocent civiilans all over the west? show us these manifestos and where they exist

[Fighting Weight]

He was being sarcastic still

[Black Casper]

This Pat Robertson guy that Marvell mentioned

Is he the guy who owns that CBN network?

[MARVELL]

yea, the one who said it was voodoo that led to haiti's downfall

[Ulysses]

i have clearly said that i accept that the politics carried out today associated with christianity is not christian

The Bible in Proverbs 26:5 tell us to “Answer a fool according to his folly”, and I shall do just that.

So you have agreed with me, what then is your dispute? Because I know that my quarrel was not about US foreign policy which you have continually harked on about.

"IT IS IRRELEVANT IF THE POLITICS OF THE WEST EVEN IF IS NOT BIBLICAL, WHEN MUCH OF THE EVIL THEY DO HAS CLEAR AFFILIATIONS WITH CHRISTIANITY....TO THE NON CHRISTIANS WHO OBSERVE OR SUFFER THIS HAND OF EVIL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO OTHER WAY OF KNOWING HOW."

Perhaps then it would be better for them to extirpate their ignorance.

But then again i don’t think ignorance is the right word, they are not children. And yet it is carried as an excuse in the persecution of non-muslims in muslim majority countries. Their reasoning follows this logic: I am a Muslim man in Indonesia, my muslim brothers in Palestine are suffereing, this suffering is caused by the west, the west is nominally christian (and their foreign policy is secular), so I will do my part in striking back at the indfidel: I will behead three young indonesian christian girls. What these did young girls have to do with US foreign policy?

http://www.christianity.com/Christian%20Living/Christian%20Living%20Main/11561212/

And this is logic that is followed from Northern Nigeria to Sudan, to Iraq.

You think John Hagee or Pat Robertson had any impact on US foreign policy, to the previous adminstration they were frankly useful idiots to them. David Kuo a former senior Presidential aide, said the Bush administration used evangelical Christians to win votes but then privately ridiculed them once in office. He pointed out that,"National Christian leaders received hugs and smiles in person and then were dismissed behind their backs and described as ridiculous, out of control, and just plain goofy,".

http://web.archive.org/web/20070927200116/http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm

While Hizb ut-Tahrir "professes" to pursue a restoration through peaceful political action and intellectual engagement, others groups, like al-Qaeda, do so through force. See the below link:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,369448,00.html

This is getting quite long now. Don't bother replying.

Neg away motherf*ckers

[Ulysses]

Debunking 6 Myths

1. Anders Behring Breivik was a Fundamentalist Christian

Breivik described himself as not a religious person and mentions praying only once. His plans leading up to the attacks involved multiple visits to prostitutes. In one section of his manifesto he clarifies what he means by Christian.

On page 1361, in the course of a bizarre self-interview, he asks this question:

“Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?”

Here’s the main part of his answer:

“It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a “Christian fundamentalist theocracy” (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage(what we do want).” In the manifest “do not” and “do” are in boldface.

"... It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy"

He later asks (pg 1403): “Are you a religious man, and should science take priority over the teachings of the Bible?”

His answer: “As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic.”

Breivik did call himself a Christian, but meant that in a cultural sense, rather than a theological one. He emphasized that he was not seeking a theocracy, but a secular society. His idea of a Christian Europe had nothing to do with religion.

2. Anders Behring Breivik Hated Muslims

Breivik viewed Muslims as the enemy, but only domestically. He emphasized that; "Knights Templar do not intend to persecute devout Muslims"

And he contemplated collaborating with them on terrorist attacks against Europe. "An alliance with the Jihadists might prove beneficial to both parties... We both share one common goal." The Caliphate was a useful enemy for his cause.

In Breivik's own words, this is how such an arrangement would play out;

"They are asked to provide a biological compound manufactured by Muslim scientists in the Middle East. Hamas and several Jihadi groups have labs and they have the potential to provide such substances. Their problem is finding suitable martyrs who can pass “screenings” in Western Europe. This is where we come in. We will smuggle it in to the EU and distribute it at a target of our choosing. We must give them assurances that we are not to harm any Muslims etc."

Ask yourself is these are the words of a anti-Jihadist who was fighting against Islam. Or a delusional European terrorist who was willing to ally with Jihadist against his fellow Europeans.

Breivik spells out that he is willing to kill Europeans on behalf of just about anyone...

There might come a time when we, the PCCTS, Knights Templar will consider to use or even to work as a proxy for the enemies of our enemies.

Under these circumstances, the PCCTS, Knights Templar will for the future consider working with the enemies of the EU/US hegemony such as Iran (South Korea is unlikely), al-Qaeda, al-Shabaab or the rest of the devout fractions of the Islamic Ummah with the intention for deployment of small nuclear, radiological, biological or chemical weapons in Western European capitals and other high priority locations.

Justiciar Knights and other European Christian martyrs can avoid the scrutiny normally reserved for individuals of Arab descent and we can ensure successful deployment and detonation in the location of our choice.

This should put to rest any idea that Breivik was on a crusade against Islam. He was a deluded man who imagined himself leading a takeover of Europe, even if he had to serve as a Muslim proxy to do it.

3. Anders Behring Breivik was Inspired by Counterjihad Bloggers

Except Breivik didn't actually kill Muslims. Instead he claimed to be part of a modern Templar Knights organization that was going to take over Europe. Breivik played role playing video games obsessively. One of his favorites was Dragon Age, one of whose characters is a Templar Knight who hacks his way to power.

Did the game inspire Breivik to become a modern Templar Knight? As much as Catcher in the Rye inspired the murder of John Lennon.

Breivik was manic depressive and using steroids while obsessively acting out power fantasies. He built up a fantasy world that convinced him he could become, "...a hero of Europe... A perfect example which should be copied, applauded and celebrated. The Perfect Knight I have always strived to be."

Trying to apply rational standards to Breivik is futile. Like many killers he was of above average intelligence, but below average sanity. Remove the politics, and Breivik fits the profile of most spree killers. He was angry at society, a loner, suffered from mental problems, abused drugs (in his case steroids) and acted out violent scenarios in violent video games.

4. Anders Behring Breivik was Pro-Israel

Breivik was in favor of allying with Israel, India and other minorities in the Muslim world as part of the struggle against Islam. The idea that he was a Zionist or felt any particular affinity for Israel is baseless. Rather Breivik describes the majority of German Jews as disloyal and suggests that if Hitler had deported them, instead of exterminating them he would have become a hero.

If the NSDAP had been isolationistic instead of imperialistic (expansionist) and just deported the Jews (to a liberated and Muslim free Zion) instead of massacring them, the anti-European hate ideology known as multiculturalism would have never been institutionalized in Western Europe

Breivik does mention that large numbers of Jews would have to be executed as Class A or Class B traitors, but urges targeting by political belief, rather than by race.

5. Anders Behring Breivik was a Moderate

Breivik pretended to be a moderate for tactical reasons. He explored National Socialism and formulated his own plan under another name. In his social networking, he describes, "sharing “moderate” resources from my book on debate groups to coach fellow cultural conservatives". The quotation marks around moderate is in the original.

While most have swallowed the idea that Breivik was a counterjihadist, his actual plan was to exploit tensions over Muslim terrorism, in order to conduct a campaign of terrorism against European targets and seize power with a more stable version of National Socialism.

Breivik was not a Nazi himself, for tactical reasons, because he disagreed with Nazi expansionism. But his own plan called for the use of WMD's in Europe and the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of traitors. The echoes of the Turner Diaries are very obviously present in his manifesto.

6. Anders Behring Breivik was a Political Terrorist

Breivik was not a member of a terrorist group, except in his own fantasies. His plan was to carry out an attack and become the hero of Europe. This is fairly typical lunacy. His plans were grandiose and detached from reality.

His main target was a children's camp, his final notes are frenzied and he mentions having his thinking clouded by steroid withdrawal.

Breivik did have a plan, but it is detached enough from reality that it can hardly be called a serious political program. He did succeed in killing a large number of people, but so have many other lunatics. Nothing that Breivik did was the work of a sound mind.

Comparisons have been made to the Unabomber, but the Columbine killers and numerous others also come to mind. Including Charles Manson. Breivik's program was just as grandiose as Manson's, and just as deluded. Both hoped that a serious of violent acts would touch off a larger war that would enable them to take over.

Breivik is as much a political terrorist as Manson, and can no more be considered part of any larger cause, beyond the malformed chemicals in his own brain.