7 CHASED & BEAT - 1 STABBED - ALL JAILED

[Black Ant]

they say we are defined by the company we keep.

its a damn shame all round.

[Goddaz]

They are using a loophole in some draconian law to bamboozle juries and lock up a bag of youths that did not deliver and did not have any intention of delivering a fatal blow

I hear what your saying & c/s almost everything you've said in the thread. However, that is a grey area for me especially in this case. It's hard to prove 'gang' members didn't have such intentions unless their lifestyle can be proved beyond doubt not to contain characteristics of a person that would do such things. Even then, they'll still be a question mark for me because those with squeaky clean backgrounds have gone & committed such crimes.

Here's something worth pointing out I just clocked:

There was a teenage rivalry between two gangs, Shanks and Guns or S & G and the Black Mafia, also known as the Sydenham Boys. In the afternoon of May 5 it is believed the two groups confronted each other in the park.

When Nicholas arrived, his friends, who were members of the Black Mafia, had disappeared and he was left on his own.

/

As a black man, I'm very sceptical & weary of the court system using Joint Enterprise legislation to lock up brothers. Obviously I'm not excusing anyone based on colour. If you did the crime & it's proven you must do the time. I just don't want America in the UK.

[SLEAZE BALL]

OK you say its hard to prove 'gang' members didn't have such intentions unless their lifestyle can be proved beyond doubt not to contain characteristics of a person that would do such things

For me that isn't even an issue

The issue is about JUSTICE based on the evidence presented, not whether we THINK they did it

Firstly as far as the law goes the onus is never on a defendant to PROVE their innocence, its for the crown to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

For a defendant to be found guilty by a jury it should mean that given the evidence presented at court there can be NO OTHER reasonable explanation other than the scenario offered by the prosecution.

That said how can the prosecution go about PROVING something that in most cases is purely speculation and conjecture?

In this particular case you have guys pleading not guilty to joint enterprise murder on the grounds that THEY DID NOT KNOW THEIR FRIEND HAD A WEAPON

This is the only legal basis on which they have to plead not guilty as the way that joint enterprise murder works when a weapon is involved is if secondary parties did not know their friend had a weapon they could not foresee him producing this weapon and so should subsequently be found not guilty of joint enterprise murder EVEN IF IT WAS 500 MAN RUSHING 1 YOUT

Unless there is a witness that says they did know how can we be sure that such a conviction is SAFE as it clearly involves the jury speculating as to what the defendants did or didnt have knowledge of?

Second regardless of a persons character each criminal trial should be based on the evidence regarding that particular incident, speculation should not play ANY PART in ANY murder trial.

[JOHN DOE]

PAWSED

[Goddaz]

@ Vtec

All realistic solutons imo won't work. The problems (on both sides) that need fixing are deep rooted & will take years & years to put right. No one is prepared to put their money where their mouth is coz lets face it no one really cares. Those that can make differences just see it as 'there' problem, only when it hits them do they do anything about it & even then, it's never to solve the big issues behind problems like poverty, education, the media etc.

As for now, harder sentencing & making examples of criminals may reduce & possibly deter some but not the majority. When I was doing my ting way back when I didn't give to shits about the come backs of my actions. Now, these new youngers are on a next ting.

[Black.]

Dirty coons they should be hanged

[Goddaz]

@ O.J Simpson

So you really think justice is only 'based on the evidence presented'?

I'll address the rest of your post after you answer the above question.

Regarding the joint enterprise issue, you'd have to agree the 'inflict serious harm' applies in this case nah?

In a normal murder charge the prosecution have to prove the defendant either intended to kill or cause serious bodily harm.

But the law of joint enterprise is much looser and allows someone to be prosecuted for murder if they foresaw that another member of the group might kill or inflict serious harm.

[Afroman]

Dirty coons they should be hanged

I read a similar statement with regards to this on storm front..

This art of blackman calling the next man a coon to separate himself from the rest is comical imo

We are still painted with the same brush..

[SLEAZE BALL]

@ O.J Simpson

So you really think justice is only 'based on the evidence presented'?

I'll address the rest of your post after you answer the above question.

Regarding the joint enterprise issue, you'd have to agree the 'inflict serious harm' applies in this case nah?

In a normal murder charge the prosecution have to prove the defendant either intended to kill or cause serious bodily harm.

But the law of joint enterprise is much looser and allows someone to be prosecuted for murder if they foresaw that another member of the group might kill or inflict serious harm.

I believe there is no point in the courts existence if verdicts are not reached based solely on the evidence.

Whether in reality it is or not is a different matter totally

/

No serious harm does not apply in this case as a weapon was used

[Black.]

I'm black

[SLEAZE BALL]

And for all you f*cknuts promoting capital punishment get your head out your ass

If you had the SENSE to look at FACTS and FIGURES before you started giving your baseless opinion you would know the murder rate in states WITH the death penalty is CONSISTENTLY HIGHER than those without

The death penalty DOES NOT deter murderers and INNOCENT PEOPLE DIE because of failings in the justice system

The only and I mean only pos of capital punishment is that it costs less to inject someone with a lethal dose than to keep them in prison for the rest of their life

[JOHN DOE]

Dirty coons they should be hanged

I read a similar statement with regards to this on storm front..

This art of blackman calling the next man a coon to separate himself from the rest is comical imo

We are still painted with the same brush..

link `to stormfront thread

[Vtec]

OK you say its hard to prove 'gang' members didn't have such intentions unless their lifestyle can be proved beyond doubt not to contain characteristics of a person that would do such things

For me that isn't even an issue

The issue is about JUSTICE based on the evidence presented, not whether we THINK they did it

Firstly as far as the law goes the onus is never on a defendant to PROVE their innocence, its for the crown to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

For a defendant to be found guilty by a jury it should mean that given the evidence presented at court there can be NO OTHER reasonable explanation other than the scenario offered by the prosecution.

That said how can the prosecution go about PROVING something that in most cases is purely speculation and conjecture?

In this particular case you have guys pleading not guilty to joint enterprise murder on the grounds that THEY DID NOT KNOW THEIR FRIEND HAD A WEAPON

This is the only legal basis on which they have to plead not guilty as the way that joint enterprise murder works when a weapon is involved is if secondary parties did not know their friend had a weapon they could not foresee him producing this weapon and so should subsequently be found not guilty of joint enterprise murder EVEN IF IT WAS 500 MAN RUSHING 1 YOUT

Unless there is a witness that says they did know how can we be sure that such a conviction is SAFE as it clearly involves the jury speculating as to what the defendants did or didnt have knowledge of?

Second regardless of a persons character each criminal trial should be based on the evidence regarding that particular incident, speculation should not play ANY PART in ANY murder trial.

I hear what your saying.

But whatever the finite detail is, they still all colluded into this persons life being ended. Mob mentality, during the frenzy of the chase, pride and egos and rage anger and adrenaline of the chase.

Almost primal when you think about it, to an extent. (i know, i've been involved rush downs myself cant lie during school/college days, when you catch em, yes you give em hiding)

When they guy is caught, yes it only takes one person to inflict the death blow. But when hes crouched in a ball defending and in pure fear. Can he single out his killer? and if the attack was witnessed from an outsider. Unless the geeza with the knife is carrying a sword or making it obvious hes carryin out the stabbing, who's to pinpoint the exact killer at the time when a group are laying into him with fists and kicks as well. everyone is guilty as far as i'm concerned.

So if they all get off scot-free, leave one of there mans to serve the time (call him a don and to hold it down), don't you think. That further fuels the feeling of invincibility and lawlessness as they where involved. Giving themselves pats on the back, step into dances, acting like ghetto superstars claiming they are real badman and don't ramp wid us etc...

Then you get your retaliation,

vicious cycle.

too many peeps sucked in it. And cant see the wood through the trees.

Playing into the hands of the powers that be. (the sitting on top laughing, knowing we are our own worst enemy) Divide and conquer still in effect.

(again, if you wanna take it down the justice and technicalities of evidence...I understand where you are coming from)

But still... I would throw the book at them if I was judge.

And it needs to be done more and more. But still the current system does not work even then.

one day revolt will happen.

Gonna take some real shift into respecting values of life.

[Esquilax]

Capital Punishment is NOT the answer at all

There are countless people who have been wrongly murdered by the state because they think they were the culprit of the crime

Can you imagine getting lethally injected for a crime you had no part in? The whole thing is fundamentally flawed.

[SLEAZE BALL]

Bruv in the most respectful way ever your talking a bag of s

Its clear you've based your opinions on information its obvious noone in their right mind has so yeah I dnt even know why im typing

NOBODY in this topic said they should all get off scott free

NOT ONE PERSON

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

NEITHER DO YOU.

All we are saying is that if a person is caught doing a crime they should be convicted of their crime NOT SOMEONE ELSES!

And the weirdest thing about what your saying is that YOU YOURSELF HAVE RUSHED MAN IN THE PAST?!!???

ARE YOU SAYING YOU DESERVE TO GET LIFED OFF?

[SLEAZE BALL]

@VTEC

[Yung bawse]

lol some people on here go on like they're 'from the bits' then when somehing like this happens change into some politician type guy who's never been involved in any sort of hype..

lol at going on like everything was planned out and everyone knew they was about to become murders..1 guy got hype and went OTT..it happens..that's why you have to know your peoples..learnt that the hard way.

[The Somalian]

^^good point tbh

everyone does it

its a human trait

[Vtec]

Beating someone up and killing someone is a bit different. You get whatever punishment accordingly if caught and part of imo

Anyway im not trying to convert you to my opinion.

Just seeing an obvious problem beyond the shock headlines which is never fully addressed.

and thought I could discuss it.

you don't agree fair enough.

Yes in the past as school kids, not serious at all just, play fights older and younger years or different houses etc...

[SLEAZE BALL]

so if your in a car with your mate and he runs someone over you should get done for dangerous driving as well yeah

ok pal

[SLEAZE BALL]

sounds like a f*ck*ng splendid idea to me

[Vtec]

lol some people on here go on like they're 'from the bits' then when somehing like this happens change into some politician type guy who's never been involved in any sort of hype..

lol at going on like everything was planned out and everyone knew they was about to become murders..1 guy got hype and went OTT..it happens..that's why you have to know your peoples..learnt that the hard way.

These things are not planned, but still that one hype guy, who everyone knows is a bit nutty. Why can ur knock some sense into him hold you scared of him? (not you literally)

then when they learn the hard way, its all tears and redemption and acting the good boy and now model citizen playing up to the authorities. (he just wants his freedom back asap.

Yeah maybe its human trait, to have to learn the hard way.

But what about prevention. Hence I said earlier, starts within the home, raising kids etc...

if you don't see it, you don't see it.

And if you cant prevent, then what kinda solution to reduce whats going on?

[Vtec]

so if your in a car with your mate and he runs someone over you should get done for dangerous driving as well yeah

ok pal

ok....

[Yuri]

so if your in a car with your mate and he runs someone over you should get done for dangerous driving as well yeah

ok pal

pos

[Bobby Reds]

I'm black

your also a clown