Suarez found guilty of racially abusing evra

[Horatio Caine]

suarez is guilty....ders no point defending him, its not even a cultural thing because he said it while arguing with evra.....

[Flojo]

Well if Liverpool made a complaint about Evra using an offensive term,

Which he did IMO by his own testimony,

But surely as after hearing what Evra said during the hearing, it seems as if Suarez wasn't offended by it. So.......

I'd hope upon hearing the news of what Evra said, someone at United would've had a word with him in no uncertain terms regarding his future conduct and what is and isn't acceptable.

If Liverpool were to bring this up to the FA. On my mothers life I wouldn't be supporting Evra the way your club and fans have done Suarez,

From when a man admits his guilt in sonething, the level of support you offer them has to be limited

But as I said, ut seems as if Suarez wasn't offended enough to bring up some sort of "counter claim" upon hearing what Evra had said.

If my house gets robbed, and I don't report it to the police, they will do nothing, won't cone to dust for prints and I will not get a crime reference number.

Laughable. If a rule is broken, it's broken and offence being taken isn't the determining factor.

Suarez pointed out the reference Evra made to his heritage in the hearing and the FA dismissed it because they'd never heard of sudamericano being used as an insult, apparently the context of it being 'don't touch me you south american' is irrelevant. It's funny when context is and isn't relevant isn't it?

I'm sure if Carragher had said to Drogba 'don't touch me you African' nobody would have a problem with that would they?

It was a sham of a hearing and you know it.

[TF S4DK]

Sham or not, you can't defend Suarez anymore FFS. Stop deflecting. Once you've done that then you can look at others and its the failure for your club to do this from the off is why everyone finds you laughable.

[Flojo]

Keep up I said pages ago the club f*cked this up. I aren't deflecting anything, I've answered everything anyone has asked head on.

People thinking I'm laughable probably matters as much to me as people thinking you're a SAS cheerleader matters to you, not arsed.

I think it was a misunderstanding, you don't.

[Fresh]

Suarez is a c*nt

/thread

[TF S4DK]

My comment was a general one, the use of you meant Liverpool FC and then its fans that head down the same silly road as the club.

I think it was what it was, and that is something that didnt need to get this far.

[Flojo]

There are plenty of Liverpool fans who think the club f*cked up in their handling of the situation.

What was it and why do you think it got this far?

[Fighting Weight]

Flojo is odt

If my girl ever suspects me of cheating on her, I'd like you to be the man to defend me.

[Benicio del Toney]

More from the report

Mr Giggs gave evidence before us. He said that he was reasonably close to the referee and after he had shown Mr Evra the yellow card, Mr Giggs approached the referee and asked him why he had booked Mr Evra. The referee said to Mr Giggs "just calm Patrice down".

Mr Giggs then moved away from the referee and towards Mr Evra. It was obvious to Mr Giggs from looking at Mr Evra that he was upset. He said that Mr Evra did not seem quite with it, you might call it red mist. Mr Giggs said to Mr Evra "what's happened?". Mr Evra replied "he called me black". Mr Giggs assumed that Mr Evra was speaking about Mr Kuyt since he had just been booked for some kind of tussle with Mr Kuyt. Mr Giggs said to Mr Evra "did the ref hear it?", to which Mr Evra replied "I don't think so". Mr Giggs then told Mr Evra to calm down and not get himself sent off.

Mr Kuyt gave a slightly different version from Mr Marriner, Mr Evra and Mr Giggs. He said that after the goal-kick he was close to Mr Evra and said "Come on, let's move on, let's keep going with the game" and touched Mr Evra just on the arm. According to Mr Kuyt, Mr Evra reacted aggressively and smashed his arm away and at that point, the referee having seen the incident, called Mr Evra to him and booked him. Mr Kuyt said that he was very close to Mr Evra and the referee at this time. He said he was "absolutely certain" that he heard Mr Evra say that the referee was only booking him because he was black.

We found the evidence of Mr Marriner on this point to be credible and plausible. He recalled Mr Evra telling him that he was being called black. This is consistent with Mr Evra's evidence of what he told Mr Marriner at that time, and also with Mr Giggs' evidence of what Mr Evra said to him shortly afterwards. In light of this we reject Mr Kuyt's evidence that Mr Evra said that the referee was only booking him because he was black, however certain Mr Kuyt was that he heard it. Moreover, it would make no sense in the circumstances for Mr Evra to accuse the referee of only booking him because he was black. Not only had Mr Evra pushed Mr Kuyt away, which he is likely to have realised had led to his booking, but his concern at that stage was that he had been called black (bearing in mind that, at the very least, Mr Suárez admits having called Mr Evra "negro" by this stage of the game).

Mr Evra's comments to his team-mates. There was no evidence of any further exchanges between Mr Evra and Mr Suárez during the remaining 25 minutes or so of the game. Two goals were scored in that period, first by Steven Gerrard in the 69th minute, followed by a Hernández equaliser in the 81st minute.

We received evidence from four of Mr Evra's team-mates about what happened immediately after the game. They were [Antonio] Valencia, [Javier] Hernández, Nani and Anderson. Their evidence was given in the form of written witness statements. These were served on Mr Suárez on 16 November 2011 with the Charge letter. Mr Suárez did not require any of these four players to attend the hearing for cross-examination and so Mr Suárez accepted their evidence in full. We proceeded, therefore, on the basis that the evidence contained in those witness statements is true and sets out what did, in fact, happen immediately after the game.

As the players went into the dressing room at the end of the game, Mr Evra was really angry and upset. Valencia said he could see it. He explained that Mr Evra is not normally angry after games. Mr Evra said that he was angry because Mr Suárez had insulted him.

Mr Evra was speaking a mix of Spanish and Portuguese. All the Spanish and Portuguese players at Manchester United speak to each other like this so that they can all understand and talk to each other.

Valencia said this: "I cannot remember exactly the words Evra used but he said that Suárez had said that he wouldn't speak to him because he was black. I think the words Evra used were words similar to "Negro, no hablas conmigo"."

Hernández saw that Mr Evra was angry and upset. He said this: "Although I was stood with the medical staff, I could clearly hear Evra as he was speaking loudly. He said that during the game, Suárez said to him words similar to "No voy a platicar contigo porque eres negro".

I understood from what Evra said that Suárez had been racially abusive towards him and that he had told Evra that he would not speak to him because he was black."

Nani said that he always sits close to Mr Evra in the dressing room and at the end of the game when he came into the dressing room, Mr Evra was upset. Nani said: "I cannot remember exactly what Evra said but he was complaining that Suárez had said something racist towards him. He said that Suárez had said that he wouldn't talk to him because he was black. When he said this in English I think he used the word "nigger" but in Spanish/Portuguese he used the word "negro" or "preto", I cannot remember exactly which.

Evra was also angry that Suárez had not been booked for saying what he did. Evra said something like, "This is a joke. How is it possible that the referee does nothing when he knows what happened?" Evra said that he had told the referee what Suárez said to him.

Anderson said that Mr Evra was really angry in the dressing room after the match. He said: "I cannot remember all the exact words Evra used but he told us that Suárez had said to him on the pitch that he wouldn't speak to Evra because he was black. I think he used words similar to "no hablo con negro"."

Mr Evra said in evidence that some of the other players could see that he was upset and asked him what was wrong. He said that Mr Suárez had called him a nigger and said that he had kicked him because of that. Mr Evra said that he told the other players that Mr Suárez had said "porque tu eres negro". We note that Mr Evra did not say in his own evidence that he had told his team-mates that Mr Suárez had said he would not speak to him because he was black. However, we accept that Mr Evra did say this to his team-mates after the match because that is what all four of them say in their statements and their evidence has been accepted in full by Mr Suárez. It is possible that Mr Evra also told them that Mr Suárez had said he had kicked him "porque tu eres negro", and this was not recalled by the players.

Valencia and Anderson told Mr Evra that he must tell the manager and go and see the referee because this was serious. When Sir Alex Ferguson and Mr Evra left the dressing room to go and speak to the referee, Valencia and Anderson followed them. They wanted to support Mr Evra but they were not allowed into the referee's room, only Mr Evra and Sir Alex Ferguson went in.

Sir Alex Ferguson and Mr Evra speak to the referee. Sir Alex Ferguson provided a witness statement. The FA served his statement with the Charge letter on Mr Suárez, who did not require Sir Alex Ferguson to attend the hearing.

As a result, as in the case of the four Manchester United players, Mr Suárez accepted in full the evidence of Sir Alex.

Sir Alex said that as he was speaking to David De Gea, Mr Evra approached him. He said "Boss, Suárez called me a nigger." It was obvious to Sir Alex that Mr Evra was upset and angry. Sir Alex was shocked and asked Mr Evra what he wanted to do about it. Sir Alex told him that he should report it to the referee and asked Mr Evra if he wanted to do that.

Mr Evra said that he did.

Sir Alex and Mr Evra went to the referee's room. Sir Alex went in first, followed by Mr Evra. Sir Alex told Mr Marriner that they had a complaint to make. Sir Alex told him "Evra has been called a nigger by one of the Liverpool players." Sir Alex then motioned for Mr Evra to tell the referee what had been said. The referee told Phil Dowd, the fourth official who was also in the room, to take notes of what was said. Mr Evra then told the referee what had been said to him on the pitch and left the room. The referee told Sir Alex that he (the referee) would need to speak to Liverpool officials about the complaint.

Mr Evra said that he told the referee that Mr Suárez had called him a nigger. According to Mr Evra, the referee said to him "Oh, that is why you were talking about being called black", referring back to what Mr Evra had said to the referee on the pitch. Mr Evra said "Yes."

[Benicio del Toney]

So Evra didn't admit to saying

"Don't touch me you South American"?

Even if he did say it, that was after being called black, it's not obvious it was a sarcastic response to Suarez?

Being sarcastic warrants a ban?

[Flojo]

No it wasn't, it was in response to him being called sudamericano according to Suarez.

Evra didn't admit to saying sudamericano. The FA believed him.

Suarez didn't admit to saying negro 10 or 5 times by Evra but admitted saying it once. They didn't believe him and charged him for saying it 7 times.

Evra's own testimony shows he went from saying 'he called me a black' to 'he called me a nigger' in the space of 40 minutes. They see nothing wrong with this.

Another vital point in this is that Evra was shown video footage to help jog his memory of what happened. Suarez asked for the same courtesy and was refused it, they then go on to say his testimony was unreliable because it didn't match the video.

It's also worth mentioning that Evra's first witness statement was 'lost' so wasn't able to be cross referenced to check for further inconsistencies.

[Bobby Reds]

Not read the 29 pages

but smh at anyone defending racisim.

period.

[Lens]

lionel ritchie is black

robbie fowler is white

he wanted to go as ritchie why wouldnt he make himself look as close to ritchie as poss

not racist

this is getting silly now

hold up. man are saying blackface isn't racist?

blackface is a racist technique used when people don't want to pay black performers to perform black roles in cinema and on stage.

did You whiten Your skin when You dressed up for halloween while younger?

[MARVELL]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083403/Liverpool-racism-allegations-Police-probe-Tom-Adeyemi-breaks-tears.html

go on FLO

[Black.]

It was probably fojo just asking for his autograph but got his words mixed up

[Benicio del Toney]

No it wasn't, it was in response to him being called sudamericano according to Suarez.

Evra didn't admit to saying sudamericano. The FA believed him.

From what I understand Evra supposedly said "Don't touch me you South American" after they both spoke to the referee and Suarez tried to pat Evra's head.

That woulda been after the initial confrontation.

Manchester United faced Liverpool in a Premier League match. In the 57th minute Suarez fouled Evra and tempers flared at the next corner. They squared up to each other and Evra asked why Suarez kicked him. Suarez said he should forget about it, these things happen. Evra claims Suarez then became racially abusive, using the word 'negro'. Suarez denies using the word in that clash. Evra is clearly wound up, but nearby players do not seem particularly bothered.

A few minutes later Marriner calls the pair together. Suarez apologises and tries to pat Evra on the head. It is alleged Evra said: 'Don't touch me, you South American,' to which Suarez replies: 'Porque, negro?'

Suarez didn't admit to saying negro 10 or 5 times by Evra but admitted saying it once. They didn't believe him and charged him for saying it 7 times.

Evra's own testimony shows he went from saying 'he called me a black' to 'he called me a nigger' in the space of 40 minutes. They see nothing wrong with this.

They charged Suarez for saying it numerous times because they didn't believe Suarez's version of events based on the reaction of both players caught on video and the supposed progression of the conversation.

Suarez's testimony doesn't lend itself to a natural conversation between 2 people, especially when you take into account Suarez had fouled Evra just before that, what Suarez is saying is not logical.

He used the term black and nigger interchangeably because saying "you black so and so" or "you nigger so and so" in Spanish is literally the same thing.

If Suarez had been speaking English, where the 2 words have a distinct difference, then yes maybe you could say Evra was lying about what word was actually used.

Another vital point in this is that Evra was shown video footage to help jog his memory of what happened. Suarez asked for the same courtesy and was refused it, they then go on to say his testimony was unreliable because it didn't match the video.

Well it makes sense to let Evra see the footage as he brought the case about.

Suarez only said it "once" apparently, so why does he need to see the video?

What else could he have elaborated on?

[Flojo]

Another vital point in this is that Evra was shown video footage to help jog his memory of what happened. Suarez asked for the same courtesy and was refused it, they then go on to say his testimony was unreliable because it didn't match the video.

Well it makes sense to let Evra see the footage as he brought the case about.

Suarez only said it "once" apparently, so why does he need to see the video?

What else could he have elaborated on?

No offence bruv but are you taking the piss?

For a the neutral party in a hearing to give the accuser access to evidence that is withheld from the defendant is a joke, It isn't even debatable. What do you mean by what was there to be elaborated on, if they felt it necessary to show it to Evra for him to elaborate on his side of the story then Suarez is due the same courtesy.

Suarez didn't admit to saying negro 10 or 5 times by Evra but admitted saying it once. They didn't believe him and charged him for saying it 7 times.

Evra's own testimony shows he went from saying 'he called me a black' to 'he called me a nigger' in the space of 40 minutes. They see nothing wrong with this.

They charged Suarez for saying it numerous times because they didn't believe Suarez's version of events based on the reaction of both players caught on video and the supposed progression of the conversation.

They charged Suarez with saying it 7 time it says in the report,

In total, Mr Suarez used the word "negro" or "negros" seven times in the penalty area

The video doesn't reveal anything that was said as it states in the report

We examined closely the video footage of this moment which took place in the 64th

minute. When the referee blew his whistle to stop play, Mr Evra and Mr Suarez were

standing close to each other, having just run and challenged for the corner. The referee

called them over to him. Mr Suarez said something to Mr Evra, then started to walk away.

Suarez didn't admit to saying negro 10 or 5 times by Evra but admitted saying it once. They didn't believe him and charged him for saying it 7 times.

Evra's own testimony shows he went from saying 'he called me a black' to 'he called me a nigger' in the space of 40 minutes. They see nothing wrong with this.

He used the term black and nigger interchangeably because saying "you black so and so" or "you nigger so and so" in Spanish is literally the same thing.

If Suarez had been speaking English, where the 2 words have a distinct difference, then yes maybe you could say Evra was lying about what word was actually used.

No it isn't.

There is no spanish word for nigger, Suarez says in the report

There is no word that means "Nigger" in Spanish

The experts go on to say

The experts considered it worth noting that the phrase "porque tu eres negro" struck both

of them as slightly unusual. In this instance, a direct racial slur would more likely have

been something like "porque eres un negro de mierda" (because you are a shitty black).

Evra admits in the report himself that negro doesn't mean nigger

It seemed to us that Mr Evra's understanding of the Spanish word "negro" was influenced

by his knowledge of Italian. In his interview with the FA on 20 October, Mr Evra said that

he thought "nero" meant "black", whereas "negro" meant "nigger". This was what he

thought from his knowledge of Italian, and he went away to check the position in Spanish.

However, he did say in that same interview that it was still unacceptable to be told that

you had been kicked because you were black. The expert witnesses told us that the

Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as "nigger".

[MEIRELES.]

lmao

Fuck Evra and his lying self.

[Benicio del Toney]

There doesn't have to be a Spanish word for nigger because nigger means black, plain and simply.

Any variation of niger, neger, negro, negress etc... means black, any language deriving from Latin will have a similar word for black.

The only difference is nigger is an English pejorative, the way Suarez used negro to Evra was in a pejorative manner.

The same way somebody who says "you negro c*nt" is using the term negro in a derogatory manner, it's not the word alone, it's the intent and that is the idea behind nigger, nothing else.

This is key, regardless of if Evra was confused or not on the word.

However, he did say in that same interview that it was still unacceptable to be told that you had been kicked because you were black.

So Evra made up the other times Suarez said the word?

The pinch (caught on camera) wasn't in reference to Evra's colour?

Come on.

[Benicio del Toney]

Etymologically, negro, noir, nègre, and nigger ultimately derive from nigrum, the stem of the Latin niger (black)

In the United Kingdom and the Anglophone world, nigger denoted the dark-skinned (non-white) African and Asian (i.e., from India or nearby) peoples colonized into the British Empire, and "dark-skinned foreigners" — in general.

This is what I was saying, nigger is the exact same word as negro, just the English version which later became used as a pejorative.

Suarez is wrong, the Spanish word for nigger IS negro.

/

This debate with you has actually alerted me to something else.

Hungarian: néger is neutral, feka (little black one) is pejorative

Remember that thread I made "The N word" when I thought I heard a woman behind me in a bar call me nigger?

The woman was Hungarian which would suggest she did actually say what I thought but, according to the above, indicate she didn't use the word in a racist manner at all.

Remember when I said my friend in front of me (half a metre infront) didn't hear it at all either?

My case would actually back up the claim of De Gea not hearing anything despite standing so close to them.

And this isn't even taking into account the noise at a football match.

The only difference in my case is I heard the woman say it once, I assumed at the time it was racist, but I said nothing.

But if I were to have said something why would I need to elaborate on it being said multiple times?

That isn't necessary to bring about a racial abuse case, once is enough.

My own very similar recent experience should prove to you that Evra's version of events could have occurred despite no witnesses being able to verify it.

[Flojo]

Suarez is wrong, the linguistic expert is wrong, the South American continent is wrong.

You and Evra should get together and tell them what the rest of their language means.

[Afroman]

SMFH.

@ the antics at anfield (oldham)

Scummy

[HangTheDJ]

Trust but you can't label the whole fanbase as racist 'cos of it. Seems a Liverpool fan has given a statement about it.

The whole 'booing' of the player thing is being over exaggerated too. 99% of the stadium aren't gonna have a clue what happened, see some footballer shout at a fan and then go through one of their players, of course he's gonna get booed.

Still, it's the last thing Liverpool need at the minute.

[Benicio del Toney]

Evra was wrong aswell, I don't see where the linguistic expert makes that claim.

The definition of nigger is the same as negro as the above.

The confusion comes because nigger has taken on a more specific usage in the last 100 years plus has fallen out of favour as an everyday term.

[FANTA]

anyone truth in the rumours of Downing being arrested last night for beating up his girl?