The Official Manchester United Thread

[Agony]

What has Ferguson seen to make him think Moyes needs more time?

2 March, 2014 • By Joe

It is fair to say that this season so far at Manchester United has not gone as anyone would have expected. We were humiliated in the summer transfer window, points have been dropped against teams we would normally beat without getting out of second gear, and whispers from the dressing room of player discontent have refused to go away. However, Sir Alex Ferguson claimed on Sunday that David Moyes will come good for Manchester United, saying ‘it’s early days and there have been a few changes’ in an attempt to back up this view.

It is very difficult to know what the great man has seen so far this season to suggest to him that Moyes is the right man to steer the United ship through these troubled waters. On his appointment, the most compelling argument that could be made for him (aside from the nonsense of his being ‘cut from the same cloth’ as Ferguson) was that we didn’t know how he would adapt to managing the global behemoth that is Manchester United, and it could be that managing a club on a level far above what he had known before would allow him to raise his managerial style to a similar level. Well, we now have some idea about how he would react to managing the biggest club in the world, and unfortunately for him and us, instead of raising his game to United’s level, he has brought United down to his.

I feel it prudent to say at this point that at the start of the season, although Moyes had not been my first choice to replace Ferguson, I was prepared to cut him some slack and give him as much support as possible. I knew this season would be a struggle, but was content to see it out and only judge him after two seasons. Had there been any signs of improvement this season then I would still be thinking like this. Had our results been down to experimenting with exciting new systems and blooding the youngsters, I would have accepted our league position, knowing that this would have led to better results in the future. However, if anything, we have got worse and worse this season, as one drab, soul-destroying game follows the next. This style of football has gone on long enough for anyone to see that it is not working and the fact that Moyes has stubbornly persisted with it is what leads me to doubt Ferguson’s claim.

As Ferguson has said, there have been a few changes, so before we go any further let’s take the time to analyse these changes and how they have affected the squad. Firstly, Moyes axed Ferguson’s old backroom staff, full of proven winners, and replaced them with coaches either with no experience of winning trophies, or no experience of coaching at all. Then, in an unprecedented move for the Glazer era, the manager was extremely open regarding our potential transfer targets in the summer, leading to egg on the faces of all of the Old Trafford executives when one by one these transfer targets either moved elsewhere, or signed the contract with their existing club they had been trying to engineer all along through their public flirtations with United.

The start of the season arrived and with that came further changes. A team previously full of ruthless professionals with a win-at-all-costs mentality has been turned into a collection of whinging primadonnas who buckle under the first signs of any pressure and then bemoan bad luck and refereeing decisions to cover up for their lack of quality; and a swashbuckling, counter-attacking style has been sacrificed for defensive-minded, turgid and uninspiring dross. Unfortunately for Moyes, no change has occurred in the areas which blighted Ferguson’s last few years at the club, so we are still desperately short of quality in midfield, and hampered in the transfer market compared to the growing number of petrodollar-fuelled clubs thanks to our leeching owners (although all the noises regarding ‘warchests’ coming out of Old Trafford suggest that is set to change in the summer).

So with a continuation of all that was bad about the tail-end years of the Ferguson era, and changes involving much that was good about it, what has Ferguson seen that the rest of us have missed to suggest to him that Moyes will come good? Well, let us not forget that it was made very public that Ferguson was the one to pick Moyes. At Bayern Munich, Pep Guardiola appears well on the way to creating his second contender for the ‘greatest team ever’ in just a four and a half year managerial career, and Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea are beginning to look ominous once again, so it’s fair to say that most fans’ top two choices for the role of Ferguson’s successor are doing significantly better than Moyes is at United. Were Ferguson to admit that he had made the wrong choice, how would it look to the fans? More importantly, how would it make David Moyes feel, knowing that virtually his one supporter throughout this ordeal of a season has lost faith in him? Add to that the fact that Ferguson is still a director at Old Trafford, and it makes it impossible for him to take any stance other than total support for Moyes. His pride and his position as a director means that, short of burning down Old Trafford and urinating on Ferguson’s statue, Moyes’s support from Ferguson is virtually assured, publicly at least.

There is another, more cynical side to all of this, however. Ferguson spent 27 years at the club and when he retired, his status as one of the greatest managers the game has ever seen and as a club legend was never in doubt. Could his decision to appoint Moyes when other, more accomplished managers were available be one final attempt to show his genius? It was widely agreed last season that it was a poor team which won the title – could the appointment of Moyes be an attempt from Ferguson to show just how good an achievement it was from him to win the league with that squad last season? Similarly, hypothetically, how would it have looked if Guardiola had come in, bringing Thiago, Fabregas, and God-knows-who-else, along with a ruthless and inventive style with him as he tiki-taka’d United to two Champions League titles in five years, matching Ferguson’s tally in 27? Obviously, this scenario is totally hypothetical and we will never know if that would have been the case but you can bet the thought crossed Ferguson’s mind before he made the decision of who to appoint as his successor.

So although on the surface Ferguson’s claims might have seemed strange to most fans, dig a little deeper and his motives become clear. His stubbornness, which we all came to know so well during his 27 years at the club, coupled with a desire to be seen as the managerial genius that he is, means that it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to consider his support for Moyes as little more than an attempt to cement his own legacy in United’s history.

Do you think it is time for David Moyes to be sacked at United? Comment in the section below.

http://redmancunian.com/2014/03/02/ferguson-seen-make-think-moyes-needs-time/

[Kompressor]

This miscommunication about Moyes "axing" the backroom staff needs re-wording. 

 

Rene was asked to stay, but due to the style of Moyes in regard to wanting to take training Rene rightly saw it as a demotion and chose to leave. 

He was then apparently offered the job of being in charge of the Youth set-up.

 

There's plenty of genuine things to slap Moyes up with....

lets try ignoring the Myths 

[JOHN DOE]

he did axe phelan and steele

[Agony]

Meulensteen– who was first team coach under Sir Alex Ferguson– contradicted Moyes’ claims that he gave him the opportunity to remain at the club last summer.

Ahead of first return to Old Trafford tomorrow, Meulensteen said: “I wasn’t offered anything whatsoever. We just discussed the situation as it was and we came to a mutual decision that I think it was better for myself and for David to part ways.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/458611/Rene-Meulensteen-says-Man-Utd-boss-David-Moyes-never-offered-me-anything

[Kompressor]

he did axe phelan and steele

 

 

Think people we're disappointed in Steele being let go. Didn't hear anyone crying about Phelen 

[Kompressor]

 

Meulensteen– who was first team coach under Sir Alex Ferguson– contradicted Moyes’ claims that he gave him the opportunity to remain at the club last summer.

Ahead of first return to Old Trafford tomorrow, Meulensteen said: “I wasn’t offered anything whatsoever. We just discussed the situation as it was and we came to a mutual decision that I think it was better for myself and for David to part ways.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/458611/Rene-Meulensteen-says-Man-Utd-boss-David-Moyes-never-offered-me-anything

 

 

That statement doesn't really make sense. 

So he wasn't offered anything? meaning he was sacked/dismissed? 

 

then he also says "we discussed the situation" meaning what exactly? 

 

If Moyes had decided to let him go and not offer him a position, what are they discussing?

 

 and we came to a mutual decision 

 

 that I think it was better for myself and for David to part ways.

Contradiction?

 

His contradiction is riddled with contradictions. his statement doesn't make any sense. If he has made any clearer statements I'd be happily to re-asses my view of how things went down.

 

 

Or have i missed something. 

 

The clubs line is pretty straight forward. 

 

basically

Rene spent most of the last few seasons taking training and had a controlling role in the way things went day to day on the training pitch whilst obviously taking some direction from Fergie who generally only spent a couple days a week on the training field. 

 

Moyes likes to spend every day on the training field and have a controlling role thus rendering Rene's role as obsolete, Rene quite rightly didn't fancy taking a demotion. So it was decided to part ways.  

 

This makes total sense. Rene's statement doesn't imo

 

Either his contract was terminated by the new manager and he was dismissed, or they came to a mutual agreement and decided that it was better for him to leave. he can't have it both ways. he needs to decide what line his gonna take and stick to it. 

 

right now he's saying it was my decision to leave, but the manager didn't offer me anything and told me I had no job? 

[TF S4DK]

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

 

Moyes was announced before season was over...

 

Moyes in that May/early June period had probably set in motion other stuff, word spreads...

 

Rene doesn't get a call, assurances from Ferguson or the club... Goes on holiday... Talks to people about Moyes working history and suspects he doesn't fit in... Naturally gets set in motion, for your next move, gotta be reactive, can't be sitting around like Phelan was...

 

Moyes confirms his moves and before you end up face to face in a one on one meeting, you know what the outcome is, everything is a demotion when you got an agent saying there is clubs out there for you to be #1, and there was, Anji, it just ended very badly there and at Fulham lol.

[Kompressor]

Correct. 

 

 

This line he has put out about not being wanted has been widely reported by the club as false. Why would the club go out there way to claim that they wanted to keep Rene but not even respond to the claims of the other staff. Notably Eric Steele. who arguably had the most reason to be aggrieved.

[Kompressor]

@barneyrednews: Alex Ferguson: "I told David Gill, 'Ask Madrid for £150m for Cristiano Ronaldo.' 'Don't be silly,' he said... Perez would have paid."

[darkman]

 

Carlo is top 3 in the world. CV is impeccable. Man management 2nd to none

Truss

I been a fan of his since Juve

 

 

Top 3?

[zoot]

[Young £]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2kbpj7KPh4#t=182

[Captain Planet]

[Agony]

Record breaker: The unwanted milestones Moyes could clock up this season

West Brom (A)

The Baggies claimed their first Old Trafford victory since the 1978-79 season back in September, and are aiming for their first double over the Reds since that campaign.

Liverpool (H)

No records at stake per se, but the Anfield club have only finished above United once in the Premier League era (2001-02) and would be almost dead certs to do so again with a win in this fixture.

West Ham (A)

Perhaps one of the least worrying games of the run-in in terms of landmark results, but United haven't lost a top-flight fixture against West Ham since 2007.

City (H)

The Blues have not picked up three consecutive wins at Old Trafford since claiming five in a row between 1968 and 1972.

Aston Villa (H)

Another game where no real record is on the line, though United have lost just twice to Villa in the Premier League since August 1995 - a run of 36 games.

Newcastle (A)

The Magpies have not done the league double over the Reds since the 1930-31 season, when a 4-3 home win and 7-4 away victory underlined the Tyneside club's superiority for a single campaign at least.

Hull City (H)

Hull have never won a game at Old Trafford in their entire history and former United defender Steve Bruce will hope to end that run this season.

Everton (A)

Having won at the Reds' home for the first time since 1992 earlier this season, the Toffees are now in pursuit of a first league double since 1969-70. On that occasion, United played Everton twice in six days - with a game against Southampton sandwiched in between for good measure!

Norwich (H)

Chris Hughton's men are chasing their first win at Old Trafford since August 1989 when they claimed three points as Gary Pallister made his debut.

Sunderland (H)

The Mackems have already beaten United on their own turf this season in the Capital One Cup, but have not done the same in the league since May 1968. George Best scored in that game as Matt Busby's side suffered a 2-1 defeat.

Southampton (A)

You have to go back to the 1988-89 season to find the last time Southampton took four points off the Reds, which they would match on the final day of the campaign should they get a win.

[Greens]

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Shinji Kagawa is aiming to impress for Japan in their friendly against New Zealand in a bid to force himself into Manchester United manager David Moyes' plans.

 

The Japan international has struggled for form and playing time under Moyes this season, but the 24 year-old is determined to use the World Cup warm-up fixture to prove he can return to his best.

 

The former Borussia Dortmund star has only started seven of United's 27 Premier League games this term, and has yet to score a goal.

 

"Of course it is important for a player to continue getting games, but there is not much I can do about my situation," Kagawa told the Japan Times.

 

"It is something that I won't be able to gain unless I am delivering results.

 

"I can't change the situation I'm in, so to I want to turn it into something positive and do well (on Wednesday)."

 

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Moyes increasingly worried about Van Persie's form and body language, as he ponders long-term future of Dutch striker

 

Van Persie has been in and out of the United team because of injuries and is thought by some of his team-mates to be unhappy at Old Trafford.

 

Moyes has persistently defended the 30-year-old in public and denied suggestions of problems between the two.

However, Sportsmail understands the United manager has recently expressed private frustrations about Van Persie and is beginning to wonder if last season’s top scorer can be relied upon in the long term.

 

Van Persie’s goal record this season is good but his partnership with Wayne Rooney reached a new low when the duo hardly passed to each other in the Champions League defeat at Olympiacos.

 

Moyes was not bothered about Van Persie’s remarks concerning team shape in the wake of last week’s loss in Greece but is concerned about his form and body language on the pitch.

It is understood Moyes was beginning to wonder about Van Persie even before that game and it remains to be seen if the former Arsenal player manages to raise his levels between now and the end of the season.

 

United sources underlined just last week that Van Persie would not be sold this summer, even if he asked to leave.

 

However it will be up to Moyes to decide whether he remains the type of player to build a team around.

Van Persie is not the only player giving Moyes concern. He has privately bemoaned the fact that the core of the United squad is just not as good as he thought it was when he arrived from Everton to replace Sir Alex Ferguson.

 

There is, for example, no chance that Rio Ferdinand will receive an invitation to extend his contract this summer while other players who have been the bedrock of the United squad in recent years will be shipped out if at all possible during the off-season.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2573329/Moyes-increasingly-worried-Van-Persies-form-body-language-ponders-long-term-future-Dutch-striker.html

[JOHN DOE]

It's daily mail so it could be rubbish but if it is true can u blame rvp from wanting to jump ship

he probably joined man utd under the guise of playing for fergie and now he is being managed by moyes and coached by phil neville.

not to mention he is now going to be playing second fiddle to moyes golden boy Rooney who is also going to be captain next season

What did the board think was gonna happen if you employ a man who has won nothing to come in and dictate to players who have medals that he can only dream of

[Guest freestacks]

Tbh he was a mercenary when we bought him so i  expect this .  Dont blame him though . I blame rooney,saf,and moyes 

[Guest freestacks]

Vidic is more or less gone  . Apparently its a 3 year deal thought to be worth 20 mill 

[Heero Yuy]

Inter have confirmed Vidic

[Anderson]

Petition to prevent clevs going world cup

Lolsmh. About right for england fans.

[Mame Biram Diouf]

He told LFCTV GO: "I've been satisfied in terms of the progress we have made but there is still a long way to go in terms of where I want to go with the whole project.

 

"Hopefully it continues to grow. We have gone from a team who was looking to put a style of football in place - high energy, high tempo - to one who wants to have success running alongside that, and success is getting into the Champions League.

 

"This first 18 months has been (about) implementing and introducing a lot of ideas which are hopefully bearing fruit and the next 18 months is about developing and enhancing that.

 

"Over the next 18 months we want to eventually be really challenging on a trophy front."

 

Rodgers added on the need to keep working on all areas of the football club, in particular the youth team set-up: "There's no point in having a youth system and an academy system if you're not going to look from within. For me and how I work, it's part of my definition of success.

 

"When I eventually retire from football I want to be able to look back and see that not only have I won trophies but I've developed a football club that has brought through their own players and individuals and made them better.

 

"Other managers may be different and might just be about purely winning trophies, but for me success isn't picking up the trophy at the end of the season.

 

"It's also about the football club, giving the value to young players and seeing them develop."

 

 

Pains me to see a Liverpool manager talk like this

 

Especially about having faith in young players

 

Its only going to get worse, once they get into the top 4, sign better players, gain more confidence, who are we replacing in the top 4 with moyes in charge and the football we play?

[Thizz]

RVP on his way out??