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Kompressor you write too much unnecessarily . The guy is out of his depth thats all.

He should do an ian holloway asap and keep it moving

Deliver us klopp

 

Nah he just likes to put things into context and he's alluding to something which a lot of people calling for Moyes to be sacked aren't thinking about which is are the people behind the scenes capable of getting it right if they have to appoint someone again given how spectacularly they fucked up this time.

 

At the same time I fully agree that the most important factor is that Moyes is out of his depth, he is just the wrong man.

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Get carried away, especially on the topic being discussed and 1 comment can quickly become 4 & 5.

I could write 6000 word dissertations on each of the ownership, Moyes' appointment and the form this season and still not mention everything.

I think generally people are looking all too simply,

Klopp would be excellent however he isn't steady Eddie. Will speak out of turn and could cause an issue in board meetings. However he's proven at the highest level & he's had to deal with budgets restraints and done so well.

Makes you wonder again, why was Moyes the one who was picked and what process was undertaken. The blasé attitude that Fergie's replacement seems to have been chosen is more worrying to me than Moyes being out if his depth and being tactically inept.

It's like the other thread about the Euro 2008 prediction. It's easy and short sighted to highlight what went wrong and laugh or moan at it.

The reasons why go deeper and that will offer a solution.

Moyes gets sacked in the morning, then what? Will the new manager get the financial backing the squad needs?

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It seems to me that the club basically thought

 

'We need a new manager, who should we get?.....Let's just ask Alex to pick the next manager? Agreed. Great stuff, meeting adjourned.'

 

What would be interesting is if Moyes does leave is if Ferguson will be involved in the process of choosing the next manager.

 

I don't see Klopp happening any time soon, he doesn't strike me as the type to leave having just signed a contract especially considering the difficulties Dortmund are having and like you say he's a certified mad man.

 

Aside from how he'd work with the club I can imagine his relationship with the English press being either really good or spectacularly bad dependant on how the results were going, if they were bad they'd Graham Taylor him in an instant.

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TBH it's refreshing.

No you've got the wrong idea we're all meant to talk in sound bites I.E "Moyes out Klopp in!!" Etc

Shortsightedness>>>

To hell with discussing the fact that we've been papering over cracks since 2008.

To hell with looking at the 600 million pounds

To hell with wondering where this Ronaldo money is and why he was replaced by Obertan, Valencia and Owen.

To hell with questioning Alex Ferguson role in the stability of the boardroom since 2003 culminating in his masterstroke this season.

In some people's head David Moyes is the problem and if he left tomorrow we'd be right back on track.

A season like this has been coming, the amount of red flags has been amazing, imagine Fergie won the league last season whilst the two strongest teams in the league spent most of the season in turmoil, in the most unimaginative and non exhilarating way ever and some people were arguing it was his greatest ever achievement.

People wanna talk bout forum progress, everyone in here has an opinion but hardly anyone bothers to come forward with concrete arguments to back up these opinions.

I refuse to come on here state an opinion without explaining why I think that way.

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It seems to me that the club basically thought

 

'We need a new manager, who should we get?.....Let's just ask Alex to pick the next manager? Agreed. Great stuff, meeting adjourned.'

 

What would be interesting is if Moyes does leave is if Ferguson will be involved in the process of choosing the next manager.

 

I don't see Klopp happening any time soon, he doesn't strike me as the type to leave having just signed a contract especially considering the difficulties Dortmund are having and like you say he's a certified mad man.

 

Aside from how he'd work with the club I can imagine his relationship with the English press being either really good or spectacularly bad dependant on how the results were going, if they were bad they'd Graham Taylor him in an instant.

If the Fergie chose the new manager line is to be believed, it poses the question of whether the current people in charge have the knowledge to go out and set a strict and adequate criteria and then decide on the new manager.

In 2002 the board would not have chosen David Moyes and Alex Ferguson was only asked for an opinion which was then overruled.

A manager who's win nothing in the game being appointed Manchester United manager should have been a surprise and met with shock and concern widely, what happened was people thought it was the obvious choice.

United market themselves to partners and sponsors as the biggest clubs in the world it's a shame the people in suits didnt bare that in mind when appointing the small issue of a new manager.

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I don't doubt the influence of Ferguson on the appointment, I just don't see how it could have gone any other way.

 

Woodward:
 

On appointing David Moyes …

Nothing really happened before March and the first part of April. We had some meetings, myself Joel and Avi (Glazer), Alex and his son Jason. David Gill also gave input. Bobby (Charlton) too, but later on.

Alex gave his views and wrote down notes as to who should be on the list. David was always top of that list. There were conversations about other managers, largely to cross them off the list.

Without the recommendation of Alex there may have been a different process. We may have ended up with the same answer.

Alex called David Moyes. He sat him down in his boys’ room at home by the snooker table. He said ‘you’re our number one choice’. I met David the next day in the same place. Alex went downstairs and I spent a couple of hours with the manager.

To be honest it was done when Alex said. But it was good for me to meet him and hear his ideas and plans.

 

 

I'd be interested to know who the other managers they put on the list to cross off were to determine what the criteria were because against the obvious candidates like Klopp and Mourinho, Moyes doesn't win in many respects which leads me to believe that Ferguson's opinion was the most important.

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Interestingly the same debate is being had on Redcafe.

Someone's posted this

Hectic said: ↑

We were discussing this in the mod forum. I've really come round to this now although on the face of it, it sounds ridiculous.

It's pretty blatant to be fair, Fergie hasn't tried to hide it. Usually people would be embarrassed about that kind of nonsense and try to hide their bias, but Fergie seems to embrace it (probably because he's old and sentimental). From his book:

"...They wanted a new man in place within days.

A lot of Scots have a dourness about them: a strong will. When they leave Scotland it tends to be for one reason only. To be successful. Scots don’t leave to escape the past. They move away to better themselves. You see it all over the world, in America and Canada especially. Leaving the homeland creates a certain resolution. It’s not a mask; it’s a determination to get things done. The Scottish dourness others talk about sometimes applied to me as well.

The Scotsman abroad doesn’t lack humour. David Moyes is not short of wit. In their jobs, though, the Scots are serious about their labours, an invaluable quality. People often said to me, ‘I never see you smile during a game.’ I would reply, ‘I’m not there to smile, I’m there to win the match.’

David had some of these traits. I knew his family background. His father was a coach at Drumchapel, where I played as a lad. David Moyes senior. They have a good family feel about them. I’m not saying that’s a reason to hire someone but you like to see good foundations in someone appointed to such high office. I left Drumchapel in 1957 when David senior would have been a young boy, so there was no direct crossover, but I knew their story."

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As I said many times before moyes was a bring in from fergie as they are good mates and fergie probably did rate him highly with blind bias...

I reckon he is shocked at the start and thought moyes would finish in the top 4 comfy whilst maybe picking up a trophy or 2 while he settles in for the first few years.

The shortlist also imo only had british managers.

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I don't think it only had British managers, there is no reason to think that.

Table of the spending last summer.

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2013/09/09/number-crunched-premier-league-summer-transfers-by-club-country-age-and-position-090901/

Was interresting to see that since the start of the premier league United are only 4th in terms of spending.

Leaving consideration for the cash if City and Chelsea in recent years, can someone explain to me how and why Liverpool have gone clear into 3rd place in the last few years?

Heard another idiot on talksport last night talking about how United under Fergie never really spent big. He must've forgotten the numerous times the British transfer record was broken. And the 2 year period where RVN, Rio and Veron arrived.

This is why I say £27m is nothing in 2014. When Cardiff and Southampton are looking over and seeing they've meant more than the biggest club in the world..... I didn't even consider Liverpools decent business. Then you have Arsenal who never spend any money"

Then you wonder where all this new TV money has gone.

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United's net spend since 2005 is 14million a season.

So another question is what does full financial backing mean and amount to.

I refuse to believe David Moyes is happy with the squad he has.

Also has the club ever said anything different? Big clubs don't have to say they're giving full financial backing, you see it when a quality player is unveiled.

On the other hand Moyes could be holding his cards close to his chest....

When they took over they said they'd be budgeting 25 million per season on transfers each season, that was worrying in 2005 in 2013 it's complete madness.

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United's net spend since 2005 is 14million a season.

So another question is what does full financial backing mean and amount to.

I refuse to believe David Moyes is happy with the squad he has.

Also has the club ever said anything different? Big clubs don't have to say they're giving full financial backing, you see it when a quality player is unveiled.

On the other hand Moyes could be holding his cards close to his chest....

When they took over they said they'd be budgeting 25 million per season on transfers each season, that was worrying in 2005 in 2013 it's complete madness.

 

Hasn't Moyes already come out and said he's not happy with the squad? Writing unecessarilly again….

 

You keep contradicting yourself. One minute Moyes wasn't given money to spend, the next say the lack of transfers was because Woodward was in charge of dealings

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I don't doubt the influence of Ferguson on the appointment, I just don't see how it could have gone any other way.

 

Woodward:

 

On appointing David Moyes …

Nothing really happened before March and the first part of April. We had some meetings, myself Joel and Avi (Glazer), Alex and his son Jason. David Gill also gave input. Bobby (Charlton) too, but later on.

Alex gave his views and wrote down notes as to who should be on the list. David was always top of that list. There were conversations about other managers, largely to cross them off the list.

Without the recommendation of Alex there may have been a different process. We may have ended up with the same answer.

Alex called David Moyes. He sat him down in his boys’ room at home by the snooker table. He said ‘you’re our number one choice’. I met David the next day in the same place. Alex went downstairs and I spent a couple of hours with the manager.

To be honest it was done when Alex said. But it was good for me to meet him and hear his ideas and plans.

 

I'd be interested to know who the other managers they put on the list to cross off were to determine what the criteria were because against the obvious candidates like Klopp and Mourinho, Moyes doesn't win in many respects which leads me to believe that Ferguson's opinion was the most important.

I just remembered something. Woodward says there nothing happened before March but in February...

The former Manchester United boss said, 'He (Moyes) phoned me around February for some advice about his contract, they were pushing him to sign a new contract.

'I knew in myself I was going to retire, so I’m thinking If he signed a contract it would be more difficult for us.

'I said to him you’ve had ten years there that’s long enough, you’ll get a bigger club.

'I kept phoning him to make sure he wasn’t going to sign a new contract.

'We had to wait till the league was decided, once the league was decided I got David over to the house and I think he thought we were going to talk about his contract again, but I said look I want you to take over.'

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Manchester United had €25 million bid for Borussia Dortmund’s Robert Lewandowski rejected

Bayern Munich have confirmed that Robert Lewandowski will join them in the summer to end a long saga as to where the Polish striker would move to from Borussia Dortmund.

The 25-year-old was strongly linked with a move to Manchester United but nothing materialised past Sir Alex Ferguson admitting he admired him as a player.

However, according to Raphael Honigstein, United actually submitted a double bid for Kagawa and Lewandowski back in 2012 with an individual fee of €25 million for the Polish striker.

He said: ”The Polish striker and his advisors thought that they had a verbal agreement with Dortmund that the player would be allowed to leave in the summer of 2013 if an offer of more than 25 million euros was lodged.

“That, incidentally, was the figure Alex Ferguson had bid for the forward after watching him and Shinji Kagawa destroy Bayern 5-2 in the 2012 German Cup final.

“Dortmund sold the midfielder but much to Sir Alex’s surprise, they turned down the offer for Lewandowski, having rebuffed a similar advance from Bayern before.

“Dortmund’s categorical “Nein” was mistaken as posturing by many that summer, including Frantisek Smuda. The Polish national manager confidently declared that Lewandowski was off to Old Trafford after Euro 2012.

“Dortmund, however, stood firm.”

One thing that Lewandowski’s arrival would have done was probably bring the best out of Kagawa given that they played the same style of football but it wasn’t to be.

So if Ferguson had his way, both Lewandowski and Kagawa would have moved to Old Trafford back in 2012 which would have been fantastic but in reality, Dortmund’s refusal of the offer wasn’t too bad after all. Instead of Lewandowski, Ferguson signed Robin van Persie and that worked out quite nicely.

Who said the grass isn’t greener on the other side?

http://thepeoplesperson.com/manchester-united-had-25-million-bid-for-borussia-dortmunds-robert-lewandowski-rejected/

People thought Fergie signed Kagawa to play with Rooney but it looks like he wanted to bring the Lewandowski/Kagawa partnership to the prem.
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United's net spend since 2005 is 14million a season.

So another question is what does full financial backing mean and amount to.

I refuse to believe David Moyes is happy with the squad he has.

Also has the club ever said anything different? Big clubs don't have to say they're giving full financial backing, you see it when a quality player is unveiled.

On the other hand Moyes could be holding his cards close to his chest....

When they took over they said they'd be budgeting 25 million per season on transfers each season, that was worrying in 2005 in 2013 it's complete madness.

 

Hasn't Moyes already come out and said he's not happy with the squad? Writing unecessarilly again….

 

You keep contradicting yourself. One minute Moyes wasn't given money to spend, the next say the lack of transfers was because Woodward was in charge of dealings

Not really a contradiction, the two go hand in hand. Moyes was given funds, just nowhere near what he shoukdve been guven and what this club should be spending,

with the "relative" lack of spending you need somebody who is a Don when it comes to negotiating deals. Woodward is not that guy right now as prior to the fellani deal he had no experience of doing so.

conclusion. lack of financial backing and the man un the hotseat not being able to execute within the parameters made available

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On PAPER where would you expect our squad to finish in the league?

Would say anywhere from 2-4

City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal making that top 4 in some sort of order.

Saying that, don't know if Any of those other teams or Liverpool or Spurs would swap their squads with us so you could argue 2-6

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David Walsh

Last updated January 12 2014 12:01AM

Rooney has been United‘s best player, many teammates have not performed (PHIL NOBLE)

The summer transfer shambles shows the board are equally culpable for troubles at Old Trafford, not just the manager

The difficulty is not finding an example of how it has gone wrong at Manchester United but choosing one that shows the degree to which things have deteriorated. With 23 minutes remaining in the New Year’s Day game against Tottenham at Old Trafford, Danny Welbeck scored to leave his team trailing 2-1. That should have been the trigger for all-out attack, waves of red crashing towards the Spurs goal just as they always had in the old days. But it didn’t pan out like that.

Instead of the irresistible desire of Manchester United chasing salvation on their own patch, there was Wayne Rooney continually striking 30-yard cross-field passes to Adnan Januzaj on the right wing. Rooney has been United’s best player this season and the teenager has perhaps been next best. In spraying one pass after another to Januzaj, to the exclusion of every other United player, Rooney was merely trying to take the most likely route to an equaliser. But it also said much about what Rooney thought of those around him: a lot of Januzaj, not much of the others. Welbeck, Javier Hernandez and, late in the game, Ashley Young were among the bypassed.

You could not have argued against Rooney’s reading of what was best but how could a team who won last season’s title by 11 points have come to this? Physically, Januzaj is more 16 than 18 and this was to have been the season he dipped his toe in the water, not skippered the lifeboat.

Of course the explanation for the troubles of the team lies in the difficulty of making the transition from Sir Alex Ferguson to David Moyes. Poor performances and bad results lead to criticism and Moyes has been the target. He has made mistakes but they have been nothing compared with the club’s utter incompetence in the handling of the handover. An iconic football club with a huge global appeal have managed this transition in the manner of a medium-sized provincial club supporting a new manager. There’s your office, training starts at 10.

Ferguson himself cannot have contributed to the mess. His priority in his final season was to ensure no one, most of all his players, knew of his intention to retire at the end of the campaign. Previous experience showed him that when a manager announces in advance his decision to retire, players can lose a little of their desire to please.

So secrecy was the imperative and Ferguson pulled off the final championship campaign that his career deserved, but it came at a price. Moyes was offered the job in May, giving him little time to make key decisions about his own staff and no time to research seriously which new players United needed and how he might go about signing them.

It was baffling that United’s new chief executive, Ed Woodward, failed to see the obvious need for the club to make the marquee signing that would have told the world that, under Moyes, United would remain as ambitious as ever. Woodward and the board will say they tried: Gareth Bale, Cesc Fabregas, Thiago Alcantara, Ander Herrera, but in the transfer game you get no marks for effort.

United were looking in the wrong places because this game is new to Woodward and with so much else on his plate, Moyes didn’t have the time. The new manager has revealed that he wanted Rene Meulensteen to stay but the Dutch coach felt he wouldn’t have the kind of input on the training as he had under Ferguson. He chose to move on.

But by the time Moyes knew that, weeks had passed and he went to those he had worked with at Everton: Steve Round, Phil Neville, Jimmy Lumsden and Chris Woods. With more time to consider coaches with higher profiles and experience at the highest level of club football, he surely would have chosen differently.

Footballers at the top level of the game like designer brands, in goods and in coaches. The guy who has worked at Barcelona or Bayern Munich has credibility but not necessarily the fellow from the smaller club down the M62. It is not purely vanity that makes Jose Mourinho decorate the walls of his office at Chelsea’s training ground with photographs of himself celebrating great victories with some of the game’s best-known players. Even The Special One is a brand.

United left Moyes up the creek without one decent acquisition and, in a little desperation, he again went back to one he knew, Marouane Fellaini. So far the Belgian seems a mistake, another in the long catalogue. But the new manager had little time to help Fellaini settle in because Rooney was so desperate to leave, he told Moyes it was his job to help him get away from the club.

Moyes has handled Rooney cleverly and helped him to produce a string of excellent performances. But like holes in a dyke, other problems manifested themselves. For different reasons senior players such as Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic, Patrice Evra, Ryan Giggs and Robin van Persie have not been the stalwarts that Moyes might have imagined they would be.

Ferdinand’s decline has accelerated and the remarkable Giggs finally begins to feel the years. Vidic and Evra are in the final seasons of their contracts and are expected to leave at the end of the season. Their enthusiasm for the new regime was never going to be what it would have been in other circumstances. And Van Persie has again become the injury-prone player he was for so many seasons at Arsenal.

It must also be said that Moyes, like every other manager on the planet, is no Ferguson. The former manager had the charisma, the passion and the motivational powers to convince players they were better than they were and to consistently coax from them performances at the outer limits of their potential.

When he spoke of Hernandez Ferguson made you believe that Mexico’s Gerd Müller would score 25-30 goals every season in England. Ferguson also convinced Hernandez himself, so when he played he tended to score. But when Moyes looks at the Mexican he sees what he has not got, which is more obvious than what he has.

Honesty is one of Moyes’ defining traits but that isn’t necessarily helping him right now. For weeks his body language has suggested he does not believe the current squad are anywhere close to where they should be if United are to be one of the top clubs in European football. He publicly expressed that view on Friday when asking: “What if this is as good as we are?” He answered his own question, saying he would deal with it.

Because they mismanaged the transition, the United board will at least give Moyes the chance to do what he says he will do. He will be given the backing and the time to show whether Ferguson’s last big call was the right one.

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