The Official Manchester United Thread

[HangTheDJ]

 

What did you use to buy Fellani? I assumed it was money

 

I went to a live recording of The Game podcast last night. Tony Evans (staunch Scouser tbf) claimed the Glazier's have taken £580m out of the club since they took over.

[Mame Biram Diouf]

we knew bale would choose real

 

knew hazard would choose chelsea

 

knew we wasnt going to match herrera clause

 

knew fab would want to stay at barce

[Zizouz]

I think the team needs an overhaul but I don't think the lack of quality is purely down to funds

 

You paid 15 million for a teenager who's only proved himself in the Championship

 

You bid 30 odd million for Hazard, Herrera and Fabregas in recent times only to be rejected

 

If rumours are to be believed you matched Real's fee for Bale too

 

Money is there

 

do United have it in them to pay the extra 5m and going wage everyone else does?

 

you think United were willing to offer the 200k or whatever it is Hazard is on, as well as pay agent fees and whatever else it took for Chelsea to get the deal done?

 

all them bids served to do was placate fans who'd take it as a statement of intent

[stacksbranning]

we knew bale would choose real

 

knew hazard would choose chelsea

 

knew we wasnt going to match herrera clause

 

knew fab would want to stay at barce

 

Pretty much this. The only one which seemed certain was alcantara . the c*nt

[JOHN DOE]

 

Where has it gone wrong for Manchester United and David Moyes?

After just 11 games there is a growing unease about the direction a team of serial champions is taking under the man hired to fill Sir Alex Ferguson's shoes

Manchester United under David Moyes is a team playing without freedom or pleasure.

To be evaluating the performance of David Moyes just 11 games into the season is almost absurd; it certainly ought to be, and were he to be sacked tomorrow, no one would have the remotest inkling of his ability to manage Manchester United. And yet the start he has made bears discussion, not simply because it has been awful, though awful it has been, but also because it has been so in all the ways that might have been predicted.

In the first instance, Moyes's appointment reflected a dearth of candidates. Besides José Mourinho, too expensive and too much trouble, there were few available whose record demanded consideration; the Stretford End banner, "The Chosen One", might just as well read "Not The Special One". Where Sir Alex Ferguson had to devastate the Old Firm and win a European trophy to prove himself, even though United were struggling, Moyes learned of his accession after doing a largely decent but entirely believable job at Everton, where many supporters had become weary of his conservative tendencies. Of course, he can still thrive at Old Trafford, but did not earn the opportunity to try.

But he was no sooner arrived than ensconced, bringing in his Goodison deputies to replace those already in situ – as regards Jimmy Lumsden and Steve Round, his patronage the only evidence of their suitability. Nonetheless, in regular circumstances, regulation practice; but these were not those.

Though it is impossible for outsiders to rhapsodise the merits of the men who left, René Meulensteen is, by all accounts, a talented coach, and was popular with the players. Similarly, Eric Steele scouted David De Gea, learnt Spanish so that the goalkeeper might feel less homesick, and then presided over a staggering improvement in performance, physique and mentality.

Which is to say that both were integral to the delivery of consistent success, an expertise suddenly deemed dispensable. Rather, Moyes adjudged that of all the coaches in the world, those most likely to take his new club forward were already working for him – quite some coincidence, all the more so when he confirmed Leighton Baines and Marouane Fellaini as principal transfer targets.

Then, during pre-season, Moyes talked of how he had "overtrained" Robin van Persie, on the face of it, an innocuous, if injudicious turn of phrase – unless it was actually the case. Even so, ordinarily, it would be tricky to sympathise with the player, but after losing chunks of his career to injury and rehabilitation, Van Persie has stayed fit for two full seasons, and, it is fair to assume, knows his own body.

Again, this unusual power dynamic is due to unusual conditions: Moyes is a non-champion managing a squad of serial champions, replacing a much-loved predecessor. Therefore, it is he who must prove himself to the players, rather than the other way around – a mission made trickier following a d*cky start that they could easily associate with his presence.

Nor is Van Persie the only one unhappy; Shinji Kagawa has reportedly expressed discontent, and the team as a whole is playing without freedom or pleasure. Footballers are often thought mandated to tolerate hardship for the privilege of their profession, but most humans perform at optimal level when comfortable, and clearly, there has been a disruption to the equilibrium of a previously happy squad.

This summer's transfer activities also reflect badly on Moyes. Though the extent of the budgeting strictures are unknown, and though it is not solely his department, the conspiratorial manner in which he addressed the press on the subject accorded him greater ownership than might otherwise have been the case. And it was certainly he who was unwilling to gamble on Ander Herrera, saw no use for the proven brilliance of Mesut Özil, and failed to advise Ed Woodward that Cesc Fábregas would not be extracted from Barcelona on the cheap. Instead, Fellaini arrived, who, though better than he has shown so far, does not flatter his manager's judgment. Bought only once the squad had been assessed, his lack of pace, drive and anticipation was overlooked, and as such, he looks incapable of strengthening a midfield desperate for almost anyone.

But the club considered its principal summer coup to be keeping Wayne Rooney, in one sense legitimately so – unarguably, he guarantees goals and assists – but in another, the intransigence hinted at expedience. Had Rooney left for Chelsea and helped them to the title, the narrative of culpability would be linear and clear. Now, should United fail in their defence, there exist numerous fudges to achieve its dispersal.

Yet the fact remains that Rooney is 28 this week and stagnant at best, the notion that money earned and saved via his sale could not be used to buy a superior, younger player, less likely with every passing injury, tantrum, nightmare and year. In the meantime, after testing team-mates with his attitude, he now captains them in the absence of Patrice Evra and Nemanja Vidic.

The principal victim of all this has been Kagawa, seemingly earmarked to take his place at the creative hub of a reshaped side. And though his celebration does not reflect his contribution, let alone relatively, nor did that of Louis Saha, who nevertheless usurped the consistently productive but increasingly joyless Ruud van Nistelrooy, to devastating effect.

"They keep telling me how good he is," said Moyes of Kagawa before United played Liverpool in the League Cup, with revealing pronoun. Then, just as in every game he has started this season, he was first fielded out of position before being substituted, his involvement intermittent, but also including sharp, incisive and perceptive passes – precisely the quality absent most of the rest of the time.

There remains a view that Kagawa's attributes of subtlety and improvisation are not those frequently found in Moyes's players, likewise those of Wilfried Zaha, another step-quickener in a squad hardly suffering a surfeit. But Zaha has yet to be considered worthy of a single second on the pitch, not even against Crystal Palace, the team he inspired to promotion last season.

In his early weeks, Moyes preferred Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia, their abilities more akin to those favoured in his Everton sides. Accordingly, it was not altogether surprising when United failed to create a single decent chance against Chelsea and required a soft penalty and late free-kick to beat Palace's 10 men, before dominating possession at Anfield as Liverpool retreated, yet threatening a goal only once.

Assessed in isolation, none of these events were especially significant, but consecutively, hinted at a more tangible malaise, subsequently manifested in the Manchester derby. The first half in particular was as severe and complete a hiding as United have received domestically in almost a decade, table footballers taking on a Subbuteo team. And yet, at its end, Moyes chose to do nothing, instead watching his team concede twice more within minutes. By way of contrast, at the same stage the previous afternoon, Everton were a goal down to West Ham, so Roberto Martínez made two alterations, spurring his team to victory.

Since then, Moyes has moved closer to finding his best eleven but without much improvement in performance, opposition defences easily repelling the constant crosses that appear too often to be coincidence. Of course, the players still produce occasional excerpts of instinctive brilliance, but given their ability, this is almost unavoidable. More instructive is that only twice this season might it be posited that United played well: against Swansea, in the opening game – even that punctuated by moments rather than replete with cohesion – and against a Bayer Leverkusen team that barely competed, yet, with merely competent goalkeeping, might have sneaked a draw.

As he is determined no one forget, Moyes was dealt a difficult start, an excuse divested of currency following the games against West Brom and Southampton. But his repeated inference that darker forces were afoot affronted players accustomed to coping with plenty more. And though they are absolutely letting him down, publicly, at least, he has done little to rouse them, the given impression one of Fergie without the charisma. Instead, he dismissed their chances in Europe, handily allowing him to dodge any blame for the same, lamented the lack of "world-class players" bestowed upon him, and implied that their most recent success merely reflected the poverty of opposition.

By no measure is the current United squad one of the club's finest, but the fact remains that it secured last season's title before the end of April and contains a goodly number of players still improving. Consequently, Moyes's lack of respect for its credentials served only to suggest his own shortcomings, because ultimately, there are only three differences between this season's United and last: a player signed by David Moyes, men employed by David Moyes and David Moyes.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/oct/23/david-moyes-manchester-united-bad-start

 

 

/

 

surely we need a man u room?

[Young £]

for what, this thread is fine.

[i5_PRODUCER]

Every time i come in here its pure depressing.

[Agony]

The Guardian article was already posted in this thread 

[Kompressor]

What did you use to buy Fellani? I assumed it was money

I went to a live recording of The Game podcast last night. Tony Evans (staunch Scouser tbf) claimed the Glazier's have taken £580m out of the club since they took over.

See this is the bottom line.

It makes me sick when people say they've been good owners and point to the increased level of commercial whoring of the club. (All that money has gone to servicing Glazer debt)

Say that they have improved the training facilities. (They used Manchester United money to do that)

Or point to the record profits each year or the rate of success, like these things wernt a reality before the takeover.

They have brought one thing to the table, debt and lots of it. People say, Well they haven't interfered on the playing side of things, well that's because they know absolutely nothing about football, they wouldn't know where to start.

Fergie being the "multi faceted" individual he is (I'm being kind there) comes out and says something like "well we never really spent really big money on players anyway" and the blind section of the fanbase forget history. Talk about value in the market when he happily gave debt ridden amd desperate to sell Leeds United 30 million for Ferdinand. Veron, Ruud was supposedly a entrance to the big time. Remember in the space of 2 seasons. Ruud £19 million British transfer record, then The next summer, Veron £29 British transfer record, and Ferdinand British transfer record, then my guy want to come out now and talk bout how the spending is mad, when Chelsea and City upped the levels. Keep in mind when Barthez was signed that was the most money spent on a GK at the time.

Manchester United make enough money each year to at least put up a fight against the likes of City and Chelsea but due to the castration at board level can do fuck all.

One thing really sums it up for the casual observer of board room rape, the Centre of the midfield has been weak since Roy Keane was shown the door. Arguably before then, (who remembers Djemba Djemba, Liam Miller and Alan Smith) yet Fellani is the first player in that area if the field to be signed since Owen fucking Hargreaves.

People will point to the new Nike deal as signs of their good ownership, like its difficult to negotiate a multi million pound kit deal for Machester United.

They came into the club, raped and pillaged and when they pretty much sell up they'll leave with loads of money without having out a single penny in. Fucking genius. Any United fan who defends them knowing the facts is retarded.

Manchester United reportedly received around 80 Million from the new TV deal. Add this to the laughable £25 million pound a season budget the Glazer's openly put in place for transfers plus the money "available" to spend still left over from the Robaldo deal, this is comfortably over £100 million. Yet a team in need of boosting and a new manager in need of even symbolic backing was given £30 million. Which in comparison to City over the road and even Spurs was laughable.

On bidding for Bale, can't remember who it was on one of those weekly podcasts. But they made the analogy/joke that Cambridge Could bid £200 million for Messi, it'd look and sound good but it'd be an empty offer as its clear there no chance if it happening,

[Agony]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16dw4e_wigan-athletic-1-1-rubin-kazan-goal-nick-powell_sport

[darkman]

I think the team needs an overhaul but I don't think the lack of quality is purely down to funds

 

You paid 15 million for a teenager who's only proved himself in the Championship

 

You bid 30 odd million for Hazard, Herrera and Fabregas in recent times only to be rejected

 

If rumours are to be believed you matched Real's fee for Bale too

 

Money is there

 

do United have it in them to pay the extra 5m and going wage everyone else does?

 

you think United were willing to offer the 200k or whatever it is Hazard is on, as well as pay agent fees and whatever else it took for Chelsea to get the deal done?

 

all them bids served to do was placate fans who'd take it as a statement of intent

 

So if you're bids were accepted you would have backed out? Nonsense

[Zizouz]

 

I think the team needs an overhaul but I don't think the lack of quality is purely down to funds

 

You paid 15 million for a teenager who's only proved himself in the Championship

 

You bid 30 odd million for Hazard, Herrera and Fabregas in recent times only to be rejected

 

If rumours are to be believed you matched Real's fee for Bale too

 

Money is there

 

do United have it in them to pay the extra 5m and going wage everyone else does?

 

you think United were willing to offer the 200k or whatever it is Hazard is on, as well as pay agent fees and whatever else it took for Chelsea to get the deal done?

 

all them bids served to do was placate fans who'd take it as a statement of intent

 

So if you're bids were accepted you would have backed out? Nonsense

 

who said they'd back out, bid in the knowledge you'll be rejected and or don't have enough time to get the deal done

 

and in the case of Hazard, just offer below the market rate and get rejected nah?

[TF S4DK]

I think the whole fake bids talk is not serious.

 

I just think sometimes clubs don't realise how many mountains they gonna have to move to get everyone to agree. Call it poor due diligence if anything.

 

You ended up signing van Persie, but imagine Wenger actually refused and you never got him, would you be saying it was a fake bid/statement of intent?

[Zizouz]

not a United fan btw 

 

but I find it harder to believe guys spending upwards of 30 mil are failing to do their due diligence on the way to do business with say Bilbao 

[darkman]

Kompressor, in regards to Ruud and Rio I don't think you could have picked 2 worse players to back up your argument

 

As for Veron, you're forgetting how highly this guy was rated

[TF S4DK]

not a United fan btw 

 

but I find it harder to believe guys spending upwards of 30 mil are failing to do their due diligence on the way to do business with say Bilbao 

 

Ever thought... They missed out on who they truly wanted, felt under pressure to sign someone, asked the scouts who, Herrera came back.

 

They went for it, thought we are Man Utd who the fuck are Bilbao... Then realised no chance they could spend that money on a whim, so reverted back to what the manager knew - Felliani.

[Kompressor]

Kompressor, in regards to Ruud and Rio I don't think you could have picked 2 worse players to back up your argument As for Veron, you're forgetting how highly this guy was rated

I don't think you understood the Arguement.

The point I'm making is that Alex Ferguson was never reticent to spend big money, but once the Glazer regime took full flight his favourite phrase was value in the market and he tried to tell people that he never really spent big money and always preferred to develop from within whilst spending bits here and there to supplement the squad. History tells us he is a liar or just very forgetful.

[darkman]

Remind me how much you paid for paid for Berbatov? If I'm not mistaken the Glazers were owners then

[darkman]

Not to mention the huge figure for the Nani and Anderson signings

[Benicio del Toney]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16dw4e_wigan-athletic-1-1-rubin-kazan-goal-nick-powell_sport

 

He's doing very well there, let's hope he comes back and gets a chance, he's got the talent for sure.

[Kompressor]

Big transfers yes, in relative terms to our competitors and considering the amount of money the club brings in each season.....

Even so Mr Glazer and son's didn't finance any of that. The self sufficient behemoth called Manchester United did. The point is Manchester United celebrate how much money is made every season and new commercial and sponsorship deals are signed on an almost weekly basis, yet the tangible investment is sparse.

[darkman]

They didn't finance it lol? Weren't they the owners

[Zizouz]

not a United fan btw 

 

but I find it harder to believe guys spending upwards of 30 mil are failing to do their due diligence on the way to do business with say Bilbao 

 

Ever thought... They missed out on who they truly wanted, felt under pressure to sign someone, asked the scouts who, Herrera came back.

 

They went for it, thought we are Man Utd who the f*ck are Bilbao... Then realised no chance they could spend that money on a whim, so reverted back to what the manager knew - Felliani.

 

fair enough, I'll concede on that part, clubs do miss out and attempt to panic buy from time to time

[Kompressor]

Financing is what The owners at Chelsea and City do. The Glazer's merely allow Manchester United to spend some of the money Manchester United make whilst the rest goes on their debt and god knows what else. I have put more money into Manchester United than the Glazer family have since the takeover.

If you want to prove a point/points educate me on how they have been beneficial to the cause as its obviously beyond me, feel free to do this in essay or bullet point form.

Otherwise just allow it, it's Friday night all I wanna do is eat my dinner and have a couple beers.

[darkman]

Financing is what The owners at Chelsea and City do. The Glazer's merely allow Manchester United to spend the money Manchester United make. I have put more money into Manchester United than the Glazer family have since the takeover.

If you want to prove a point/points educate me on how they have been beneficial to the cause as its obviously beyond me, feel free to do this in essay or bullet point form.

Otherwise just allow it, it's Friday night all I wanna do is eat my dinner and have a couple beers.

 

They are the owners. If they are only there to service their own debt they could easily stop you making making huge transfers

 

Manchester United make enough money each year to at least put up a fight against the likes of City and Chelsea but due to the castration at board level can do f*ck all.

 

What a load of bollocks this is. You make a lot of money each year but enough to compete against the Abu Dhabi Group and Abramovich? Hell no. No club in the world can compete against these 2 yet you're in the same league as both

 

You can blame the Glazers as much as you want but the facts speak themseleves. Players don't want to play for you