The Official Manchester United Thread

[Adotbiz]

As much as giggs has been good at united, but he should never be touching first team specially in the 60th ish min...

[Young £]

fellaini and carrick cant play together ukna lol, and its not cause of 'immobility'

 

rage

[Horatio Caine]

fack me....amma drown mi sorrows

[Michel Kane]

fellaini and carrick cant play together ukna lol, and its not cause of 'immobility'

 

rage

What do you think the problem is?

From what I've seen so far, he's playing to conservatively & not driving at the opposition enough & being dominant. I don't understand how you can play against Yaya who basically gave you the blueprint on how to do so in the derby & be so timid.

[Horatio Caine]

i dont think he has it in his locker,

 

ders no urgency in his play, he cant run with the ball, he cant cut a team open with a pass

 

he, jus like cleverley are "safe" passers of the ball

 

//

 

and if moyes decides to play him further up, u bes believe kag will then kick up a fuss, n rightly so

[Michel Kane]

I've seen Feillani play in the manner which is needed for Everton.

He definitely has it in his locker.

[darkman]

fellaini and carrick cant play together ukna lol, and its not cause of 'immobility'

 

rage

What do you think the problem is?

From what I've seen so far, he's playing to conservatively & not driving at the opposition enough & being dominant. I don't understand how you can play against Yaya who basically gave you the blueprint on how to do so in the derby & be so timid.

 

 

He can only be dominant in the air. He's at a proper club now, the long ball shit don't run

 

The problem is Rooney

The problem is then deep defensive line

The problem is shackles on fellaini with a lack of confidence instilled by the manager

I can name 100 managers better then Moyes

He's a small club manager with no winning mentatiltiy

The squad is good enough

He has no excuse

 

lol you still don't get it. The squad is poor, you only got away with it because of Fergie

 

Whoever took over the squad would have tried to stregthen

[darkman]

i dont think he has it in his locker,

 

ders no urgency in his play, he cant run with the ball, he cant cut a team open with a pass

 

he, jus like cleverley are "safe" passers of the ball

 

//

 

and if moyes decides to play him further up, u bes believe kag will then kick up a fuss, n rightly so

 

Fellani:

 

- Can't run

 

- Can't pass

 

- Can't shoot

 

So what exactly is he going to bring to the team? He is not a Man U player. He was a panic buy

[Horatio Caine]

hes an average passer of the ball

 

he cant drive at the opp like anderson/yaya (yes i knw its anderson but still)does....

 

he shouldnt be our CM, even his tackling is a lil off key, fouls like a muvafucka

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Moyes needs to come down with ''Depression''

 

Take time out from the game to spend time with his wife and children and put his health first

 

Say the pressure is having an effect on his personal life and relationship with his loved ones

 

Family first

 

Take his cheque and fuck off, take over Newcastle or Fulham in a couple years and push them top 8 again grinding out results against expectations and we can all move on

 

Its like we go into a game thinking we have better players on paper so we should win

 

Looks like there is not training on indiv threats and tactically threats of opp players

 

Llallana must have thought he was playing Ultimate Team today

 

Tired of talking about Giggs and Kagawa and Rooney tbh

 

But Free Shinji, Free RVP, Free Rene, Free Zaha

[TF S4DK]

Rene is free like a bird, my nigga.

[Thizz]

He's at it again lol

"For people who understand football, United’s tactical problem is clear in comparison with Spurs (Eriksen), Arsenal (Ozil) & Chelsea (Mata).

If one plays 4-4-2 instead of 4-2-3-1 the typical number 10 playmaker is missing to distribute the ball to players in goal scoring position.

To solve this problem in 4-4-2 one of 2 strikers often drops to the midfield. Defensively to create 3v3 & offensively to distribute the ball

The key factor within this 4-4-2 strategy is the discipline of the 2nd striker. Is he willing to constantly drop to midfield for 90 minutes?

Fergie also used this 4-4-2 strategy with Rooney dropping to midfield to create 3v3 in defence & distribute ball to RVP or wingers in attack

Because of Fergie’s authority Rooney often played very disciplined as the players had massive respect for the manager http://t.co/6KXFx78hmd

Last week, Rooney explained that this season he does no longer have to drop to the midfield like last season.

http://t.co/0kka7JhDSL

This means that it is a conscious choice by Moyes to play with a rigid 4-4-2 and not to occupy the big space between midfield & attack.

Consequently, rugby players like Carrick & Cleverley have to distribute the ball to RVP or wingers resulting in a total lack of creativity.

The signing of Fellaini has not solved United’s tactical problem as he is not the creative and skillful player to get the ball to RVP.

Defensively, Moyes’ rigid 4-4-2 strategy is also vulnerable as the wingers play much wider compared to Fergie’s tactics.

With Everton Moyes frequently played 4-2-3-1 with wide wingers who often got diagonal balls. The 3 midfielders did most of defensive work.

But playing with wider wingers in a 4-4-2 means only 2 central midfielders have to do all the work in transition from attack to defence.

In the big games vs Liverpool, Chelsea & Man City the United midfield was vulnerable & often overrun because of less support by wide wingers

In big games Fergie often used Park as a winger as ‘three lungs’ Park was able to quickly get narrow in transition to create 3v3 in midfield

But even Fergie’s regular tactical solution within 4-4-2 was exposed in the biggest games of all, the 2009 & 2011 CL finals vs Barca.

Because of Barca’s 4-1-4-1 formation United was 2v3 down in midfield & with Messi also dropping to midfield, it was even worse: 2v4.

To cut a long story short, in next transfer window United has to buy an Ozil or Mata so they can play 4-2-3-1 like Moyes did with Everton.

In the meantime, until the winter window, Moyes has to do some tactical fine-tuning to avoid further frustration for his (midfield) players.

Moyes should either play Rooney as a nr 10 like Fergie did or he should play for example Kagawa to get some creativity in the midfield.

The questions is does Moyes have the authority to play Rooney in this position or to choose between RVP or Rooney to create space for Kagawa"

@raymondverheije

[Mame Biram Diouf]

He obviously doesnt want to make space for Kagawa

 

Otherwise he would be starting him or at the very least fucking bringing him on instead of Ryan fucking Giggs

 

As of tired I retired from talking about Rooney anywhere else but vip

 

Cant asked for it man

 

''Your best player though''

 

'He carried England to the world cup''

 

''Whats Kagawa done since Dortmund''

 

I am depressed 

[Mame Biram Diouf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqmSt7VUiEM

 

No need to worry lads

 

Apparently we are going to TRY win the next game

[Gambino]

Didn't watch the match or MOTD. Can't be depressing myself right now lol.

 

Looking like we have signed that Brazilian Kid Bruno Gomes. Scored 122 goals in 3 seasons at his club, Madrid & Barce wanted him but he loves United.

[Mame Biram Diouf]

By Andy Mitten

 

Manchester United’s disabled supporters’ association were wrapping up their annual dinner. All the first team players turned up on time, except Shinji Kagawa. He was doing extra weights and seeing the club doctor after training. The remaining fans ready to leave when Shinji arrived, all apologies for being late. He then asked for a cup of English tea and sat down with the 12 remaining fans. He talked to them in better English than they expected.

 

“It would have been easier for him not to bother coming as he had a legitimate reason not to attend, but he made the effort to come and see us,” said the organizer.

 

“We were all very impressed by him. He was the last person to leave.”

 

Kagawa’s tea-drinking and his English is coming on. He’s popular in the dressing room and Rio Ferdinand reckons he’s the best footballer in training since Paul Scholes retired.

 

“I’m very excited to see how he does,” says Ferdinand. “Last season he was feeling his way in, he didn’t know much about the league. Then he got an injury at a critical time, just as he was starting to get a good bit of rhythm in his football. This season I think he could be a surprise package.”

 

Kagawa just needs to get it right where it matters most – on the pitch for the first team. A chance would be a fine thing.

United’s first ever Japanese signing at Old Trafford could have had a better first season. His arrival from Borussia Dortmund was greeted with huge optimism among Reds.

 

His signing was needed. Losing the league in the way United did – to City of all teams – hit the collective mood of fans hard, as did seeing Chelsea win the European Cup and then losing out to them for Eden Hazard.

 

Kagawa’s arrival lifted that gloom. This was a young player who has already been a star for the German champions, scoring 13-15 goals and assisting another 15 consistently in a top title winning team over two seasons. A versatile player who could play behind a striker or on either wing.

 

It all seemed too good to be true and one wonders why, at £12 million (with add-ons expected to make £17 million), he was so cheap. If he was 33 you could understand it, but 23? Were Dortmund wrong in not getting him tied down on a longer contract?

 

Kagawa’s Real Madrid bound team mate Nuri Sahin (the league’s player of the year who Dortmund let go for just €10 million) was purring that “the boy plays like an angel”. That’s after Kagawa been an immediate success and scored twice in the Ruhr derby win over Schalke 04.

 

When he signed, I spoke to Miyamoto, the recently retired Japan captain.

“Kagawa is very quick and strong especially in narrow areas,” he replied, in English. “He doesn’t have as powerful a shot as Rooney but is good at a controlled shot. I don’t know him personally, but I’ve heard he is an extrovert.”

 

I also consulted Jan Age Fjortoft, who you’ll know well in Scandinavia. He watches Bundesliga games every week for Norwegian television.

“He’s great value for money compared with Hazard,” said Fjortoft. “Kagawa is always running. Good timed runs. He’ll always be where things happen in the 18-yard-box. I guess he will have a free role behind the striker. Sir Alex Ferguson has done his homework (again). Kagawa, used in his best position, can be a hit.”

 

But Kagawa didn’t come highly recommended by all of United’s top scouts. One senior scout who watched him for Borussia Dortmund concluded that he wasn’t fast enough or strong enough to play in English football. His opinion was overridden by Sir Alex Ferguson and his assistant Mike Phelan, plus two other scouts. They watched him at least three times for Dortmund live. They thought he had what it took to succeed at United. They found a fellow enthusiast in chief executive David Gill, who saw the football and economic potential of the top Japanese player.

 

Japan is the world’s third biggest economy and the Japanese love the cult of personality and celebrity. Beckham was huge in Japan and he wasn’t even Japanese. Gill saw a perfect fit for a football club increasing its roster of global sponsors.

Kagawa’s signing was everything United hoped – in Japan. Within three months, his shirt was the third best seller in the Megastore. Japanese journalists relocated to Manchester and at one pre-season game in Oslo last August, there were more Japanese journalists than British. United tied up several sponsorship deals with Japanese companies, their main football magazines carry articles on Shinji in every issue and United played two pre-season games in Yokohama and Osaka this July, both of which sold out to a combined crowd of over 100,000. Kagawa was United’s spokesman before and after both games, his every word headline news – even if some were twisted. A remark about his affection for Dortmund was somehow reported as him wanting to return to Germany. That he should even be linked back to Germany after a year should have been a surprise, but, sadly, elsewhere matters haven’t worked out as hoped.

 

There have been flashes of brilliance and occasional games in which Kagawa stood out, but he hasn’t had the impact many hoped for. He can be so frustrating to watch because he’s hugely gifted. The question is how to integrate those gifts into United’s style, especially as that style constantly changes depending on the opposition. Kagawa has had to adapt by playing well in different roles, though that’s easier said than done. Ferguson wasn’t stupid, he knew Kagawa’s abilities, his deft touches and vision, his passing accuracy. He also knew his weaknesses, that he’s not a defender or physically strong. And yet Kagawa could be crucial to United in Europe, where another option is needed, something more intelligent than the United which overwhelms opponents with high pressured attacking, using force and pace as much as skill. This approach works against Wigan, but not against Barcelona.

 

Kagawa started in United’s biggest game of last season, away to Real Madrid. He was average. I spoke to him in the mixed zone after the game. He said that he was “satisfied” with how he’d played, but his eyes told a different story. He knew he had to raise his game. He hadn’t stood out and you need to stand out when you play for United.

 

Like Rooney, who’d also performed poorly in Spain, Kagawa was dropped for Madrid at home. In the meantime, he was picked to play against Norwich at Old Trafford and scored a well-taken hat-trick. Two of his other goals last season came in the first month of the season against Fulham at home in August on his home debut and against Tottenham Hotspur at home in September. Again, cool finishes. His sixth goal came against West Brom in the freakish 5-5 end of season match.

 

Kagawa started last term well and finished well, but injury struck just as he was settling in. Ferguson’s most revealing quote about him came after United’s April 2-2 draw at West Ham. Kagawa started only his 13th league game for United and excelled at a stadium where he’d performed poorly in January’s FA Cup 3rd round tie.

Then, he was ineffective and short of the quality necessary to be a United player, though he had just returned from injury.

 

By April, he was United’s best player, showing wondrous balance and vision, providing an assist for a goal and almost scoring a beautiful effort himself. When Wayne Rooney was substituted, the Englishman looked disappointed. Sir Alex Ferguson explained why.

“As far as taking Wayne off, it was simple. He wasn’t playing as well as Shinji and we wanted to get that goal. There have been so many games where Wayne has been better than most players, but on the night, Shinji was playing so well.”

Ferguson was not finished.

“I think Shinji is doing very well for us now. He has fantastic composure on the ball and always seems to pick the more sensible pass. He was terrific for the first goal, showing the composure to take the player on in a tight area and roll the ball into Antonio Valencia.”

 

His words were more significant because Ferguson saw Kagawa as more integral to United’s future than Rooney. He didn’t think that three months before and that’s in part because of Rooney and in part because of Kagawa.

 

Kagawa finished the season with a flourish and his pass in the build up for Robin Van Persie’s hat-trick strike when United were crowned champions for the 20th time against Aston Villa was tantalizing.

 

The future looked bright for Kagawa. The shape of United’s team was evolving and Kagawa looked like he could become central to the way United play. Ferguson surrounded himself with able lieutenants like Rene Muelensteen, who was an advocate of a Barcelona-style high-pressing game with smaller players running around not letting other teams have the ball. Smaller players like Kagawa. There was a school of thought among the coaches that it was the right way to win the Champions League again.

 

It’s believed that some of the more senior players in the squad, like Rooney and Ferdinand, weren’t in favour. They felt United should stick to the tried and tested methods which have been so successful, especially domestically. They don’t make the decisions and there was a strong chance that Rooney wouldn’t be around to see any chances implemented.

 

Then it all changed on 8th May when Ferguson stepped down.

Ferguson had moved on and yet Kagawa’s progress hasn’t. David Moyes met him for the first time in Yokohama and said:

“I know a little about him as a player. Sir Alex spoke in glowing terms about Shinji and how good a player he is. I’ve just met him today, so we’re getting to know each other. I’m trying to learn Japanese and he’s trying to understand my Scottish! It was his first season in the Premier League last year. He’s a young player so we hope his development continues.”

Kagawa smiled. A score of cameras clicked. A beaming Shinji would provide the cover story for the following day.

Nearly two months on and Kagawa hasn’t played a single minute for United. Shinji has been the main victim of Moyes so far. Moyes has not spoken a bad word against him, he just hasn’t selected him.

 

Far from being a key member of the first team that many fans hoped, a frustrated Kagawa was not even on the bench for the game at Liverpool, a game he began last season. Asked about the decision after the game, Moyes admitted that it was a straight choice between Shinji and Nani for a place on the bench.

It gets worse for Kagawa. United identified various players who would have been a threat to Kagawa’s position during the close season, Cesc Fabregas and Ander Herrera being two.

 

Moyes claims that Shinji will get his chance, that they have been issues with his fitness after he arrived late for pre-season after competing in the Confederations Cup.

Kagawa may be exasperated, but he’s not the only one. Asked about Shinji, his former boss Jurgen Klopp hit his head with his palm in frustration. Then he said: “Shinji Kagawa is one of the best players in the world and he now plays 20 minutes at Manchester United – on the left wing! My heart breaks. Really, I have tears in my eyes. Central midfield is Shinji’s best role. He’s an offensive midfielder with one of the best noses for goal I ever saw. But for most Japanese people it means more to play for Man United than Dortmund. We cried for 20 minutes, in each others’ arms when he left.”

 

Kagawa isn’t even playing 20 minutes at the moment. Surely he deserves his chance

 

 

Good read

 

So sad

[Mame Biram Diouf]

 

 

The lyrics are too real right now

[Mame Biram Diouf]

 

 

 

To

 

 

 

[Kompressor]

I'm hearing Moyes is a small time manager with a small Time mentality.

To the people who have this train of thought, why do you believe he was employed at this time?

The people in charge surely would've known that this was a mainly a upper midtable manager who has won nothing.

So again, ask yourself why arguably "the biggest club in the world" employed this man as a successor to one of the greatest to ever do it?

Genuinely interested to hear people's views on this.

Also people are on about real issues. If a managerial God like Fergie and a "Coaching god" like Rene couldn't find a definitive and crucial role for Kagawa how the hell is a "mere peasant" like Moyes going to do it?

Kagawa's purchases was fucked over by the chance and opportunist purchase of RVP, as RVP then took the role earmarked for Rooney and in turn Rooney took Kagawa's role.

If Fergie was still in charge I imagine The squad would probably be minus Rooney.

To people saying the squad is good enough, I'll put this forward. This squad with Fergie's leadership is good enough. But the reality is if a United first 11 and bench is listed, how many of those get into the teams of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, or Liverpool?

These are very different times. If you are of the opinion that from the get go Moyes wasn't good enough all that means is that these are very very different times.

The question still needs to be asked as to why the biggest club in the world decided to employ a manager with no tangible honours or real champions league experience as manager.

[Young £]

fellaini and carrick cant play together ukna lol, and its not cause of 'immobility'

 

rage

What do you think the problem is?

From what I've seen so far, he's playing to conservatively & not driving at the opposition enough & being dominant. I don't understand how you can play against Yaya who basically gave you the blueprint on how to do so in the derby & be so timid.

Moyes

 

plus both of their inability to carry the ball, both of their 1st thoughts when the ball is received is to stop it and move it on, rarely will they take a step with it, and with Rooney in front of em its hilarious really

[Young £]

I'm hearing Moyes is a small time manager with a small Time mentality.

To the people who have this train of thought, why do you believe he was employed at this time?

The people in charge surely would've known that this was a mainly a upper midtable manager who has won nothing.

So again, ask yourself why arguably "the biggest club in the world" employed this man as a successor to one of the greatest to ever do it?

Genuinely interested to hear people's views on this.

They're idiots, Fergies been going senile for years & they didn't want Man UTD in the hands of a foreigner

[darkman]

Young £ what position do think is best suited for Fellani?

[Young £]

Also people are on about real issues. If a managerial God like Fergie and a "Coaching god" like Rene couldn't find a definitive and crucial role for Kagawa how the hell is a "mere peasant" like Moyes going to do it?

Kagawa's purchases was f*cked over by the chance and opportunist purchase of RVP, as RVP then took the role earmarked for Rooney and in turn Rooney took Kagawa's role.

 

Myth, Fergie at first didn't know what to do, but after he had that run in the team he found a place in the team and consistency, 

 

- He started roughly 80% of the PL games when he wasn't injured.

- He had roughly 90% passing accuracy(only Scholes did better).

- He was the player in the team with the highest average number of key passes per game.

- He had the 4th best goals/assist ratio, only surpassed by 3 STRIKERS (RVP, Hernandez, Rooney).