The Islamic Caliphate

[PascalMoriarty]

Thun, Gambino I mean this in the most polite way I can, but its too easy for you both to have the opinions you have. Forget the repercussions, the inevitable ones that will come thick and fast as a result of our involvement. But consider on a human level the type of destruction you are asking for, none of us have ever lived in a time or place under genuine threat. Paris attacks were a tragedy, as has been every other attack in which innocent people throughout Europe and the rest of the world have suffered. But what you're providing as a solution is cyclical and will only mean our children find themselves in exactly the same position. The idea that ISIS are the new age Vikings/Romans/British Empire looking to conquer and consume all before them is insane. They are radicals whos cause is helped by the naive and volatile reactions we have to their acts of aggression. We can't promote the message that the answer to senseless acts of violence is further widespread controlled and over exaggerated violence. What's the point in diplomacy if we only really abide by it when its comfortable and easy?

[Gambino]

 

Let me get this straight......... You want everyone to leave IS to invade the whole of the middle east, North Africa and Southern Europe and then when they are big enough and powerful enough to be a serious global threat you think they are going to look at their book which fuels them and tells them to conquer all non believers and say alright lads, that's enough, these bits of land will do us nicely?

but Russia are already attacking them. You think ISIS can grow whilst Russia's attacking them? couple that with financial ostracizing and its a wrap for them.  

 

 

Whether they can or cannot grow his thinking was "Allow them to do what they want" it's not our business. I guess us getting involved is some politically motivated big ego move to make us relevant and please our Allies.

[Gambino]

Thun, Gambino I mean this in the most polite way I can, but its too easy for you both to have the opinions you have. Forget the repercussions, the inevitable ones that will come thick and fast as a result of our involvement. But consider on a human level the type of destruction you are asking for, none of us have ever lived in a time or place under genuine threat. Paris attacks were a tragedy, as has been every other attack in which innocent people throughout Europe and the rest of the world have suffered. But what you're providing as a solution is cyclical and will only mean our children find themselves in exactly the same position. The idea that ISIS are the new age Vikings/Romans/British Empire looking to conquer and consume all before them is insane. They are radicals whos cause is helped by the naive and volatile reactions we have to their acts of aggression. We can't promote the message that the answer to senseless acts of violence is further widespread controlled and over exaggerated violence. What's the point in diplomacy if we only really abide by it when its comfortable and easy?

 

I don't ever want to live through a threat like that either that's why I'm happy for our superior technology to go over there and blitz our enemies so they never become in a position to mass an army and walk into Europe because then it would be on. Like Venom said earlier, I'm no Soldier, I've never had any ambition to have to go overseas and fight a war. I'm thankful as f*ck to the guys who do join the Army, Navy and Air force like my Grandparents did. I already stated and firmly believe that British Military personnel are not going into war zones blood thirsty looking to murder civilians. Right now we've bombed Oil Fields and we can be happy with that. If these peaceful Muslims in these countries despise IS like they are meant too then they will be or should be grateful that we are doing what we do, providing we're not hitting the wrong targets.

[PascalMoriarty]

 

Thun, Gambino I mean this in the most polite way I can, but its too easy for you both to have the opinions you have. Forget the repercussions, the inevitable ones that will come thick and fast as a result of our involvement. But consider on a human level the type of destruction you are asking for, none of us have ever lived in a time or place under genuine threat. Paris attacks were a tragedy, as has been every other attack in which innocent people throughout Europe and the rest of the world have suffered. But what you're providing as a solution is cyclical and will only mean our children find themselves in exactly the same position. The idea that ISIS are the new age Vikings/Romans/British Empire looking to conquer and consume all before them is insane. They are radicals whos cause is helped by the naive and volatile reactions we have to their acts of aggression. We can't promote the message that the answer to senseless acts of violence is further widespread controlled and over exaggerated violence. What's the point in diplomacy if we only really abide by it when its comfortable and easy?

 

I don't ever want to live through a threat like that either that's why I'm happy for our superior technology to go over there and blitz our enemies so they never become in a position to mass an army and walk into Europe because then it would be on. Like Venom said earlier, I'm no Soldier, I've never had any ambition to have to go overseas and fight a war. I'm thankful as f*ck to the guys who do join the Army, Navy and Air force like my Grandparents did. I already stated and firmly believe that British Military personnel are not going into war zones blood thirsty looking to murder civilians. Right now we've bombed Oil Fields and we can be happy with that.

 

 

Right now you've been told we've bombed oil fields....

[Gambino]

 

 

Thun, Gambino I mean this in the most polite way I can, but its too easy for you both to have the opinions you have. Forget the repercussions, the inevitable ones that will come thick and fast as a result of our involvement. But consider on a human level the type of destruction you are asking for, none of us have ever lived in a time or place under genuine threat. Paris attacks were a tragedy, as has been every other attack in which innocent people throughout Europe and the rest of the world have suffered. But what you're providing as a solution is cyclical and will only mean our children find themselves in exactly the same position. The idea that ISIS are the new age Vikings/Romans/British Empire looking to conquer and consume all before them is insane. They are radicals whos cause is helped by the naive and volatile reactions we have to their acts of aggression. We can't promote the message that the answer to senseless acts of violence is further widespread controlled and over exaggerated violence. What's the point in diplomacy if we only really abide by it when its comfortable and easy?

 

I don't ever want to live through a threat like that either that's why I'm happy for our superior technology to go over there and blitz our enemies so they never become in a position to mass an army and walk into Europe because then it would be on. Like Venom said earlier, I'm no Soldier, I've never had any ambition to have to go overseas and fight a war. I'm thankful as f*ck to the guys who do join the Army, Navy and Air force like my Grandparents did. I already stated and firmly believe that British Military personnel are not going into war zones blood thirsty looking to murder civilians. Right now we've bombed Oil Fields and we can be happy with that.

 

 

Right now you've been told we've bombed oil fields....

 

 

So you think British Soldiers are blood thirsty and looking to bomb Civilians?

[PascalMoriarty]

I didn't say that Gambino, not in any of the above posts did I even insinuate it. British Soldiers do as they are instructed, by generals instructed by politicans we voted into power.

[Gambino]

We'll have to just go along with what we are told and hope our British Soldiers are doing before pointing the finger at them.. I didn't vote them Politicians into Power. I voted with the other 3.9 Million people and got no representation in Parliament. IMO The war should of been a public vote too.

[PascalMoriarty]

IMO The war should of been a public vote too.

 

This much we agree on!!

[Thun]

Thun, Gambino I mean this in the most polite way I can, but its too easy for you both to have the opinions you have. Forget the repercussions, the inevitable ones that will come thick and fast as a result of our involvement. But consider on a human level the type of destruction you are asking for, none of us have ever lived in a time or place under genuine threat. Paris attacks were a tragedy, as has been every other attack in which innocent people throughout Europe and the rest of the world have suffered. But what you're providing as a solution is cyclical and will only mean our children find themselves in exactly the same position. The idea that ISIS are the new age Vikings/Romans/British Empire looking to conquer and consume all before them is insane. They are radicals whos cause is helped by the naive and volatile reactions we have to their acts of aggression. We can't promote the message that the answer to senseless acts of violence is further widespread controlled and over exaggerated violence. What's the point in diplomacy if we only really abide by it when its comfortable and easy?

On a human level the destruction by them will be far far greater if we sit back and hope they don't grow and invade other cities and countries pilliaging and murdering

It's naive to think they are not growing and history has shown how you cannot underestimate these situations because you got to act before it's too late

I don't see this logic of thinking they won't attack us if we dont go attack them, its more likely by sitting back and not intervening they will grow and be more likely to be able to facilitate more attacks

[VENOM]

Let me get this straight......... You want everyone to leave IS to invade the whole of the middle east, North Africa and Southern Europe and then when they are big enough and powerful enough to be a serious global threat you think they are going to look at their book which fuels them and tells them to conquer all non believers and say alright lads, that's enough, these bits of land will do us nicely?

you are the one giving that amount of power to actually think that. you are listening to "analysts" pissed that they wont be able to make guzillions from the oil fields tell you that these big bad people are capable of taking over the middle east. 

 

how stupid are you people. the land they have taken now is because there is little or no government in place. outside of that they are surrounded by sovereign nations.

 

 

i still believe that the blow back will be on the saudi/quatari emirates which will lead to a real revolution in these lands. 

 

then lets see what the west will do when real sharia governments are in place in that region. because ultimately all roads will eventually lead to Israel. 

[Gambino]

From when there is a sizeable percentage of sympathizers in this country and girls that live 10 minutes down the road from me running off from a British Lifestyle to join this shit, you know what time it is. How stupid are you that you want to allow them to be left to grow by inviting their fans, forcing others to accept them and grooming the kids to be their future infantry.

[Mr. Martinez]

Crazy how things change..

In 1958, Britain and America sought a secretive "regime change" in Syria. The plan called for funding of a "Free Syria Committee", and the arming of "political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities" within Syria.

 

Macmillan backed Syria assassination plot

Nearly 50 years before the war in Iraq, Britain and America sought a secretive "regime change" in another Arab country they accused of spreading terror and threatening the west's oil supplies, by planning the invasion of Syria and the assassination of leading figures.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/sep/27/uk.syria1

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Rah

[Supermalt]

Fuckery like that isn't confined to history...

[james00]

 

Our David.

[Gambino]

To be fair he's talking about the concept that Russia are bombing "Non Terrorists" and Assad rivals.

[james00]

To be fair he's talking about the concept that Russia are bombing "Non Terrorists" and Assad rivals.

Am pretty sure dead civilians leads to terrorism just as much as "non terrorist" so his point is made redundant.

[Gambino]

But your trying to link 2 comments that are not in the same context. The first comment he made is about people not wanting to Bomb ISIS Terrorists, like Corbyn who was heartbroken at the news John got hit. His other comment is about Russian Jets hitting Civilians which fuels them to hate.

[james00]

But your trying to link 2 comments that are not in the same context. The first comment he made is about people not wanting to Bomb ISIS Terrorists, like Corbyn who was heartbroken at the news John got hit. His other comment is about Russian Jets hitting Civilians which fuels them to hate.

but his argument was based on the outcome.

 

And if you want to talk context how does Britain have more justification in bombing than Russia?

[Gambino]

I don't particular give a shit about Cameron but I'm talking about that picture alone, which is clearly trying to paint him out as being contradictive. But I've explained the statements. And save this excuse about ISIS being among Civilians etc etc. We're currently bombing Oil Fields. We'll talk again when you can come and give me proof British Soldiers are targeting innocent people. For the record IMO that doesn't include them crowds who turn up to cheer them on whilst they throw gay people off buildings.

[PascalMoriarty]

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/dec/04/so-david-camerons-70000-syrian-forces-claim-really-is-dodgy

 

Good thing the internet works quicker now than it did in 2001.

[james00]

I don't particular give a sh*t about Cameron but I'm talking about that picture alone, which is clearly trying to paint him out as being contradictive. But I've explained the statements. And save this excuse about ISIS being among Civilians etc etc. We're currently bombing Oil Fields. We'll talk again when you can come and give me proof British Soldiers are targeting innocent people. For the record IMO that doesn't include them crowds who turn up to cheer them on whilst they throw gay people off buildings.

never said British soldiers target civilians but we all know the us and Britain have terrible aim.

[james00]

. 

[QPR Dee]

A French journalist held hostage by Islamic State for 10 months, has made an impassioned plea against bombing Syria, saying it was a trap that would only benefit Isis.

Nicolas Hénin, previously held hostage by Mohammed Emwazi, implored the international community to seek a political solution. Engaging with Syrians, not bombing them, was the surest way to bring about the collapse of Isis, he said.

In a five-minute video said to have been recorded in the past few days in Paris and posted on YouTube by the Syria Campaign, Hénin said: “Strikes on Isis are a trap. The winner of this war will not be the parties that have the newest, most expensive, most sophisticated weaponry, but the party that manages to have the people on its side.”

In his message, apparently timed to coincide with Wednesday’s UK parliament debate on joining Syria airstrikes, he said: “At the moment, with the bombings, we are more likely pushing the people into the hands of Isis. What we have to do, and this is really key, we have to engage the local people.

“As soon as the people have hope in the political solution, then Islamic State will just collapse. It will have no ground any more. It will collapse.”

Hénin was released along with other French hostages in April 2014. He had been held captive alongside James Foley, Steven Sotloff, David Haines and Alan Henning, who were all murdered by Emwazi.

“Mohammed Emwazi was one of my captors. He is the one who murdered my friends,” said Hénin. “I can’t prevent myself from thinking for the six murders that he committed, face to camera, murders of westerners, how many Syrians did he kill, and who cares for them?”

He said the jihadis lived in a parallel world and a “different matrix”. They believed in a “mad prophecy” that there would be a global confrontation between a coalition of “80 armies against an army of Muslims coming from all over the world” and were “a bit out of their mind”.

Hénin said: “Why are we making so many mistakes? Why are people so much misunderstanding the region? We are just fuelling our enemies, and fuelling the misery, the disaster for the local people.”

He said the radicalisation was the result of passivity by the international community, who failed to assist Syrian democrats “as they were yelling for their freedom, and the Syrians were living in total despair”.

He said: “For every single Syrian killed since the beginning of this conflict by Islamic State, between seven and 10 have been killed by the Syrian regime. We have to understand that these two parallel disasters for the Syrian people, they depend one on the other, and one cannot fight one without fighting the other.”

Hénin said the summer refugee crisis had been a propaganda blow to Isis. Images of refugees fleeing the Muslim “dreamland” and being welcomed in the lands of “unbelievers” had given a lie to their message of western hatred towards Muslims, he said. “And that is why they probably tried to manipulate the public during the Paris attack, to make us close our borders, and maybe, even more importantly, to close our minds.”

There was an easy way to make Islamic State “lose ground at high speed” he said. “It would be for the international community to take the decision that all the Syrian regions that are held by the opposition are no-fly zones; no-fly zones for everybody. Not the coalition, not the Russians, not the regime. Nobody. So, actually to provide security to the people would be devastating for Isis and this is what the international community should focus on,” he said.

The realness.

Nothing but real shit