hiphop Kanye West

[Yeshua]

He has like 3/4 classic albums, even my favourite rapper hasn't done that.

And my favourite rapper is a genius.

Kanye is a genius with music, doesn't matter what he does, he makes music that for the most part is universally accepted regardless of genre.

Swear only MJ has done that.

Not comparing the two, i'm just making an observation.

 

Nah not at all, a lot of artists have done that.

 

Also Kanye doesn't have 3/4 classic albums at all.

[Yeshua]

Lads he doesn't write his own rhymes and he doesn't make his own beats.

Maybe the term genius changed definition in the past 10 years and I missed that memo but he's just got an ear for music nothing more nothing less.

 

You can't be using terms like genius for Kanye, when there are artists who play like 14 instrumentx and still churn out classic music.

 

Kanye isn't even a poetic genius, like someone like Nas is.

 

He isn't a genius at all tbh, he is a decent rapper and a very good producer, that is all.

 

And he's input in terms of what he actually produces and writes is blurry.

[dub]

 

You know what it's all you stans who bredded him so tough when he was knocking it out the park album after album.

That's the reason this prick thinks he's a genius.

 

100

 

good 80% of these folk had jayzs cizzock in their mizzouths as well

 

regardless of who's done what for him, its undeniable that he has a great catalogue, who that's come after him can boast similar?

how many before him even?

 

My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy - even if he wrote nothing on this (I'm not saying he did, but for the sake of argument lets imagine it), surely there must be something special about him that has caused what many would call the best rap album in recent times, otherwise why wouldn't others have been able to pull it off?

 

leave it 

 

 

Okay, so since that album what has been better?

[Wavant]

Arrogant Ye >>>

He's elite.

[Niall Ferguson]

f*cking hell, genius you know

 

Real low bar there

1. It could easily be argued that he is a musical genius. 

2. Please explain to me, using your own words what a genius is.

[Heero Yuy]

He has like 3/4 classic albums, even my favourite rapper hasn't done that.

And my favourite rapper is a genius.

Kanye is a genius with music, doesn't matter what he does, he makes music that for the most part is universally accepted regardless of genre.

Swear only MJ has done that.

Not comparing the two, i'm just making an observation.

Nah not at all, a lot of artists have done that.

Also Kanye doesn't have 3/4 classic albums at all.

Name me some artists, and the term classic is subjective... But as someone who doesn't even like Kanye i think he has 3 classic albums.

I think in terms of Kanye, his formula is what is genius. That's why I said he's a genius with music, he is not a muscial genius.

[Niall Ferguson]

 

 

He has like 3/4 classic albums, even my favourite rapper hasn't done that.

And my favourite rapper is a genius.

Kanye is a genius with music, doesn't matter what he does, he makes music that for the most part is universally accepted regardless of genre.

Swear only MJ has done that.

Not comparing the two, i'm just making an observation.

Nah not at all, a lot of artists have done that.

Also Kanye doesn't have 3/4 classic albums at all.

Name me some artists, and the term classic is subjective... But as someone who doesn't even like Kanye i think he has 3 classic albums.

I think in terms of Kanye, his formula is what is genius. That's why I said he's a genius with music, he is not a muscial genius.

 

Classic can be both subjective and objective, but let's not get into that here or at least just yet.

 

When you say Kanye's formula is genius, can you elaborate on this, and how it is distinct from being a musical genius? There is a danger we over complicate this with semantic arguments.  

[PascalMoriarty]

 

 

 

He has like 3/4 classic albums, even my favourite rapper hasn't done that.

And my favourite rapper is a genius.

Kanye is a genius with music, doesn't matter what he does, he makes music that for the most part is universally accepted regardless of genre.

Swear only MJ has done that.

Not comparing the two, i'm just making an observation.

Nah not at all, a lot of artists have done that.

Also Kanye doesn't have 3/4 classic albums at all.

Name me some artists, and the term classic is subjective... But as someone who doesn't even like Kanye i think he has 3 classic albums.

I think in terms of Kanye, his formula is what is genius. That's why I said he's a genius with music, he is not a muscial genius.

 

Classic can be both subjective and objective, but let's not get into that here or at least just yet.

 

When you say Kanye's formula is genius, can you elaborate on this, and how it is distinct from being a musical genius? There is a danger we over complicate this with semantic arguments.  

 

 

I don't think that anything he has done can as yet be classed as "Classic" until it has stood the test of time. Its only 11 years old, its definitely not classic yet.

 

He isn't a musical genius, he was a good producer, a witty rapper, and now an egomaniac who put both of those things he previously was in the shadow of his awareness of self, through music fame and his spectacle of a partner.

[Niall Ferguson]

 

I don't think that anything he has done can as yet be classed as "Classic" until it has stood the test of time. Its only 11 years old, its definitely not classic yet.

 

He isn't a musical genius, he was a good producer, a witty rapper, and now an egomaniac who put both of those things he previously was in the shadow of his awareness of self, through music fame and his spectacle of a partner.

 

 

1. You're using a definition of classic that makes no sense in the fast paced world of hip-hop/pop music. The time frame you use should be much shorter. I think most credible music observers would be easily able to define "classic" and I would bet a large amount that MOST (i.e. more than 70%) would consider Kanye's albums as classic. The beauty of music is such that you can hear something only a few times and decide in your mind (by comparing it to everything that you've heard before it) whether it fits classic status or not. Alongside all of the other objective measures like long term sales, spins, musical impact etc. Kanye has been so original (see 808s and Heartbreak, just for one example) that to deny him any classic albums is ridiculous. 

 

2. Your "he isn't a genius" argument is pretty bad and basically full of your opinions, nothing objective.

[ag.]

you cant really talk about objectivity when ur using phrases like 'the beauty of music'

[PascalMoriarty]

 

 

I don't think that anything he has done can as yet be classed as "Classic" until it has stood the test of time. Its only 11 years old, its definitely not classic yet.

 

He isn't a musical genius, he was a good producer, a witty rapper, and now an egomaniac who put both of those things he previously was in the shadow of his awareness of self, through music fame and his spectacle of a partner.

 

 

1. You're using a definition of classic that makes no sense in the fast paced world of hip-hop/pop music. The time frame you use should be much shorter. I think most credible music observers would be easily able to define "classic" and I would bet a large amount that MOST (i.e. more than 70%) would consider Kanye's albums as classic. The beauty of music is such that you can hear something only a few times and decide in your mind (by comparing it to everything that you've heard before it) whether it fits classic status or not. Alongside all of the other objective measures like long term sales, spins, musical impact etc. Kanye has been so original (see 808s and Heartbreak, just for one example) that to deny him any classic albums is ridiculous. 

 

2. Your "he isn't a genius" argument is pretty bad and basically full of your opinions, nothing objective.

 

 

1. Classic: "judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind" Classic "very typical of its kind.". My definition of Classic is the only one that realistically could be applied to your claim. If your argument is that Kanye has been so original then you couldn't be alluding to it being classic in the "Very typical of its kind" sense. Meaning we are looking at over a period of time, I don't think the musical landscape has shifted far enough in any other direction for you to categorically call his music classic. Groundbreaking when released, pioneering in that it changed the way the genre sounded for the years that immediately followed, but classic still, i don't think can be certified of his music.

 

2. Every argument is formed of opinion, so your rebuttal is redundant. To further explain, he isn't a musical genius, Mozart was a musical genius, Quincy Jones was a musical genius. Being able to rejig samples with the help of instrumentalists and protege producers that you oversee, doesn't make you a "musical genius", it makes you a good producer.

[TF S4DK]

Lads he doesn't write his own rhymes and he doesn't make his own beats.

Maybe the term genius changed definition in the past 10 years and I missed that memo but he's just got an ear for music nothing more nothing less.

 

[Thizz]

What's the problem?

[TF S4DK]

Neither being true.

 

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

[The Infamous]

Neither being true.

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

truss

And pmsl at people acting like sampling isnt a hard (and a skilled part of producing). Why dont u go sampling and get a ghost writer and become a global superstar urself then.

[Thizz]

Oh I thought as soon as a rapper used a ghostwriter/producer once they were labelled for life?

 

 

Neither being true.

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

truss

And pmsl at people acting like sampling isnt a hard (and a skilled part of producing). Why dont u go sampling and get a ghost writer and become a global superstar urself then.

 

 

You do know he didn't even chop a lot of his early samples himself?

[Kuffir]

we need links

[The Infamous]

Oh I thought as soon as a rapper used a ghostwriter/producer once they were labelled for life?

Neither being true.

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

truss

And pmsl at people acting like sampling isnt a hard (and a skilled part of producing). Why dont u go sampling and get a ghost writer and become a global superstar urself then.

You do know he didn't even chop a lot of his early samples himself?

ok Dame

[gattsu]

Neither being true.

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

truss

And pmsl at people acting like sampling isnt a hard (and a skilled part of producing). Why dont u go sampling and get a ghost writer and become a global superstar urself then.

Kayne west as a producer is far better than Kayne west the beatmaker

I'm not saying he's diddy or khaled , but let's be real here

[The Infamous]

Neither being true.

Element of truth, but dont make him sound Diddy fraud.

truss

And pmsl at people acting like sampling isnt a hard (and a skilled part of producing). Why dont u go sampling and get a ghost writer and become a global superstar urself then.

Kayne west as a producer is far better than Kayne west the beatmaker

I'm not saying he's diddy or khaled , but let's be real here

Yeah but every producer worth his salt Dre,Timbo,Pharrel have been accused of being a producer and not a "beat maker"

[Mizchif]

Nobody can deny Kanye is exceptionally talented, and to be honest the genius title gets thrown around too easily anyways. Kanye is as skilled as any modern musician, he knows how to make music that transcends cultures and becomes a culture in itself.

 

Stevie Wonder and Elton John can easily fit into this category, Kanye is still a couple of classic songs away but he's on the right path

[Niall Ferguson]

you cant really talk about objectivity when ur using phrases like 'the beauty of music'

 

Did this form the basis of my argument?

 

Simple yes or no will suffice.

[Niall Ferguson]

 

1. Classic: "judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind" Classic "very typical of its kind.". My definition of Classic is the only one that realistically could be applied to your claim. If your argument is that Kanye has been so original then you couldn't be alluding to it being classic in the "Very typical of its kind" sense. Meaning we are looking at over a period of time, I don't think the musical landscape has shifted far enough in any other direction for you to categorically call his music classic. Groundbreaking when released, pioneering in that it changed the way the genre sounded for the years that immediately followed, but classic still, i don't think can be certified of his music.

 

 

2. Every argument is formed of opinion, so your rebuttal is redundant. To further explain, he isn't a musical genius, Mozart was a musical genius, Quincy Jones was a musical genius. Being able to rejig samples with the help of instrumentalists and protege producers that you oversee, doesn't make you a "musical genius", it makes you a good producer.

 

 

 

OK, here goes.

 

1) Would you say that NONE of Kanye's albums are of the highest quality and outstanding of their kind, yes or no? If you think this, then fine, you are entitled to that view. I would disagree. Incidentally, if you answer YES, then can you tell me which albums over the last 11 years fit into this category? 

 

2) Every argument is not formed of opinion. Depends on whether we're arguing deductively or inductively. All arguments are formed of propositions, sentences and statements, many of which can be incontrovertibly true. Many people like to argue predominantly on the basis of opinion, and as such their arguments are easier to rebut. Let me show you:

 

To further explain, he isn't a musical genius,  = Opinion (and one for which there is no objective test, but one can use comparison as a test)

 

Mozart was a musical genius = Opinion (but one generally agreeable)

 

Quincy Jones was a musical genius = Opinion (and I would like you (in your own words) to explain why, and why those achievements/skills are superior to Kanye's)

 

 

Being able to rejig samples with the help of instrumentalists and protege producers that you oversee, doesn't make you a "musical genius", it makes you a good producer. = Opinion (I have to ask then, if Kanye is merely a good producer, who is a great producer in the modern era, and why is he better than Kanye? 

[ag.]

ur still making subjective observations under a guise of objectivity

[Don.j.w]

Lol at Kanye being a genius the guys a deluded d*ckhead. As for classic hip hop albums Kanye has never dropped and never will drop an album on par with the likes of Ready To Die, Illmatic, Doggystyle, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik etc...