The Official Manchester United Thread

[Agony]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25282245

 

 

 

I ain't played FM for a hot minute but even I know statements like this in form like that result in even worse morale.

Lol

September 2013

Indeed, Moyes has even suggested that the United squad is not as good as their title win last season. "I think a lot of people thought Manchester United [won the title] last season but it was probably the form of other teams that was poor," he said.

December 2013

After a 1-0 loss to Newcastle followed defeat by Everton , Moyes said: "I stand firm we will be very close. I hope we are in it at the end of the season."

When asked why he was so confident, he said: "The players - because I am working with the champions."

[Flojo]

Lol I disagree with Kompressor's opinion but I love that there are people within the fan base that have his outlook, the worst/best thing is that there are probably loads like him who are perceived by others to be the rational thinkers whereas man like Agony who could see the obvious from early is seen as a gobshite.

Moyes isn't good enough for the job and I don't care how many transfer windows you give him I'm convinced he never will be.

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for him, he looks like he's aged about 6 years in 6 months.

#moyeseraforever

[Kompressor]

Did Pep not say about a year ago he wants to be seduced back into club management ?

 

as ive already said.... for next up there was a 1 man shortlist and it was drawn up by SAF

 

the squad is not great but its not as bad as the media/casual fans will make out especially in the center of the park but it is an ageing side and that is on fergie... however this squad and its age would have been perfect for the man who thought he was going to get the job

 

jose.. not much flair a lot of hard workers and players who need to be drilled at what they should be doing for the whole 90... with 1 or 2 astute jose style signings he would have maintained a title challenging side and for his shortcomings that some of us have been pointing out for a while it would have not reared its head for at least 2/3 seasons because he has no friends at the club.....  its no secret he was gutted that his ass licking of fergie for the last 5 years or so was not rewarded with the call he thought he was going to get and moyes getting it instead.... think that was actually sir bobbys decision that at not wanting a brash manager at the club even though thats what a younger fergie was.

 

once fergie made the choice for moyes i dont think even he thought it would be this bad.... the top managers would have brought the best out of the current squad...gained the players or even demanded the players respect but for moyes to start doing well and start shining he will need a complete squad rehaul imo which he will have the chance to do and with 6/7 world class signings his own players...in 2/3 seasons when he has his own players and built his own side united will be back in the top 4 and challenging for silverware but right now he is being found out for the average negative manager that he is and where as most of us on here and a few other football forums (us the minority) would still be able to see through his rubbish i think its come as a shock to the likes of fergie that he has been so bad that even the casuals and media/press are getting onto him so early in his reign 

 

all he had to do was remain in and around the top 4, beating the smaller sides...winning his home games (like pellegrini and mourinho) and he would have been under 0 pressure at all in this "transition" period and would have got (which he still will) a nice chunk of change to reinforce the "weak" center of midfield in january...he would not have to pander to the old trafford crowd and undermine himself....

 

as it is right now he is 1 home defeat away from throwing all the blame away from the "weak" midfield, ageing squad, "transition" period and lack of his own players onto himself and once the media and casuals start talking about his own shortcomings as a manager instead of anderson, welbeck, cleverly, young, fellaini, nani and rio.... then there will be some serious problems for him.

 

 

As for the bigger problems at man united thats a variable that can not be changed and the previous manager made it work and other managers in worse situations are making it also work and its a different discussion for a different day imo... no one was expecting united to be sitting 8 pts clear right now but at the same time no one was expecting them to be closer to the relegation zone then the league leaders and for a side that just won the league by 11pts and strengthened the squad not losing any players....the board can not be blamed for this happening, with maybe the exception of letting saf decide the manager and even then as i said i dont think fergie would have even predicted this..... 

 

imo having moyes in charge for the next 4-6 seasons will be a lot more expensive than sacking him now and bringing a manager in on a big contract

Not got any major Arguements with that other than the assertion that it was Fergie's choice to make. I'm of the opinion that this point has been exaggerated in order to offer Moyes the security blanket that this was Fergie's choice and not a glazer choice. The reality is somewhere in between is the most likely truth.

This squad being just about adequate is correct as long as the new manager was able to make the 2/3 addition he publicly earmarked in the summer.

He said he wanted 2 midfielders (I'm not even convinced that Fellani was one of these, plus Baines. He got nothing and was left scrambling for Fellani on the last day due to interesting negotiating tactics,

The idea that Manchester United's top job became available and that there's was only one man on the shortlist is ludicrous. If true then the state of ownership ais a lot worse than even the biggest doom predictors would believe. The idea that the only man in the short list was David Moyes a man who has one nothing in the game and biggest positive on his C.V is managing Everton (with all due respect to them securely) total madness.

In short I'm not willing to believe it was a case of Fergie telling the suits, "right I'm leaving and David Moyes should replace me" and nothing more was said or put forward. As anyone on here would at least be able to walk into that meeting and give 3/4 other names that were viable who were at least as accomplished as Moyes.

Once David Moyes was was appointed and in place he should have been given the 2/3 players he wanted. The boat should've been pushed out, we all know why this proved difficult and it has very little to do with Moyes. I'm just surprised he didn't cover up Ed's shoddy work by lamenting the "value in the market"

Your may well be right about bringing in another manager, but seeing as we still have the same suits in charge who you believe couldn't add to the short list of 1 what faith have you got that they have the resources to go out identify and then secure the correct man for the job now?

Or should they just ask Fergie again?

[Kompressor]

Lol I disagree with Kompressor's opinion but I love that there are people within the fan base that have his outlook, the worst/best thing is that there are probably loads like him who are perceived by others to be the rational thinkers whereas man like Agony who could see the obvious from early is seen as a gobshite.

Moyes isn't good enough for the job and I don't care how many transfer windows you give him I'm convinced he never will be.

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for him, he looks like he's aged about 6 years in 6 months.

#moyeseraforever

It's not even about being rational as opposed to the opposing side being irrational. I agree with most if what everyone else is saying. He's not good enough in the short term. I do however believe he could be in the long term.

The only issue is people seem content to put all the issues down to him without look at the whole picture. A picture that shows he hasn't helped himself in many ways granted but also that he hasn't been helped by the people who's job it is to make things easier for him.

I haven't come out in opposition to anyone stating how the tactics are bad and how his comments after and before games leave a lot to be desired,

The rumours about the training not working for certain players etc.

All I'm arguing is against the train of thought that he is THE problem. He is one of many problems that are coming home to roost right now.

Some of those other issues are integral to Moyes being appointed in the first place.

[JOHN DOE]

Manchester United lack confidence, says Jonny Evans

 

Manchester United central defender Jonny Evans says the side are being affected by a lack of confidence.

The Old Trafford side lost to Newcastle on Saturday and are seven points off the top four and 12 points behind leaders Arsenal, who play on Sunday.

"The lads have lost a bit of confidence. You can tell that with the possession and creativity," said Evans.

"Players maybe are not playing how they naturally would. That happens when your confidence drops."

The Old Trafford club have struggled in the top flight this season under David Moyes, who took over in the summer following the retirement of Sir Alex Ferguson.

Play media

 

Man Utd need goals for confidence - Moyes

United have lost five league games so far this season, with three of those coming at home, and have taken just two points from their last four outings.

Their latest defeat against Newcastle saw them denied a penalty when a Patrice Evra header rebounded off the post and hit Vurnon Anita's arm before Yohan Cabaye's winner.

However, Moyes's side failed to mount any significant pressure in search of an equaliser Newcastle earned a first league victory at Old Trafford since 1972.

The result increased the problems Moyes is facing but Magpies boss Alan Pardew has backed his managerial counterpart for overcoming his troubles if he gets the same support Ferguson received.

Ferguson's job as boss of the Red Devils was at risk when he relieved the pressure on himself with victory over a Crystal Palace side containing Pardew in the 1990 FA Cup final.

"I have great respect for David," said Pardew.

"But I remember the FA Cup final in 1990 when they scored with eight minutes to go. They got out of jail because we should have won.

"They stood by him [Ferguson]. David might have to have a year like that where it's touch and go but he'll come through it because he's a strong man."

 

One of the characteristics of Manchester United under Ferguson was the pressure they put on sides when behind but that, as Evans describes, was missing against Newcastle.

"Usually whenever we're chasing a goal at Old Trafford, especially at the Stretford End, we put teams under an enormous amount of pressure," said Evans.

"But with the lack of confidence and creativity we didn't produce that. It is hard to put your finger on it.

"We lacked a bit of sharpness in our passing and were sloppy in possession which allowed Newcastle to get control."

United only lost five league games in total on the way to winning last season's title and, despite the side's struggles during the current campaign, Evans has refused to rule out winning the Premier League crown.

"It's difficult [to win the league] in any season," he said. "The fact we've lost five games already makes it harder.

"But we won't give up. We are professionals. We want to keep going until the end.

"The most important thing is when we put the Manchester United shirt on and go out at Old Trafford or away from home, we make sure we give everything."

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25290304

[Wavant]

LOL @ the pic.

[Horatio Caine]

 

 

bwoii

[Gambino]

Deep. Gotta send that to my cousin. He was coming back from London on a Train yesterday when someone commit suicide under it and I joked if it was after the Final Whistle at Old Trafford.

[Flojo]

Lol I disagree with Kompressor's opinion but I love that there are people within the fan base that have his outlook, the worst/best thing is that there are probably loads like him who are perceived by others to be the rational thinkers whereas man like Agony who could see the obvious from early is seen as a gobshite.

Moyes isn't good enough for the job and I don't care how many transfer windows you give him I'm convinced he never will be.

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for him, he looks like he's aged about 6 years in 6 months.

#moyeseraforever

It's not even about being rational as opposed to the opposing side being irrational. I agree with most if what everyone else is saying. He's not good enough in the short term. I do however believe he could be in the long term.

The only issue is people seem content to put all the issues down to him without look at the whole picture. A picture that shows he hasn't helped himself in many ways granted but also that he hasn't been helped by the people who's job it is to make things easier for him.

I haven't come out in opposition to anyone stating how the tactics are bad and how his comments after and before games leave a lot to be desired,

The rumours about the training not working for certain players etc.

All I'm arguing is against the train of thought that he is THE problem. He is one of many problems that are coming home to roost right now.

Some of those other issues are integral to Moyes being appointed in the first place.

 

I see what you mean but for me I just don't see how he becomes better in the long term, the reason I think he's a bad fit for you is because of his mentality and I don't see how that changes over time.

 

What he said yesterday about knowing RVP needed to come off but deciding against it because he factored in what people would say was telling for me, he just doesn't have the self belief and confidence to operate at the very highest level. He's a plucky underdog type, akin to Roy Hodgson in that sense who is doing a fine job of bringing the expectations of England down to the ground.

 

To persevere with him for whatever reason is just going to compound the damage imo.

[TF S4DK]

Trust me the RvP was so peak, for everyone involved lol.

[Agony]

What part of Moyes' mediocre career shows that he could get things right in the long term?

Cause it's definitely not a trophy cabinet filled with medals as a player/coach/manager or a football philosophy that will work at the highest level in the modern game so I just wanna know what it is that I'm not seeing.

Yes Fergie, the board etc. should have taken that into consideration when the ruled out more suitable candidates and recommend Moyes but so should fans that think he's gonna keep this sinking ship afloat.

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Martinez in press conf: Everton "played even better" than against Man United. "We are over the mental block of playing big teams away"

6:29 PM - 8 Dec 2013

[Agony]

Meanwhile we're suffering from a mental block of consistently playing good football against any team home or away

#MoyesEra

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Monday marks an uncomfortable one-year anniversary that shines a light on Manchester United's strife. Twelve months after Sir Alex Ferguson's team dispatched Manchester City 3-2 at the Etihad Stadium to throw down a marker and move six points clear of the reigning champions, David Moyes's United side are closer to relegation than to the leaders Arsenal and in a dogfight for Champions League qualification.

 

The chief concern is the side's style of play and how this translates into results. United have become a touch slower, more sideways, and lack verve beyond Wayne Rooney, who was suspended for Saturday's 1-0 defeat by Newcastle United, and Robin van Persie, who is struggling for match fitness after a groin problem.

 

At full-back there is scant evidence of the marauding that marked Ferguson's teams, with Rafael da Silva down the right corridor against Alan Pardew's side producing one of his poorest offerings. On the opposing flank Patrice Evra is still reliable but is 32 and the word is that he harbours discontent at Moyes's ongoing admiration of Everton's Leighton Baines.

 

The fault lines continue into midfield and out wide. When Michael Carrick is injured, as he currently is, the quality deficit in central areas is a siren call warning that the failure to make a signing there in the previous window – when Cesc Fábregas and Ander Herrera were the targets – must not be repeated, whoever is pursued next month.

 

There is, though, a major caveat to all of this: these are the same players – minus Paul Scholes – who secured United's 20th title and who have been strengthened by the £27.5m arrival of Marouane Fellaini and Adnan Januzaj's emergence.

 

So how United have contrived to be 13 points behind Arsenal becomes the burning question. At the centre of a myriad of factors stands Moyes. The Scot is honest enough to know that whatever the travails of the summer transfer market and the "transition" continually pointed to, he is the man charged with being the firefighter

who should lead United forward.

 

After the defeat by Newcastle, Moyes fronted up to offer a mea culpa, saying it was down to him to find better displays from his squad.

 

Refusing to blame the players, he said: "The one thing they did from the off was to try to make it happen. They were all committed and trying to win the game but we lacked that final bit of quality at the end or the final pass in the final third or a little bit of luck if something had broken and gone in."

 

Yet the citing of ill-fortune for Yohan Cabaye's 61st-minute winner is hardly the United way. "They got that little bit of luck with Evra's header off the back of [Moussa] Sissoko's head that played him in and set up an opportunity. The last game or two we've just lacked that," Moyes said.

 

On arrival in July, Moyes cleared the backroom of Mike Phelan, Rene Meulensteen and Eric Steele, the Ferguson lieutenants trusted by the players, for his own staff of Steve Round, Phil Neville, Chris Woods and Jimmy Lumsden. Despite this not inconsiderable change and the Moyes transition mantra, a confusing contradiction comes in the assertion made by United's manager post-Newcastle that he has not altered much.

 

It all adds to the emerging picture of a Moyes whose thinking can be muddled on and off the field, as the fog that engulfed United after the departures of Ferguson and the chief executive, David Gill, begins to clear.

 

After Cabaye's finish, Moyes turned to two players who have hardly had a kick under him to try to win the game. Wilfried Zaha's career minutes for United totalled only 78 (in a Capital One Cup tie) before he was thrown on along with Anderson, who in six years at United has managed 70 league starts.

 

Why Moyes preferred Zaha, whose ability is yet to convince the staff, to Ashley Young, who was also on the bench, is a puzzle. With Fellaini and Carrick out through injury and Ryan Giggs rested, Moyes might have made a case for having little choice over bringing on Anderson.

 

Yet he insisted on praising the quality of the Brazilian – and Zaha – when saying: "I do think the squad has got the depth and that's why I played them. I felt that we've had a lot of games and those boys were worthy of inclusion and that's why we've involved them."

 

Saturday's defeat, the first by Newcastle on United's turf since 1972, followed Wednesday's 1-0 reverse to Everton, when the Merseyside club ended a 21-year wait for a triumph at Old Trafford. West Bromwich Albion's 2-1 victory in September ended a similar sequence that had stretched back to 1978.

 

One by one visiting teams' fears are tumbling as a realisation dawns that United have lost their aura and become just another average proposition. Where once a kind of hyperconfidence and alpha-male strut from United defeated teams before a ball was kicked in their cathedral, now Moyes's players view every opponent as a potential banana skin.

 

Jonny Evans accepts as much. "Obviously the lads have lost a bit of confidence," the defender said. "You can tell that with the possession and creativity. Usually whenever we're chasing a goal at Old Trafford, especially at the Stretford End, we put teams under an enormous amount of pressure but with the lack of confidence and creativity we didn't produce that. It is hard to put your finger on it. If you look back at the game, we lacked a bit of sharpness in our passing. We were sloppy in possession, which allowed Newcastle to get control."

[Kompressor]

Lol I disagree with Kompressor's opinion but I love that there are people within the fan base that have his outlook, the worst/best thing is that there are probably loads like him who are perceived by others to be the rational thinkers whereas man like Agony who could see the obvious from early is seen as a gobshite.

Moyes isn't good enough for the job and I don't care how many transfer windows you give him I'm convinced he never will be.

I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for him, he looks like he's aged about 6 years in 6 months.

#moyeseraforever

It's not even about being rational as opposed to the opposing side being irrational. I agree with most if what everyone else is saying. He's not good enough in the short term. I do however believe he could be in the long term.

The only issue is people seem content to put all the issues down to him without look at the whole picture. A picture that shows he hasn't helped himself in many ways granted but also that he hasn't been helped by the people who's job it is to make things easier for him.

I haven't come out in opposition to anyone stating how the tactics are bad and how his comments after and before games leave a lot to be desired,

The rumours about the training not working for certain players etc.

All I'm arguing is against the train of thought that he is THE problem. He is one of many problems that are coming home to roost right now.

Some of those other issues are integral to Moyes being appointed in the first place.

 

I see what you mean but for me I just don't see how he becomes better in the long term, the reason I think he's a bad fit for you is because of his mentality and I don't see how that changes over time.

 

What he said yesterday about knowing RVP needed to come off but deciding against it because he factored in what people would say was telling for me, he just doesn't have the self belief and confidence to operate at the very highest level. He's a plucky underdog type, akin to Roy Hodgson in that sense who is doing a fine job of bringing the expectations of England down to the ground.

 

To persevere with him for whatever reason is just going to compound the damage imo.

You knew this before he was appointed and have been saying things like this since then.

By that reckoning you are better equipped to choose the next manager of Manchester United.

Now the fact that a random Liverpool fan on a forum albeit a knowledgeable one has a better grasp on what type of manager should manage Manchester United is worrying.

Nobody thought with Moyes coming in that United were gonna win the league this season, some even thought its a 3/4 year rebuilding job. I want to know (we'll never find out) what the objectives of the board are, they're obviously to do better than what's going on now but how much so?

If Moyes was sacked 2moro who'd pick the replacement and has anyone got the confidence that the right man will be picked.

There must be a reason why this upper mid table manager, with his outlook and not a trophy to speak of was the "outstanding" candidate.

It's not even like Fergie picked him coz he was in Fergie's kliq.

[kerser]

Fergies coming back

[anelka]

Some of those Utd players did not want the ball on sat lol

 

carrick always shows for the ball

 

philip jones is a coward, always shy's away from it

 

anderson in that cameo showed why some utd fans still have hope, as he isn't afraid to pick up the ball from deep n carry it - problem with him is his quality on the ball can be erratic

 

Even though he's 24 soon, i still think cleverly can turn it around, look at ramsey - he needs to work hard though and recapture that vibrant, sharp, incisive, 1-2 touch play he had when he 1st came onto the scene

[Marly Mar]

Cleverly always gets exposed

 

rofl

[Horatio Caine]

Some of those Utd players did not want the ball on sat lol

 

carrick always shows for the ball

 

philip jones is a coward, always shy's away from it

 

anderson in that cameo showed why some utd fans still have hope, as he isn't afraid to pick up the ball from deep n carry it - problem with him is his quality on the ball can be erratic

 

Even though he's 24 soon, i still think cleverly can turn it around, look at ramsey - he needs to work hard though and recapture that vibrant, sharp, incisive, 1-2 touch play he had when he 1st came onto the scene

damn rite!, pos pos

 

ando better play next

[Kompressor]

Difference between Cleveley and Ramsey is one was hugely hampered by a big move and then a horrific injury, whilst the other has failed to impose himself fully in the weakest United Midfield in 20 years. Now is his time, he's has to take it.

Does anyone else watch/listen to Sunday supplement I listened to yesterday's this morning and the views on united were interesting,

[Wavant]

Some of those Utd players did not want the ball on sat lol

 

carrick always shows for the ball

 

philip jones is a coward, always shy's away from it

 

anderson in that cameo showed why some utd fans still have hope, as he isn't afraid to pick up the ball from deep n carry it - problem with him is his quality on the ball can be erratic

 

Even though he's 24 soon, i still think cleverly can turn it around, look at ramsey - he needs to work hard though and recapture that vibrant, sharp, incisive, 1-2 touch play he had when he 1st came onto the scene

 

He's 24 already.

 

I agree with you tho. 

[darkman]

Are man seriously comparing Cleverley and Ramsey????

 

Ramsey showed his class before his injury. Cleverley has never shown any as he doesn't have it

[darkman]

Cleverly come up as a winger tho that's the problem with relying on him as a central midfielder....

Defo a lot better then he is given credit for

Actually a whole bunch of united players are....

Playing 60mins every 3 games is no good to anyone

If they were at everton/newcastle playing week in week out the suction would be insane.

 

What players would there be suction for?

 

Some of those Utd players did not want the ball on sat lol

 

carrick always shows for the ball

 

philip jones is a coward, always shy's away from it

 

anderson in that cameo showed why some utd fans still have hope, as he isn't afraid to pick up the ball from deep n carry it - problem with him is his quality on the ball can be erratic

 

Even though he's 24 soon, i still think cleverly can turn it around, look at ramsey - he needs to work hard though and recapture that vibrant, sharp, incisive, 1-2 touch play he had when he 1st came onto the scene

 

Jones is a defender....

 

Anderson, Nani, Cleverley.. Moyes has to let go of this trash. I still can't get over giving Nani a 5 year contract

 

Fellani was an EPIC mistake