The Official Manchester United Thread

[WhiteTT]

[Young £]

 

Japanese football has really come alive over the last 5 or so years. What once was a country that produced an occasional top league player has seen Keisuke Honda, Shinji Kagawa, Yuto Nagatomo and many others become very well-known names within the footballing circles since 2010.

 

It is Kagawa who is the cream of the crop, a player who signed with Borussia Dortmund in 2010 as a virtual nobody for European football fans. In Japan he was known, having played for the national team already by that time. He took no time to win over the Borussia Dortmund faithful and soon whole footballing world followed.

 

His debut season was wonderful, but he is showing this season that he can take his game even further. His form in 2012 has been nothing short of fantastic and he has really been able to step up when Dortmund needed him during Mario Götze's injury.

 

Kagawa who'll turn 23 next month, is someone who most top clubs in Europe have their eye on and his situation at the moment is a bit complicated. He has announced that he wants to extend his deal lasting until 2013, but considering the fact that there is just a little more than a year remaining of his contract, Dortmund will have to take into account the possibility that some big team could make Kagawa change his mind and he might move in the summer.

 

 

Analysis of Kagawa's Performances:

 

2012 has been a great year for Kagawa and so were the three games I watched him play in. He started all those games as a central attacking midfielder behind Robert Lewandowski.

 

He seems to have a relative amount of freedom in the Jürgen Klopp team as he sometimes exchanges positions with Lewandowski even while at times also dropping deeper than the two central midfielders behind him. He also drifts freely from one side of the pitch to another.

 

He scored three goals in those games, including a double against Hoffenheim. His impressive performances made him the man of the match in my eyes in all of those games where he was clearly the most talented player on show.

 

Messi-esque dribbler

 

Kagawa is small player and this gives him an advantage when it comes to balance and he uses his this very well.

 

His dribbling and movement is very similar to Argentine superstar Leo Messi who he has also be compared with. He has shrugged off those comparisons himself, but they are not far off. He needs to show far more consistency, but in a single game he is very capable of being almost unplayable.

 

He is able to shrug off a lot of challenges, the ball sticks to his feet, he has a fast turn and his acceleration is superb, all those things apply even in the later stages of the game when you'd forgive him for being a bit tired.

 

It was this acceleration and brilliant close control that played a part in his goals. For his first goal against Hoffenheim, he left one defender for dead with a few steps in the box and for the goal against Leverkusen, he got the ball 25-30 yards from goal, sprinted past one defender and then stopped suddenly in the box to take out another defender before finishing with left foot.

 

Opponent defenders simply could not handle his acceleration as he constantly left them chasing shadows with or without the ball. He was always looking to get free and find as much free space as possible. His determination and work-rate also seems to confirm the stereotypes about hard-working and disciplined Japanese once again.

 

Coming back to physical side, the small stature does create a few problems. When he loses his concentration, he sometimes lets the defenders closer than he should and then he is weak against the incoming challenge. Playing in a league where defenders go through the back more often than in Germany could require some adapting time.

 

Another thing on the negative side is that he should challenge opponents with the ball more often. At times it is better that he chooses to stand off and look to block the passing opportunity, but there are moments when you'd want him to challenge for the ball and get closer to the opponent. He is fast enough to nick the ball away from an opponent if the opponent miscontrols the ball even slightly.

 

Good passing and vision

 

Kagawa is also an intelligent player. While he does an occasional dribble, he only does it when he has calculated the situation. You don't really see him trying to get through a wall of 3 players, in such a situation he calmly tries to find a way to pass the ball to someone, even if it means going back.

 

There were at least two occasions in the box where he had a ball in a reasonable shooting position but with lot of opponents ahead of him. Many players would have blocked their brain from receiving any new information and tried to get the shot away, but he calmly understood what was going around him and rather than trying to squeeze the ball through the tiniest crack in the wall of players ahead, he passed the ball to a completely free player who opponents had forgotten about as they all chased down Kagawa.

 

His passing is top quality, especially quick short passing. He is also capable of seeing and executing the more difficult passes. He played a few incredibly well-executed through balls that split the opponent defence and were also perfect for the players chasing them down as they could take the ball in their stride.

 

Kagawa is capable of playing with both his feet, but when dribbling he tends to use his right foot quite excessively. For his size, he also has good heading technique.

 

He might not jump very high, but he is not afraid to play with his head, giving precise flick-on's or heading down the ball perfectly for a team-mate.

 

Kagawa's constant movement and determination to get rid of defenders sees him get a lot of chances in the box and luckily for Dortmund, he is also a good shooter.

 

He doesn't have a rifle on his right, let alone left foot, but he gets his shots on target and doesn't snatch at them.

 

What level do I think he is:

 

I think Kagawa is a top class player who, in this time with top teams lacking quality, could walk into starting line-up of all teams expect the two Spanish giants. But even in there he wouldn't look out-of-place.

 

 

[Tee]

Lool basically the rest of the team are killing her m for assists

[Anderson]

Its fucjing criminal shinji not starting for us. Doesnt even get a look in most the time.

Absokutely infuriating

[Badman]

Good thing about Kagawa's crossing is that hes not just hoofing it or whipping it in aimlessly 

 

hes actually looking up and judging it intelligently 

[Tee]

Yet Moyes still don't give him a chance

Smh

[Benicio del Toney]

Just clocked why Toney don't fuck with Moyes

It's due to his treatment of Beckford

Makes sense now

 

lol

 

That is part of the reason I don't fuck with Moyes but there are more reasons than that.

 

I said he would bring back that late 80's shit and a man can only go through that once in life, I said I'm out.

[Wavant]

Out of what?

[Kompressor]

Question.

How often does everyone think Moyes and Fergie talk?

What do peoe think is discussed?

[darkman]

Why is Moyes giving more opportunities to an 18 year old kid than Kagawa?

[Flojo]

Question.

How often does everyone think Moyes and Fergie talk?

What do peoe think is discussed?

 

Bwoy, I bet there are some real awkward silences in those conversations.

[darkman]

Question.

How often does everyone think Moyes and Fergie talk?

What do peoe think is discussed?

 

I'm not sure what do you think?

[Kompressor]

 

Question.

How often does everyone think Moyes and Fergie talk?

What do peoe think is discussed?

 

Bwoy, I bet there are some real awkward silences in those conversations.

 

 

 

Would doubt it. 

[Kompressor]

 

Question.

How often does everyone think Moyes and Fergie talk?

What do peoe think is discussed?

 

I'm not sure what do you think?

 

 

 

No idea, what I would bet a fair amount on is that they're are in agreement with the majority of things they discuss. including, (for the most part) tactics. 

[Mame Biram Diouf]

I remember being partly happy/excited when Ferguson stepped down

 

Not out of ungratefulness of what he made us into and what he achieved with us

 

But because I was excited in a new manager coming in, new ethos, new philosophy, new players, revamp the way we treat youth players, just a new paradigm for Manchester United football club and no more Wayne Rooney

 

Someone like Pep to come in and bring through young players, improve ball retention, introduce tactics to the players, bring in new coaches from the continent to diversify the way we train and see football

 

Someone like Klopp to still allow us to be devastating when counter-attacking down the wings, but also modern enough to appreciate a #10, a flair player

 

Or someone young like a De Boer to imprint his ideology on us, to bring in players he has contacts with etc

 

Instead we sign someone who hasn't beaten a big team in 11 years, only uses the wings, only crosses, has never signed a really good striker and used him properly, whose most exciting flair signing irrc is probably Pienar, someone who hasn't played in Europe to have his weak tactics exposed, someone with archaic beliefs, someone with a loser mentality, the type of guy to not approach a girl because he thinks she is too good for him

 

This is literally Ferguson on steroids, at least Fergie recognised he was out of touch and kept a Rene or a Quieroz around him and signed players like Kagawa, Veron even if he failed to use them properly.

 

I don't even think we needed Mata, he is not the sort of direction I want us to go in, but 40mill later and we are stuck with him, I rate him highly and he is a sick player, he just doesnt fit with the fast, movement focused, position switching football I would like to see us play, I dont think Moyes singed him either, reckon it was a Roman type signing to keep fans happy till the summer and try squeeze us into 4th and they just told Moyes to use him wherever, just make sure he uses him

 

We easily now play the worst football in the league at a time when all of our rivals are being pro-active and employing managers/signing players who will allow them to be more competitive in Europe and allow them to play attacking and attracting football, we are still here, still playing 4-4-2, still starting players like Valencia and Young

 

It is just one big joke, we have become a joke in such a short space of time

 

Can anybody honestly see it changing? No amount of money or signings is going to have him switching up the only way he knows how to play football, he could sign Messi, Ronaldo and Ibra, it still wouldn't change the way he sees football

 

Surely this is one of the worst appointments of all time for a premiership club relative to their standing?

[Kompressor]

ok, guess the debate has progressed now then. 

 

With all you just said, ask yourself why he was chosen, I'm not 100% having Fergie wanted him so the club agreed instantly without a second thought. as that would mean the issues are deeper than anyone could've imagined. 

 

2nd question is anybody comfortable with the same people choosing a potential successor to Moyes?

 

before any managerial changes are made, fundamental changes need to happen at a higher level. I'm interested by the way other clubs do things, Liverpool's "transfer committee". The scouting networks other clubs employ. The efficient way in Gill used to work in the transfer market. see Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves deals.

 

In the late 80's Manchester United got on top of the game in this country by having their house in order. This meant working at a higher level at all levels. Liverpool who had dominated since the 70'S had slacked of and we were able to take full advantage. 

 

Now look at the way the clubs are run, apart from commercial strength, which due to obvious reasons hasn't been able to assist us in the transfer market and average attendances we have now fallen behind. Januzaj, Welbeck, Cleverly Evans and Fletcher are the youth prospects who have gone onto stake a real claim to be first teamers in how long. 

 

Scouting system is archaic and way way out of date and touch.

 

Our chief exec claimed he was shocked by the amount of agents who wanted a piece of the Herera deal and thus was put off. Last month he was seemingly to scared to negotiate head to head with Chelsea for a player who they were keen to sell.

 

Our manager who by all accounts is hands on and wants to spend most if not all of his time on the training pitch was apparently annoyed at the amount of extra duties he was due to do when he first took over. I.E cooperate hand shaking and wine tasting.

 

 

United have imo 3 years to get things right or we could start really falling behind. City are already catching up as a equal in drawing potential player wise. (due to the money) London will always be more of a draw, see Kluivert in 98. Chelsea have always tried to exploit this from the mid 90's

Madrid Barca and Bayern are on a different Planet, forget about them. or even comparing. the financial records for last season are a warning.

PSG...........

If Italian football rights itself....... Juventus.......

In the next few years I expect Arsenal to start making big moves and Spurs with a new stadium could also......

[The King]

Matthew Syed

Last updated February 12 2014 12:01AM

Moyes’s authority has been further undermined this week after Fulham’s late equaliser at Old Trafford

Times photographer, Bradley Ormesher

The drip-drip of dissent has been audible for some time. First, there were off-the-record briefings from senior players questioning the decision by David Moyes to dispense with Sir Alex Ferguson’s backroom staff (René Meulensteen, Mike Phelan and Eric Steele). Then there was the criticism by Rio Ferdinand that Moyes informs his players of team selections too close to match time.

A couple of weeks later, Nemanja Vidic revealed that he had decided to leave Old Trafford in the summer. Then Danny Welbeck hit back at gentle criticism by Moyes that he needs to spend more time on the training pitch. “I have been doing that [extra training] ever since I have been at United,” he said.

This week, the drips became a torrent. Javier Hernández, the striker, posted a not particularly cryptic message on Instagram, saying: “The time to talk about so many things will come soon . . . ” Hours later, Wilfried Zaha, who was loaned to Cardiff City last month after failing to make a single league start, posted a picture of himself and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, the Cardiff manager, on Instagram above the words: “Nothing like someone who believes in you.”

In his 1986 essay, The Anatomy of Mutiny, the American academic Robert A. Seeley evokes a truth that has long been understood by military generals: dissent has a tendency to become contagious. Referencing the famous mutiny of the French troops on the Chemin des Dames during the First World War, Seeley shows how whisperings of dissent on May 2, 1917, after a disastrous offensive slowly but inexorably led to the mutiny of half the French army.

“Ordered into battle, the 21st Division refused,” he writes. “The leaders were summarily shot or sent to Devil’s Island. Two days later, the 21st went into the line and was decimated. Rebellion spread. First the 120th Regiment refused to fight; then the 128th; then unit after unit refused duty, with more than 20,000 men deserting outright. The 119th Regiment mounted machineguns on its trucks, and attempted to reach the Schneider-Creusot works (a weapons factory), with the apparent intention of blowing it up. By June, 54 divisions had rebelled.”

Football is not war. Many of those who rebelled in the First World War feared for their lives, endured horrific conditions and had grave doubts about the legitimacy of a conflagration that had killed millions. But there is a central truth that links any situation in which success depends on some concept of authority: dissent creates its own kind of gravity. Football managers, like generals, fear the moment of critical mass when “whisperings” and “murmurings” shade into all-out rebellion.

We have seen this on dozens of occasions in top-flight sport. In October 2008, after a dire run of results, senior players approached the board of Tottenham Hotspur to demand the sacking of Juande Ramos, who had been hired by Daniel Levy only 360 days previously. The players (Ledley King, Jonathan Woodgate and Jermaine Jenas) said that the Spaniard had lost the confidence of those in the dressing room. Ramos was fired. This season, Sunderland players approached Margaret Byrne, the chief executive of the club, to tell her that the situation under Paolo Di Canio had become “untenable”. The Italian, at that point, was toast.

Moyes is a long way from the kind of revolt that has led to the sackings of many of his brethren. He was handed a six-year contract when he was appointed at Old Trafford and with Ferguson and Sir Bobby Charlton in the boardroom, two men who have a deeply held belief in managerial stability, he has time on his side. The United hierarchy will also be aware that the authority of Moyes will harden if results begin to improve. Power and success are intimately related in football, just as in other walks of life.

But the direction of causality operates both ways. Ferguson’s entire managerial career was a testament to the application of power. He knew that success could bolster the authority exerted in the dressing room (and, for that matter, the boardroom), but he also recognised that his capacity to deliver results depended on that authority. The speed with which he wielded the axe upon players such as Jaap Stam, David Beckham and Ruud van Nistelroy has often been hailed as evidence of ruthlessness. Yet it can also be seen as a razor-sharp appreciation that unless dissent (real or imagined) is crushed, it can create its own self-sustaining ecosystem.

The mutterings from outside the camp are to be expected for Moyes. Fans are posting increasingly disillusioned messages and opposition managers are beginning to sound slightly dismissive of the former Everton manager. Meulensteen, the Fulham head coach, claimed that United were “easy” to counter and that United’s game plan was “quite straightforward — get it wide, get it in”. Dan Burn, the Fulham centre half, said that he had not headed so many balls since he played non-League football for Darlington. United delivered 81 crosses against Fulham, only 18 of which found a team-mate.

But the dissent from within the walls of the dressing room is potentially the most perilous for Moyes., although he has time to turn things around. Ferguson had to deal with at least three incipient mutinies during his tenure at United and on each occasion he navigated his way safely to the other side. Moyes will be confident that results will improve in the coming weeks (they are unlikely to get much worse) and feels that he can rely on the backing of the board, at least for the time being.

Yet the wider problem for football managers is beyond dispute. Authority is an endlessly subtle and complex phenomenon. For a manager, who has to sustain a veneer of discipline in the context of trigger-happy owners, impatient fans and potentially mutinous players, the situation is particularly fraught. Moyes is canny enough to know that poor results and internal dissent have the capacity to feed off each other, with destabilising consequences. His response to the criticisms from within the dressing room is a challenge he cannot afford to mishandle.

[Kompressor]

Lets not forget a certain senior squad member letting the press in on team selections.....

[Lieutenant]

Mo money less trophies

#arsenalera

[Kompressor]

Wonder what Tampa bay buccaneer fans think about the way things are going. Deja vu comes to mind.

Disclaimer- dont think the same will happen here.
Football is to fickle to keep the profits strong despite failures.

For anybody interested.

@david_conn: Manchester United's Ed Woodward will be on a conference call with investors at 1pm UK time, streamed live here http://t.co/2FZwMgPZmK #mufc

 

Fans forum was last week, this one should be even more interested and could/should give a insight into how things will go over the summer.

[Kompressor]

In short,

They are still confident in hitting their targeted Revenues.

There's been around a 12% profit rise.

Wages have risen sugnificantly

Interestingly exec boxes completely sold out prior to the season started. (That should be something to look out for for next season. There will be investments in players over the summer. They wouldn't be drawn on specifics but mentioned that they "wernt afraid to invest at a higher rate than they had done in previous years" they said they were mindful of the dangers of too much change but that historically 3 in 3 out has been a historical pattern but that we might see more movement than that.

Expect to see a significant increase in wage expense.

They believe FFP will have an effect on certain teams over the next 5/6 months and more after that. Wouldn't be drawn out on which teams in particular.

Matchday revs.

Price freeze on season tickets most increases will come from exec areas. Will look to increase season ticket prices based on inflation. Due to the recession and supply and demand etc.

They don't think a lack of CL football will effect commercial dealings.

The long term strategy is to build a squad capable of performing and competing on all levels.

Give or take for a few small inaccuracies those were the highlights.

The next one in May should be fun, I expect them to announce the new kit deal strategically between now and then.

[Kompressor]

@david_conn: Manchester United's Ed Woodward will be on a conference call with investors at 1pm UK time, streamed live here http://t.co/2FZwMgPZmK #mufc

@david_conn: Really striking to listen to Manchester United, who wouldn't talk to supporters trust for years, answering qs of US investment banks. #mufc

[Mame Biram Diouf]

Gary Neville is confident beleaguered Manchester United manager David Moyes will be given the time he needs to make his mark at Old Trafford.

 

Moyes is coming under increasing pressure after being named as Sir Alex Ferguson's successor on a six-year contract in the summer, with United's Premier League title defence effectively over with the Red Devils now 16 points adrift of leaders Chelsea.

 

Even a top-four finish and a place in the UEFA Champions League could be beyond the Red Devils this term, with a nine-point gap to Liverpool needing to be overcome.

 

Moyes takes his team to title-hopefuls Arsenal on Wednesday night in the Premier League, where a further setback would only add to the criticism currently being aimed in the Scot's direction.

 

But former United defender Neville, who enjoyed great success in his playing days under Ferguson, believes the North West giants are not in the habit of making hasty decisions.

 

When asked if Moyes would stay on if United missed out on a Champions League berth, he told L'Equipe: "I prefer to talk about a club that is not like the others, with a different philosophy and that gives time to its managers.

 

"At Manchester United, hard work always pays off and David Moyes is working a lot.

 

"Before Alex Ferguson, Tommy Docherty, Dave Sexton and Ron Atkinson also had time. They always got full support.

 

"David Moyes deserves as much time as his predecessors. Manchester United is not Real Madrid or Chelsea, clubs that sack a manager who has won trophies.

 

"Manchester United is different and has to remain different and I will repeat that even if they don't qualify for the Champions League."

 

Moyes' relationship with the media is also coming under scrutiny, with his pre-match press conference prior to the Emirates trip lasting just three minutes.

 

Neville feels that the former Everton boss must adjust to being in the full glare of the spotlight now that he is at a club with the global reach and stature of United.

 

He added: "David Moyes also has to understand the full extent of the media coverage of Manchester United, which is completely different than Everton.

 

"The Manchester United manger is like a head of state - when he speaks, his words are broadcast all over the world in a few seconds.

 

"Manchester United is a monster that you need to tame. I have always believed the club would change David Moyes and not the other way round."

 

 

Sky need to ban Neville from all of our games from this day forward

 

Polluting the air